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cbburke · 10-21-2018, 01:05 PM

FWIW,
Our dealership winterized several hundred RV's a year in Idaho using the following procedure for pre Alde systems. And we guaranteed it.

Opened the WH drain plug/valve.

Applied up to 60psi air pressure to the city water inlet.
Allowed air pressure to scavenge the mineral residue out of the WH tank.

Removed Air.

Bypassed the water heater.
Reapplied Air.
Starting with the furthest away faucet open and allow air to clear the line. Progress back through the remaining faucet/valves including the toilet valve and sprayer. Including the outside shower where used. Helps to have a rag to cover the faucet to reduce splatter.

Remove Air pressure from city water inlet and apply briefly to sewer flush where present.
Locate and connect to the water pump draw side with a 90 deg 1/2" pipe to 1/2" hose fitting with a 3' long hose. May be on the pump, may be nearby.
Put the open end of the hose in a jug of RV antifreeze. Turn on the pump.

Starting with the furthest away faucet open first the hot and then the cold side until the flow is steady pink. This first run will take nearly all the contents of the jug. Change to second jug before continuing. Typically takes 1 and 1/2 gallons to do the job.
In succession go through the remaining faucet/valves including the toilet valve and sprayer, finish with the outside shower if it applies. Insure the outside shower valves are firmly closed when done.

Insure the fresh/gray and black tanks are drained.

We used/guaranteed this procedure for over 10 years and never had a comeback.

Charlie

kpm · 10-21-2018, 01:31 PM

No all antifreeze mixtures aren’t the same. You want RV antifreeze with propylene glycol and water only. No alcohol, which can damage rubber seals. I buy mine from Napa auto parts.

**azflycaster** · 10-21-2018, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpm

No all antifreeze mixtures aren’t the same. You want RV antifreeze with propylene glycol and water only. No alcohol, which can damage rubber seals. I buy mine from Napa auto parts.

If alcohol can damage rubber seals, are the people using vodka to winterize their trailer causing damage to the seals?

ROBERT CROSS · 10-21-2018, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azflycaster

If alcohol can damage rubber seals, are the people using vodka to winterize their trailer causing damage to the seals?

No damage at all, think liver. 🤪

Bob
🇺🇸

uncle_bob · 10-21-2018, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

No damage at all, think liver. ��

Bob
��

Hi

You didn't get issued the vodka proof version ?

Some alcohols can damage some rubbers. Rubber also wears out over time. Does this gasket on that year toilet have this or that rubber in it? .... who knows. If it does have rubber XYZ is it bothered by ethanol or only by methanol? Once you are sure it's XYZ without any protective additives you could research that. Way to many variables to make a blanket statement either way.

Neoprene, EPDM, and Butyl are all perfectly happy with ethanol. Polyurethane and Vitron ... not so much.

Bob

steelbird312 · 10-21-2018, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbburke

FWIW,
Our dealership winterized several hundred RV's a year in Idaho using the following procedure for pre Alde systems. And we guaranteed it......
We used/guaranteed this procedure for over 10 years and never had a comeback.

Charlie, my procedure exactly, and my results have been the same. My business isn't the same as yours, however: rolleyes:

Simply proficient! Thanks,
jerry

Kmdee · 10-21-2018, 04:13 PM

Simple antifreeze testers are available from most autoparts stores. If you wish to use less toxic antifreeze you can go to your nearest discount liquor store and buy a sufficient quantity of vodka. Vodka will not freeze and can be used and will not hurt pump seals, impellers or elements in water heaters.
Using Vodka also has some benefits in that when you run your water system to insure distribution throughout, have a tumbler ready to catch the outflow. This can make winterizing fun! When you de-winterize its a party!
The other benefit is that a gallon of cheap vodka is only slightly more than the "RV antifreeze" which often has a copious amount of alcohol too. Cheers from Alaska

Adventure.AS · 10-21-2018, 04:30 PM

If you choose to winterize using RV antifreeze (or vodka) blow the lines out immediately. The antifreeze does not need to remain in the plumbing. This procedure will stop any discolouration of plastic fixtures, harm to seals etc. and make de-winterizing in the spring a breeze. Collect the antifreeze as it is blown out of the lines and use it in the traps.

AtomicNo13 · 10-21-2018, 04:42 PM

Ive been using bottom shelf vodka to winterize AS, boats, and remote location dwellings for decades. Never had a problem, and no bad aftertaste in the spring (other than being cheap vodka).

I simply drain, then suck vodka through the system.

Silvr_Bullet · 10-22-2018, 08:29 AM

90 proof alcohol is 45 percent alcohol 55 percent some other liquid ( water ) anyone know what the freeze point is for that?

uncle_bob · 10-22-2018, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

If you choose to winterize using RV antifreeze (or vodka) blow the lines out immediately. The antifreeze does not need to remain in the plumbing. This procedure will stop any discolouration of plastic fixtures, harm to seals etc. and make de-winterizing in the spring a breeze. Collect the antifreeze as it is blown out of the lines and use it in the traps.

Hi

80 proof Vodka will freeze at -17F / -27C. That assumes it does not have anything else in it to lower things still further (which is a pretty good bet). Depending on where you are, that may or may not be good enough. If there is water left in the lines (so it gets diluted) or if some ethanol evaporates it's going to freeze at a bit warmer temperature.

One trick with vodka - add some food coloring to it. That way you can tell when you have vodka running out of the faucet rather than just "who knows what". Yes a shot glass also would allow you to test the concentration ..... that probably gets a bit interesting after the first few tests .... Either way, you do want to know that you have pushed the water out of the lines before you stop pumping the stuff.

Bob

**azflycaster** · 10-22-2018, 08:32 AM

From google:

All 80 proof vodka freezes at a temperature of -24 degrees Celsius(-11,2 degrees Fahrenheit).

Silvr_Bullet · 10-22-2018, 08:34 AM

Well explained Bob.

uncle_bob · 10-23-2018, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azflycaster

From google:

All 80 proof vodka freezes at a temperature of -24 degrees Celsius(-11,2 degrees Fahrenheit).

Hi

The data I mentioned also came from Mr Google. One would *think* there would be a single number .... why not? Well, it forms a sort of weird slush as it freezes. Exactly when that is considered "frozen" depends on just what your criteria happen to be. Anti-freeze does the same sort of slush kind of thing as it freezes, you see a spread of numbers for it as well.

Bob

Caffeinated · 10-23-2018, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbburke

FWIW,
Our dealership winterized several hundred RV's a year in Idaho using the following procedure for pre Alde systems. And we guaranteed it......
We used/guaranteed this procedure for over 10 years and never had a comeback.

Charlie, my procedure exactly, and my results have been the same. My business isn't the same as yours, however: rolleyes:

Simply proficient! Thanks,
jerry

This is the "belt and suspenders" method that I use. I have had no issues with freezing or off taste in the spring. And I'm a snob about my morning coffee. If it ain't broke...

Mike

Silvertwinkie · 10-23-2018, 11:00 AM

Just wanted to point out one thing:

My pump's cut off switch per the label affixed to it is 65psi. I am assuming that lower PSI will work and clearly don't advocate pushing 65psi of air through the water system, but I have pushed between 45-50psi for about 15 years now with no ill effects. I would think you would not want lower than 40 psi, but the end result is that higher PSI gets a lot of the water residue blown out, but at the end of the day the lower PSI will lower the trapped water in the lines.

Just remember to blow out the low end valves!

mbrownao24 · 10-23-2018, 08:09 PM

I just used that method for the first time on our 2016 Classic. I added 2 gallons RV antifreeze to the empty fresh water tank but it wasn’t enough to reach the pump intake. I ended up adding a total of 5 gallons and then only by raising the hitch to tip the tank I finally was able to pump the stuff through the system. What a pain. I will have to add and pump lots of water through it when we get to our annual camp in Florida. It may be awhile before we can use that fresh tank but I will have 4 months of sun this winter to get it clean again. Thanks for the thread. It got to me just as I was beginning my plan.

Rzrbrn · 10-24-2018, 03:25 AM

Thanks for posting this thread and to everyone who has replied. I have been using RV Antifreeze from...a BIG box store...which has ethyl alcohol in it, and did not know the downside to this method (related to seals and gaskets), until I read it here. I just dump a few gallons in the fresh water tank and pump it throughout the system. I live in Middle TN. I don't drink from the faucets, we carry bottled water. I do sanitize each spring, all of which results in a smell to the water. Not real pleased with this method. Next year I will try the Vodka Solution

.

uncle_bob · 10-24-2018, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Just wanted to point out one thing:

My pump's cut off switch per the label affixed to it is 65psi. I am assuming that lower PSI will work and clearly don't advocate pushing 65psi of air through the water system, but I have pushed between 45-50psi for about 15 years now with no ill effects. I would think you would not want lower than 40 psi, but the end result is that higher PSI gets a lot of the water residue blown out, but at the end of the day the lower PSI will lower the trapped water in the lines.

Just remember to blow out the low end valves!

Hi

A lot depends on where your compressor is and how big the hose between the compressor and trailer is. In a lot of cases, even a pretty big compressor can't deliver 60 PSI to the trailer once a faucet is open. There simply are too many CFM flowing for it to keep up at that pressure level.

Indeed, if your compressor is wired into a 50A 240V circuit, you may be able to get some pretty amazing CFM out of it. In a big shop, that may indeed be what they have. Even then, the question of drop in the pipes likely limits what they can do.

At least on my trailer the on/off/on/off approach with pressure building between cycles gets pretty old pretty fast. Running things continuously seems to be a needed part of the process. Yes, cycling is part of it as well. I suspect I'm a bit more compulsive than many about just what constitutes "dry" when blowing out lines ....

Bob

Silvertwinkie · 10-24-2018, 09:01 AM

It's easy to overthink winter storage. When I first started RVing, I would empty the low drains, and pump RV anti-freeze throughout the water supply system. I'd put some in the fresh tank, some would get into the water heater and I slept well knowing that upwards of -50 I was good to go...and I'm far enough north where it's an issue.

As I got more seasoned, I realized that the issue is not freezing, it's expansion. Getting a water pipe and tank as close to empty as possible is all you really need to do, and blowing out the lines is the best way to do it so that any accumulation is not absolute in the pipe, tank or fixture which can allow some expansion without creating damage. Once done correctly, there isn't any place in the supply system that has enough water to freeze to the point where it will expand to break a pipe, faucet or appliance. Even if you had a few gallons of water in the tank, as long as it was not by the fresh dump valve or any other lines, there is ample room for expansion. I leave my fresh dump valve open so any residual accumulating water is removed. I'm positive there is prob at least between a 1/2 gallon to a gallon in my fresh tank over the winter, but it's not at the valve or supply lines, just a bit resting at the bottom of the tank, with no antifreeze placed inside. When I use to put it in the fresh tank, I would take forever to get that taste out of the system. No longer an issue.

I went from about 5-6 gallons of RV anti-freeze down to 2.

I still pour liberal amounts in the p-traps, I connect the pump to get a few pints into the pump assembly since I can't blow that out from the city water connection and dump a pint or two into the gray and black tanks (after final dump), mostly because it keeps the dump seals "moist". For 15 years, that's what I've done and never had an issue, even when we got hit with that polar vortex a few years back when we hit double digit below zero.

In the end you have to do what you feel comfy with, I'm simply sharing some of my exp that you may find could save you time and money.