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Old 06-25-2013, 07:56 PM   #1
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Wet Floor? Ya might wanna check the bellypan.

We knew that our new to us 2006 Safari FB SE had a water issue under the dinette when we purchased it.

Got it home, removed the dinette and rolled back the floor to begin drying it out. While it was drying we resealed the windows (all of them), the roof, and removed the beltline trim and sealed up back there..

After a week of dehumidifier and fans the moisture meter was still in the "red". Decided that I should check in the bellypan for moisture trapped between the plywood and the insulation..

Well here's the video...

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Old 06-25-2013, 08:35 PM   #2
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Wow! Your trailer came with a fresh water reserve tank.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:50 AM   #3
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Is that some sort of radiant barrier film, like reflectix, that the water is trapped behind? My 02 goes from plywood subfloor to pink fiberglass insulation to metal bellypan. It looks like floor insulation techniques must have changed sometime after 2002.

I hope this resolves your moisture problems.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:54 AM   #4
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That's disturbing.

What's more disturbing is the other Videos which pop up below yours.

"Don't look Ethel!" Too late!

So what year is your AS?
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:50 AM   #5
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What's more disturbing is the other Videos which pop up below yours.
ill second that..
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:36 AM   #6
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I'll third that...

Did a quick search and it appears that one cannot control the "related videos".

From YouTube:

You do not have control over what videos are displayed in the "Related Videos" section. These are automatically selected based on certain factors. If there are videos shown that you feel are inappropriate based on our Community Guidelines ( YouTube ), please use the flagging feature beneath the video. It will bring it to our attention immediately.

The Airstream is a 2006 25FB SE.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:50 AM   #7
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And yes that is reflectix. The good news is that all the moisture was above it.

The inside of the belly pan looks brand new...

The floor above it-not so much...
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:53 AM   #8
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Looks like a unique AS weight loss system. Should tow a lot easier now.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:07 AM   #9
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oh my stars, that was awful!
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:04 AM   #10
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That water can only get into the floor insulation from above. You really need to find that leak and repair it. It is most likely traveling inbetween the exterior and interior skins.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #11
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NOTE TO SELF: leave weep holes in Reflectix below subfloor.

Probably would not have thought that, but now I probably won't be able to forget it.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by billtrev View Post
And yes that is reflectix. The good news is that all the moisture was above it.

The inside of the belly pan looks brand new...

The floor above it-not so much...
Bill, did you find the source of the water leak? It appears to be significant!
Thanks
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:01 AM   #13
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Did we find the leak? We think so...
The previous owner had the trailer shrink wrapped like a boat.
When they uncovered it one of the street side rear windows
was broken. While there is evidence of water damage to the
floor at the very rear from either the bumper seam or the pano
window I think the vast majority of that water came from the window
We resealed the windows and removed and sealed the beltline trim
and so far all is dry
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:27 AM   #14
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billtrev-

I'm glad you found the source of the leak and are staying dry.

In case there is any wood damage or potential mold formation, I wanted to be sure you're aware of a product that Airstream and boat restorers are using -- Cold Penetrating Epoxy System.

Colin Hyde used it on the new floor in our '59 to protect the edges of the plywood. I liked the idea so much that I did the entire floor. I also use it on an old house for repairs and find it quite worthwhile. (no association with supplier)

It is not cheap and is quite ripe when applying, but it's far cheaper than replacing a floor or dealing with mold!

John
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:52 PM   #15
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I have had the same experience with my 2008 25 FBSE.

As I previously posted, the rear floors of my 25 FB were soaking wet with the underfloor foil bubblewrap insulation trapping the water there.


http://eheffa.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v...09564375-3.jpg

The rear bumper trim had no caulking at all and there was free entry of water through the Starboard rear taillight assembly. I also found water coming in through the rear & front window wells.

After pulling up the vinyl & removing the belly sheet metal, I let things dry out for a few days.




I ordered some Rot doctor (Cold Penetrating Epoxy Sealant) & treated the floors liberally.




http://eheffa.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v91/p1861911116-3.jpg

In anticipation of mounting foam insulation under the floor, I wanted something to keep the insulation away from direct contact with the wood. I did not have redwood available to me & wanted to use something inert. I found some vinyl outdoor lattice trim & used this as spacers:


I then screwed the foam/foil insulation to the floor with the spacers keeping them from contact with the wood.












The bumper & all the belly band trim was caulked with liberal amounts of Sikaflex & reapplied with Dum-Dum caulk beneath the trim as well.



Time will tell I guess but I am hopeful that the leaks are fixed.

I will post a few pictures of my modifications to the window wells in a separate post. (I opted to install drains as I was not confident I could totally prevent the windows weeping water while underway or when in heavy rain storms.)

-evan
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:39 PM   #16
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I have read on this forum enough to know that the rear bumper area is often the achilles heal of AS. So, I finished this week taking off my lower beltline trim like others have done. My AS is sealed behind the trim rail unlike some others that checked this area.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:44 AM   #17
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Critical Information for any Airstream owner

Having just discovered this issue myself, I think its important that everyone who owns a late model Airstream to know that this foil under the plywood is a major design flaw, and something to keep an eye on. My local dealer, who seems knowledgeable, didn’t even know the extent of how this foil is right up against the plywood, trapping water indefinitely. The water has to rise up through the plywood, through the vinyl flooring and into the coach to evaporate. Not happening.

I have a 2017 Tommy 27FB, and discovered water trapped between the foil underpayment, and plywood, not allowing the plywood to EVER dry out.

Who would design such a thing? It’s such a no brainer to have an insulation design in a trailer that allows for moisture to run out of weep holes, or be allowed air induction to evaporate.

I’ve removed everything in the bedrooom, removed bellypan and foil layer under plywood by cutting with a razor along the beams, applied “Total Boat Cold Cure” Epoxy to top of plywood, installed bellypan and also cut access panels within bellypan secured by rivets to allow for drying if this ever happens again.

What a pain, and how disappointed I am with Airstream I can’t even describe.

I will say that I’m glad the bellypan appears to be aluminum, and frame was painted, so there was zero rust and everything will be back to normal in short order, which is a testament to the resiliency of the materials used. As long as owners catch this stuff early, they should be ok. Left unattended and you’ll have loads of mold, and will basically have to gut the interior and do a shell off Restoration in my opinion. As Rich Luhr says, water will kill an Airstrea. But it doesn’t have to be that way.

Airstream has a tight budget I guess, but they need to take note of this AGE OLD issue and use a synthetic material for the subfloor, a gap for the insulation material, and plan ahead for moisture/water evacuation through holes to allow drainage if some lazy person in the factory didn’t do their job and seal the rails, or windows or whatever during construction, which is what happened to mine.

BTW, the “treated floor” as described in my TB27FB brochure, was nothing more than some half ass black colored wood treatment / sealant around the perimeter of the plywood that was missed in many areas, and not even CLOSE to effective.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logdigital View Post
Having just discovered this issue myself, I think its important that everyone who owns a late model Airstream to know that this foil under the plywood is a major design flaw, and something to keep an eye on. My local dealer, who seems knowledgeable, didn’t even know the extent of how this foil is right up against the plywood, trapping water indefinitely. The water has to rise up through the plywood, through the vinyl flooring and into the coach to evaporate. Not happening.

I have a 2017 Tommy 27FB, and discovered water trapped between the foil underpayment, and plywood, not allowing the plywood to EVER dry out.

Who would design such a thing? It’s such a no brainer to have an insulation design in a trailer that allows for moisture to run out of weep holes, or be allowed air induction to evaporate.

I’ve removed everything in the bedrooom, removed bellypan and foil layer under plywood by cutting with a razor along the beams, applied “Total Boat Cold Cure” Epoxy to top of plywood, installed bellypan and also cut access panels within bellypan secured by rivets to allow for drying if this ever happens again.

What a pain, and how disappointed I am with Airstream I can’t even describe.

I will say that I’m glad the bellypan appears to be aluminum, and frame was painted, so there was zero rust and everything will be back to normal in short order, which is a testament to the resiliency of the materials used. As long as owners catch this stuff early, they should be ok. Left unattended and you’ll have loads of mold, and will basically have to gut the interior and do a shell off Restoration in my opinion. As Rich Luhr says, water will kill an Airstrea. But it doesn’t have to be that way.

Airstream has a tight budget I guess, but they need to take note of this AGE OLD issue and use a synthetic material for the subfloor, a gap for the insulation material, and plan ahead for moisture/water evacuation through holes to allow drainage if some lazy person in the factory didn’t do their job and seal the rails, or windows or whatever during construction, which is what happened to mine.

BTW, the “treated floor” as described in my TB27FB brochure, was nothing more than some half ass black colored wood treatment / sealant around the perimeter of the plywood that was missed in many areas, and not even CLOSE to effective.
So Airstream continues to produce beautiful trailers with ridiculously flawed designs such that unless the trailer is kept in a desert, they will eventually rot from the inside out.

Shame on Airstream.

It's fixable but requires the owner, (who of course recognized they were buying a budget trailer that will need to be rebuilt), to redesign and rectify these design flaws in order to keep using said 'budget' trailer. It would be funny except for the cynical decision making at the Airstream corporate level.

-evan
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logdigital View Post
Having just discovered this issue myself, I think its important that everyone who owns a late model Airstream to know that this foil under the plywood is a major design flaw, and something to keep an eye on. My local dealer, who seems knowledgeable, didn’t even know the extent of how this foil is right up against the plywood, trapping water indefinitely. The water has to rise up through the plywood, through the vinyl flooring and into the coach to evaporate. Not happening.

I have a 2017 Tommy 27FB, and discovered water trapped between the foil underpayment, and plywood, not allowing the plywood to EVER dry out.

Who would design such a thing? It’s such a no brainer to have an insulation design in a trailer that allows for moisture to run out of weep holes, or be allowed air induction to evaporate.

I’ve removed everything in the bedrooom, removed bellypan and foil layer under plywood by cutting with a razor along the beams, applied “Total Boat Cold Cure” Epoxy to top of plywood, installed bellypan and also cut access panels within bellypan secured by rivets to allow for drying if this ever happens again.

What a pain, and how disappointed I am with Airstream I can’t even describe.

I will say that I’m glad the bellypan appears to be aluminum, and frame was painted, so there was zero rust and everything will be back to normal in short order, which is a testament to the resiliency of the materials used. As long as owners catch this stuff early, they should be ok. Left unattended and you’ll have loads of mold, and will basically have to gut the interior and do a shell off Restoration in my opinion. As Rich Luhr says, water will kill an Airstrea. But it doesn’t have to be that way.

Airstream has a tight budget I guess, but they need to take note of this AGE OLD issue and use a synthetic material for the subfloor, a gap for the insulation material, and plan ahead for moisture/water evacuation through holes to allow drainage if some lazy person in the factory didn’t do their job and seal the rails, or windows or whatever during construction, which is what happened to mine.

BTW, the “treated floor” as described in my TB27FB brochure, was nothing more than some half ass black colored wood treatment / sealant around the perimeter of the plywood that was missed in many areas, and not even CLOSE to effective.
Hi logdigital,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issue you are having. If you need assistance, please send us a direct message with your contact information and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team.

You can also reach Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customer_support@airstream.com*

Thank you.*
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:37 PM   #20
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Wow, logdigital. I have a 2017 as well. 2 questions if you don’t mind...

1. How did you discover the water issue?
2. What do you believe is root cause for water ingress under the floor being trapped between the floor and foil?

Thanks for posting your experience here.
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