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01-17-2022, 10:00 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
2019 19' Tommy Bahama
MILBRIDGE
, ME
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
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Antifreeze question and concerns
Hello all in AS land....
I have a question regarding RV antifreeze. I live on the coast of Maine, in a fairly rural area. I store my AS outside, as I do not have a garage big enough for inside storage. As you can imagine, I winterized my AS this fall. I blew out as much water from the lines as I could with a compressor, and then pumped pink RV/marine antifreeze through all the lines, and poured a healthy amount down the drains and into the toilet bowl.
We have had some pretty cold weather here, even for Maine, with some nightly lows in the single digits (all temps are Fahrenheit), and even a couple below zero. The lowest temp at my house has been -3 so far.
This morning, the temps rose slightly above freezing for the first time in several days, so I decided to check out the interior of the AS, as I knew the door seal would not be frozen shut. I checked out the antifreeze in the toilet bowl, and it was frozen solid. I had some leftover antifreeze stored in my unheated garage, so I looked at the label, which says that it protects against bursting to -50 degrees! The antifreeze in the plastic jug was slushy, but not solid. So, what's going on? Any advice would be welcome. This is my first winter storing the AS outside, so it's my first experience with winterizing.
Thanks.
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01-17-2022, 10:22 AM
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#2
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 6,171
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The pink antifreeze should properly be called 'anti burst' not antifreeze.
Water freezes at about 32F and will begin expanding, thus causing all sorts of damage. Liquids like the pink antifreeze will also become solid, but they have a big difference. They don't expand until they reach the temperature on the label.
I use the -75F pink stuff. It certainly turns to a solid at about 32F. But, it doesn't expand so it will not cause any damage.
The antifreeze used in automotive applications is specifically designed to stay liquid till the temp on the label. Since you may need to start/run an engine in the winter, it is vital that the coolant be able to flow through the pumps and all the orifices of the engine. An RV doesn't have needs like that - we don't usually ask our water pumps to function when they are below 32F so it doesn't matter if the stuff turns solid. It only matters that it doesn't expand.
Making a food-safe antifreeze that truly doesn't freeze would be much more expensive than just making stuff that doesn't expand, and that's why we use what we use.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 'Gertie' Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8 'Bert'
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser 'The Bus' (Sold)
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01-20-2022, 08:16 AM
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#3
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1 Rivet Member
2019 19' Tommy Bahama
MILBRIDGE
, ME
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
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Antifreeze question and concern
To richard 5933:
Thanks very much for the concise and kind reply. It makes perfects sense, now that it's been explained. I had no idea that it is really "anti burst" antifreeze. Thanks again for putting my mind at ease.
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01-20-2022, 08:48 AM
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#4
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4 Rivet Member
2020 25' Globetrotter
Hillsdale
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 326
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Very interesting.
SPP
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01-20-2022, 06:06 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron P
[...snip, snip] I checked out the antifreeze in the toilet bowl, and it was frozen solid.
Thanks.
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My first winter with our AS I put RV antifreeze in the bowl. When I cleaned out the RV antifreeze for summer I found the rubber toilet gasket to be warped, causing a slow leak in the bowl. As summer wore on the gasket corrected itself and all was fine. The second winter, and afterward, I used Oatey's Plumber's silicone on the seal, nothing in the bowl. No problems since then, 7 years now. We just went on a trip for 2 weeks after the AS had been sitting for 2+ years and the toilet worked just fine, no gasket leak.
Others have used other products, some use RV antifreeze, but the Oatey's product (Lowes, Home Depot) states that it's safe for all rubber and plastic seals. Good stuff.
__________________
-Rich
Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE 4.7L V8
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01-20-2022, 07:48 PM
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#6
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 6,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich W
My first winter with our AS I put RV antifreeze in the bowl. When I cleaned out the RV antifreeze for summer I found the rubber toilet gasket to be warped, causing a slow leak in the bowl. As summer wore on the gasket corrected itself and all was fine. The second winter, and afterward, I used Oatey's Plumber's silicone on the seal, nothing in the bowl. No problems since then, 7 years now. We just went on a trip for 2 weeks after the AS had been sitting for 2+ years and the toilet worked just fine, no gasket leak.
Others have used other products, some use RV antifreeze, but the Oatey's product (Lowes, Home Depot) states that it's safe for all rubber and plastic seals. Good stuff.
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Good point - not all RV antifreeze is the same, and some contains an alcohol which will degrade rubber products/seals/plumbing parts over time. I always search out the kind without the alcohol to hopefully avoid problem like this.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 'Gertie' Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8 'Bert'
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser 'The Bus' (Sold)
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01-21-2022, 09:06 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard5933
Good point - not all RV antifreeze is the same, and some contains an alcohol which will degrade rubber products/seals/plumbing parts over time. I always search out the kind without the alcohol to hopefully avoid problem like this.
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I just don't put AF in the toilet to winterize. I dry out the bowl and put the Oatey's silicone on the rubber gasket. I don't have to worry about evaporation, a warped seal or AF sloshing out of the bowl if I'm traveling after winterizing. Two years sitting idle and no issues. For me (YMMV) the silicone is a simple solution.
__________________
-Rich
Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE 4.7L V8
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09-27-2024, 07:58 AM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
2020 25' Globetrotter
Hillsdale
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard5933
Good point - not all RV antifreeze is the same, and some contains an alcohol which will degrade rubber products/seals/plumbing parts over time. I always search out the kind without the alcohol to hopefully avoid problem like this.
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Looking for the safe, non-alcohol (and non-ethanol????) antifreeze.
Can anybody put up a link for which ones are best ?
SPP
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09-27-2024, 03:48 PM
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#9
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Ready-to-Travel
2012 30' International
Walkerton
, Virginia
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,189
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RV antifreeze is marked on the label. Non-toxic, made for potable systems.
Pat
__________________
--------------------------------------
Somebody, please, point me to the road.
AIR 3987
TAC VA-2
WBCCI 4596
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09-27-2024, 07:04 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
2020 25' Globetrotter
Hillsdale
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmclemore
RV antifreeze is marked on the label. Non-toxic, made for potable systems.
Pat
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Yup... I know this.
Looking specifically for RV Antifreeze that does not contain alcohol, as discussed above and not wanting to damage rubber seals, etc.
SPP
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09-27-2024, 07:45 PM
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#11
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4 Rivet Member
2023 25' International
Long Island
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 340
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Hi SPP,
Ive used Prime Guard and Splash, both with good results. Both sold at Home Depot. Just watch the ingredients on the labels. They both have an alcohol version and a propylene glycol version. This year Im branching out using West Marine. Wish me luck.
__________________
2023 Airstream International 25RBT
2019 F250 XLT 6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
14457
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09-27-2024, 10:55 PM
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#12
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 6,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowPokePete
Looking for the safe, non-alcohol (and non-ethanol????) antifreeze.
Can anybody put up a link for which ones are best ?
SPP
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I use the Splash -75F product sold at Menards. It's a bit more expensive but in my opinion worth it.
The cheaper stuff you see all over the place is often the alcohol-based product.
You can read the MSDS on all these products if you want to see what's in them.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 'Gertie' Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8 'Bert'
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser 'The Bus' (Sold)
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09-29-2024, 06:33 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1987 25' Sovereign
Fort Collins
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
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I've never put antifreeze in the lines after blowing them out thoroughly. Just a bit in the black and gray tanks through the toilet and traps. No problems regardless of temps well below zero.
__________________
Alumacoot
“We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.”
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10-10-2024, 05:54 PM
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#14
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Maxine-A
2019 25' International
Tacoma
, Washington
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 81
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Ethanol Free Antifreeze
Last year I used Starbright's Winter Safe Antifreeze in my AS traps, and finding it has been quite a task this year. I went to West Marine, mentioned in a previous post in this thread, and located 1 gallon that they had remaining in inventory from last year. Staff in the store mentioned that he thought that their West Marine brand was the same fluid, so I picked up one of each at the same price.
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10-11-2024, 05:49 AM
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#15
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4 Rivet Member
2021 25' Flying Cloud
Fredericktown
, Ohio
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 410
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Lot's of great advice in this thread. Before we had our indoor, heated barndominium storage we used Prestone RV/Waterline Antifreeze, https://prestone.com/product/preston...ne-antifreeze/. Good to -100. Never had any damage to our PEX piping, PVC traps, black or grey tank valves, or freezing in the toilet. This product was easy to flush out and the stains washed off of the sink and shower surfaces. It is more expensive than most but we only needed 3 gallons to do the whole rig. We did blow out all the lines prior to using the pickup tube to pump it through the water system.
__________________
Todd Mizer
2021 25' FBT Flying Cloud
Ford F-250 6.7L
WBCCI #6826
We have Year-Round Courtesy Parking.
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