Getting ready for the freeze-Winterize

[urnmor]

One quick question on winterizing our 2012 FB Flying Cloud.

There is a small hose protruding from under the AS by the back access door. I believe I had closed the handle on the pipe on the inside of the access door and when I was adding antifreeze I notice the antifreeze coming out of it. Is that suppose to happen? It did not when I turnt the small the handle the other way on the pipe that is inside the access door.

Also do you leave the fresh water drain open or closed for the winter?

Thanks
John

[schafman46]

Hi Everyone,--I am definitely a "Newbie"---having just purchased a slightly used 2012 Flying Cloud 23FB from a dealer in the FL panhandle.----Travelled back up to Phila, PA where she resides in my side yard.
I am getting familiar with all the postings on the forum & youtube & have drained the system by opening up 2 lower underneath petcocks, & took plastic drain off hot water heater & opened the relief valve.---I opened sink & shower faucets at same time.--now it is time to "blow out" remaining water.
Here are some Q's:
1) what to do after I take off the internal water filter.
2) while at process & all valves are open, should I run hose thru system & reflush all tanks. They were all empty at last stop (gray & black.
3) I have DVD in DVD player & batteries are on, lights come on, but DVD does not.--I suppose I need electric?--I do not have a 20 amp converter plug (yet) --is that all I need?
4) And I guess I need 4 gallons of RV antifreeze & tubing /valve kit--where to buy?--Amazon?

[polarlyse]

You only need that much RVAF if that's the method you have chosen to winterize. Some of us simply blow the water from the lines using compressed air and then add the AF to the traps and toilet. Only if you choose to pump the AF through the system will you need the tubing and valve kit. For what it's worth I just blow the lines on my trailer. To answer your electrical question you are correct. You will need the 20a plug adapter to plug your trailer in. You will get no 120v power ( unless you have an onboard inverter) without it. I suggest that you do not attempt to run your AC or heat pump ( if equipped) unless you have 30a of service. All other functions of your trailer should work just fine.
If you choose to pump the antifreeze through you should remove your onboard water filter(s) with the intent of putting new filters in come spring. It is not recommended to run the AF through the filters if you plan to use them. Get the new ones now and have them ready to install. I have a whole house filter on mine and remove it after the winterization process and will install a new one come our winter travels. I have read that opening the low point drains will fully evacuate the water from the system but I choose to use an air compressor. Don't forget to blow the black tank flush also. I forgot to do mine yesterday so will need to get it done. OH, and don't forget the exterior shower if equipped. Not rocket science but a simple step-by-step process.

[john hd]

Hey All,

Happy to see this thread still kicking around 11 years later!

Take care!

john

[richarus]

I saw where camp world has a fitting with a drain valve to replace the water heater plug. This seems like a good idea. Anybody try it? Any downside?

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by richarus

I saw where camp world has a fitting with a drain valve to replace the water heater plug. This seems like a good idea. Anybody try it? Any downside?

I just installed one last week on my Interstate. Can be difficult to install in a 6-gallon Atwood because you can't put a socket on it to screw it in, and there's not much room to swing an open-end wrench without removing the shield first.

But once it's in, it works fine. Definitely need thread tape to make sure it doesn't leak, though.

[Gene]

I installed it a couple of years ago. True, the space is small and sharp edges can cut you. I finished tightening with a channel lock wrench. Much easier to drain the water heater, but you can still cut yourself.

Gene

[jcanavera]

WhIle a valve would be nice, I consider the fact that I only pull this once a year. One of the advantages of pulling the entire plug out is that you can get any sediment out. This sediment is part of the problem of why heaters deteriate over time. In addition I use this tool to scour the insides of my tank. All the sedimentation stuck on the tank walls can be scoured off. I've never had to replace a water heater tank which I attribute to keeping the insides clean. Here's a link to the device. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...k-rinser/49070

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

WhIle a valve would be nice, I consider the fact that I only pull this once a year. One of the advantages of pulling the entire plug out is that you can get any sediment out. This sediment is part of the problem of why heaters deteriate over time. In addition I use this tool to scour the insides of my tank. All the sedimentation stuck on the tank walls can be scoured off. I've never had to replace a water heater tank which I attribute to keeping the insides clean. Here's a link to the device. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...k-rinser/49070

Water never goes into my water heater without being filtered first, and I never leave the plug out (before) or the valve open (now) long enough for anything else to make its way in.

But just to be sure, the first time I hook up to municipal water (through a filter) after un-winterizing, I leave the valve open for a while and let some of the new water run out of the water heater through the drain before closing the drain to let the heater fill, thus washing out any accumulated sediment in the process.

[Gene]

Every year when winterizing or summerizing, I wonder how much water is left in the tank and whether sediment has collected there. The owner's manual says some water remains in the tank regardless of what you do short of sucking it out. Since there's plenty of expansion room, freezing the remaining water is not a problem.

I try to flush all the stuff out of the bottom (it doesn't matter whether you have a valve or a plug for that), but I can't tell what is on the bottom without buying a TV camera on a probe. I don't think sediment will damage the tank, but water eventually will. I don't recall a sacrificial anode and that would be the best way to save the tank, or use only an electric water heater (if you have duel fuel, use only the electric option). Electric heaters don't corrode as quickly. I too filter the water, but the filters are rated at 2-5 microns (how can you be 2 to 5, that makes no sense) and smaller stuff may be a problem, but the main reason to filter is to eliminate bacteria.

I don't know if there is an anode available for these water heaters—maybe I should look.

Breaking news! I looked and they are sold on Amazon for $11-12. It looks like they screw into the drain plug hole meaning you can't have a valve there too. One way or the other, it is a conspiracy to cut my hand every year. Maybe I'll order one.

Gene

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Water never goes into my water heater without being filtered first, and I never leave the plug out (before) or the valve open (now) long enough for anything else to make its way in.



But just to be sure, the first time I hook up to municipal water (through a filter) after un-winterizing, I leave the valve open for a while and let some of the new water run out of the water heater through the drain before closing the drain to let the heater fill, thus washing out any accumulated sediment in the process.

Unfortunately the sediment is caused by the minerals suspended in the water. Unless you have soft water, that content builds up over time. Much like the film that builds up in a pot that heats water. Usually it forms on the surface that is present to high heat. That would be the area of the tank most exposed to the heat from the flame. If you have a dual fuel tank like I do, it usually forms on the heating rod in the tank. In either case that mineral content reduces heat transfer to the water. I can't attest to the viability of the Atwood tanks over the years, but I've seen that white scale exit my drain when I use the scour tool. Most residential water heaters develop leaks over the years due to the corrosive properties and build up of these deposits. The amount of this in your water heater is proportional to your use of the trailer and the hardness of the water at the campground and how much the heater cycles. Some of these deposits when they build up and flake may not pass through small valves hence negating the effectiveness of draining through them.

Jack

[Gene]

A lot of sediment will be trapped by a filter in the hose you use to fill the tank or the city water connection. Not all, but it helps. The filter will also catch giardia (the filter is good to 5 microns, giardia is 6), something that may be in campground water.

You can't get every bit of sediment with the cheap water filters available, but you can reduce the exposure significantly.

Gene

[RickStream]

After twelve years this thread is still going strong. Last Winter my toilet valve did suffer damage due to some very disagreable RV fluid from a box store (left a small amount of fluid in the bowl). After setting through the Winter the plastic on the valve blistered and damaged the seal causing system to leak this season. Now I do not put any fluid in the bowl, however, ensure the seal has some type of conditioner to prevent it from becoming stiff. The repair was about $50 and the valve was replaced by myself.

[1965 mustang]

Originally Posted by RickStream

After twelve years this thread is still going strong. Last Winter my toilet valve did suffer damage due to some very disagreable RV fluid from a box store (left a small amount of fluid in the bowl). After setting through the Winter the plastic on the valve blistered and damaged the seal causing system to leak this season. Now I do not put any fluid in the bowl, however, ensure the seal has some type of conditioner to prevent it from becoming stiff. The repair was about $50 and the valve was replaced by myself.

Hmmm, I put antifreeze in the bowl. What conditioner is recommended for the seal?



Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[PKI]

First ever winterize done. Maybe?

You all are encouraged to laugh, but please wait til my back is turned.

First, toilet bowl - Someone said they used vegetable oil to condition the toilet seal. That's the last thing I have to do, so thanks for asking.

Drained all the tanks and opened low point drains.
Drained the hot water tank. Thanks for the open PRV suggestion and warning about the door hitting the handle.
Tried to blow out the water with our tire inflator. It was slow, but moved some water.
Forgot to do the shower and the outside shower. Was uncomfortable about the compressor I used. Getting 35psi seemed low.
Purchased a Sears oil-free compressor. It is the size of a fat brief case, has an internal regulator, and ets up to pressure fast. Ran it up to about 50psi and guess what, more water.
Then we opened the galley sink faucet, opened the bathroom sink faucet, closed the galley faucet, opened the shower, closed the bath sink, opened the shower inside and out, and thought we were done.
Went back to read what process others were using and realized we needed to open the hot water circuits too.
Got all those blown out.
Then we added antifreeze to the black and all the grey water traps.
Went back and read a post by Pro that suggested the tank freshener chems, water, and antifreeze would turn to goop. Got to use only antifreeze!
So we dumped the tanks again.
OK, so now we are back to the toilet bowl conditioner to do.
A little unsure about the fresh water side and tank, so got to validate it.
I think we got it. But if we didn't, we get to practice this all again after each winter camping trip.

Thank you all for the information and tips you provided. Pat

[Gene]

PKI, did you blow out the kitchen sink sprayer and fill it with antifreeze? The toilet cold water line? There are lots of details, but after a few winters it gets easier. I set the compressor to about 60 lbs. and that has worked fine.

The antifreeze won't turn to goop (unless you mix it with something else that reacts with it). Of course, if it gets very, very cold, antifreeze can freeze, but I doubt that would occur until it was lower than -50˚, something you won't see in Cal.

I just put a half cup or even less of antifreeze in the toilet and the seal has been fine for 8 years. You can better lubricate the seal by letting a little bit of antifreeze through and letting it close right away. Same with the black and grey water tank drain valves—some antifreeze will get in to the tanks when you fill the traps and you can add more by adding more in the kitchen sink and toilet. Letting some out at the drains briefly will lubricate those valves too.

There are products to lubricate the black and grey tank valves, but I only use those during the travel season because I am guessing mixing that and antifreeze may reduce the efficiency of both. You don't need antifreeze in those tanks anyway as a few gallons of water in either will not harm them in the winter—if they were full it would, but a few gallons will not expand enough to matter. Same for the water heater tank—a gallon or two of water is not a problem so long as you don't leave it full. It is good to flush the water heater as best you can because minerals collect in the bottom of the tank over time. Water lines with water in low spots can expand enough while freezing to split the water line, so they and the faucets, sprayer and toilet valves are the important ones to blow out and run some antifreeze through. Copper, PVC and CPVC pipes split easily, but the PEX used in recent years is much more forgiving.

Living in cold winter climates makes it easier to know how to do this. I learned a lot about freezing water and sewer lines my first winter in Colorado when temps dropped to -30˚ F each night for weeks in December. It was so cold under the cabin that the shut off valve blew off the water supply line exposed in the crawl space because the heat tape had failed. The cold water flowing over the exposed sewer line caused that to freeze too so when I got water back, the sewer was frozen and I had to run hot water down it gradually to break through the ice (urine is good too as it is 98.6˚ when it exits). This is the kind of problem that can lead to excessive drinking as well as increased urine production.

Gene

[PKI]

Gene

No antifreeze in the water lines - Just blew them all out. Yes, Kitchen sprayer blown out. Outside shower, kitchen sink (hot and cold), Bathroom sink (hot and cold), Shower (hot and cold), toilet flush, and low water drains all blown out. The fresh water tank, grey water tank, and black water tank, all dumped. And finally figured how to get into the pump compartment. Did pour antifreeze into the traps. A bit extra in black and grey side so there would be enough to cover the dump valves. Believe we got it. Hope we got it. Temps dropping to 25 tonight, but Glimmer is parked inside, which should buffer the heat loss. Would be worried if we were seeing 24/7 freezing temps, but daytime temps get above 50 so there is a reheat cycle in play.

And we'll check on her soon. Concern is the battery bank. Charged it full before storage and activated the storage isolation circuit, but expect parasitic load is high enough to pull down the bank. The batteries and an isolation switch may be an upgrade we have to address.

No worry about chem mix. Dumped that on second pass on the blow down.

Thanks for the info on the seal lube.

Not to sure if I'm up to the drinking solution to drive black tank defrost.

Holiday cheers to you and all. Pat

[urnmor]

I went to drain my hot water heater however I am unable to unscrew the plastic drain plug. I am not sure if it is cross threaded or Just hard to turn. I have been using a cresent wrench but it keeps slipping. I am concern that I might round the top. Any suggestions on how to loosen it? Thanks

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by urnmor

I went to drain my hot water heater however I am unable to unscrew the plastic drain plug. I am not sure if it is cross threaded or Just hard to turn. I have been using a cresent wrench but it keeps slipping. I am concern that I might round the top. Any suggestions on how to loosen it? Thanks

Do you usually use a crescent wrench? I use a shallow socket (I think 15/16th but I don't recall right now...) with an extension to make it past all the "guts".

[urnmor]

I believe I have always used a crescent however i will look to see if I have a 15/16 socket and will try that.Thanks for the advice.