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Old 10-25-2020, 02:00 PM   #1
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stripped screw at front window rock shield bracket

FC20 FB here. I recently noticed some moisture on the bed edge under the front window. Pulled the mattress and the ply was a little moist.

After some investigation I noticed that the bracket holding the front window shield in place seemed a bit loose on the last screw, right above the wet spot The equivalent screw on the other end was screwed into a seam joint and likely a rib and is rock solid as were all the others along the bracket. This screw for whatever reason was about an inch past the seam so it likely missed a rib, and there was a 1/8” gap between the skin and the back of the bracket. The oem screw (a #8 x .75 fine thread ??) was loosely held in by some caulk and the hole basically stripped. I replaced it with a #10 X 1” coarse self-tapping (SS), but had to slip a 1/8” X ½” +/- rubber faucet washer behind the bracket (hard to see in pics) to 1) seal it & 2) fill the void so I could firm up the screw. The leak has stopped.

I’m trying to develop a LT strategy re the screws especially the one in question on the CS.

1) I’m leaning towards removing the entire bracket/screws & filling the old incorrectly places & stripped hole with a ParBond dab & #10X3/4 SS tight to the skin. Then start fresh with a new screw where it should be (about 1” over in the seam/rib), then replace the other screws with the same #10x3/4 as well since I have to remove all and the bar anyway to access the stripped hole. Once installed, I’ll caulk along the top of the bracket.

2) Or should I simply ParBond the hole, continue with the rubber washer and follow with the #10, keeping the other screws in place, then run a fresh bead along to top of the bracket.

Aside from any compatibility issues with the caulk & rubber washer, the latter is certainly the easier route but to me seems less permanent. I prefer to not disturb existing, intact and sealed OEM screws, but think going with a larger/coarser caulked screw is the ticket for the patch and re-install with the bracket & all screws flush to the skin is the best long term solution.

I was originally considering using the 221 or ParBond alu. Now leaning towards the ParBond. I don’t need the bonding of the 221. Lewster indicated very tough to get an attached part off if needed. I’m also thinking Cosmoline (alcohol based) prep/cleanup for ParBond.

While on the Cosmoline subject, would GooGone work? It is distillate based but does have two other ingredients (Limonene & Orange sweet extract) both scents in very minor amounts. The contractor used it on the marble to remove excess/smeared caulk. I have never used it where I need to caulk again…just used as a remover.

Also, Is the Cosmoline intended to remove any/all existing caulk or just prep the surface for the new caulk?

Any suggestions & comments appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 10-25-2020, 09:38 PM   #2
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I had a similar leak in my 2019 Flying Cloud 30 Bunk that was repaired under warranty. . Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they said there was a seal between the bracket and the trailer that they replaced.

I'm glad you find the source of the leak. On my trailer, this was a tricky one. They had to do a pressurized leak test to see why the front bed and electrical outlets were getting wet.
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:14 PM   #3
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Thanks jay, there might be one, seam to seam. I'll know more when i pull the bracket off.

Just another JC QC issue. Why the put the screw to the left of the seam, with clearly a gap between the bracket and seam is beyond me. Thanks for the heads up. Maybe some butyl tape there on the bracket re-install.

As for finding the leak, I'm optimistic. Rain next week will confirm.

Thx!
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Old 10-27-2020, 11:58 AM   #4
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Hey CruizinDux. I saw your reply on the Sealant Summery thread.

I like your 1st suggestion the best. Take it apart and fix it. I think Parbond would work well for sealing the hole and even the top edge.

As far as Cosmoline for cleanup. I do not know. I have always used Mineral Spirits as is recomended by Parbond.

APPLICATION TECHNIQUES
1. Surfaces to be sealed should be clean, dry and free of oil and moisture. Sealant can be applied over
well-cured, hard, and thoroughly secure paint film. However, soft films or those with questionable
adhesion, should be removed.
2. Apply the sealant through a Plews gun or similar flow gun, or from a collapsible tube, cartridge or plastic
squeeze bottle.
3. Apply a small bead. If the opening is sufficiently large, force a small amount of the sealant into the joint.
Bridge small openings at least 1/8" on each side. Apply in a smooth bead and allow to level. Do not
attempt to tool the surface.
4. Do not handle, move, or pack for one hour until a surface film has formed.
*** 5. Clean hands and tools with mineral spirits. ***

-Dennis
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Old 10-27-2020, 12:53 PM   #5
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Perfect, thanks Dennis. Should I presume mineral spirits would also be the ticket for surface prep since it is recommended for cleanup.
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruizinDux View Post
Perfect, thanks Dennis. Should I presume mineral spirits would also be the ticket for surface prep since it is recommended for cleanup.
That is what I have done. I use micro fiber cloth to Clean surface with Mineral Spirits, then wipe with dry cloth and let air dry a while.

-Dennis
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:09 PM   #7
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Got it, many thanks Dennis!

Thanks too for the fix feedback. I think that's my direction.
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:16 AM   #8
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Well pulled the shield then the bracket and no butyl tape or equal behind the bracket, just some residual of caulk that cam out with the screw.



I cleaned the bracket and skin with mineral spirits. For the stray hole which was the problem I ended up with a SS coarse thread #12 I believe. The hole was bigger than suspected but then again with nothing but skin there the bracket was wagging it's tail. I loaded up the hole inside and topical with ParBond, ran the screw in and added more Parbond to the screw edges.



As for the other holes, I again loaded up the holes, added some inside the bracket, ran the same size as OEM screws in (#10??) but a coarse thread and started each screw. AS it pulled the bracket in, I again loaded the penetration area from the top with Parbond, tightened them down and ran a bead along the top of the bracket.


I checked a few days later after some rain and all was good. I'll check again today as we had a a huge front roll thru. I may top off the screw edges along the bracket with ParBond but that may be overkill since I added a lot of caulk behind the bracket specially at the penetrations.


If I had it to do over again, I think I would look at the rivnuts and replace all of them including the patch.



Obviously I'll also be much more careful when opening the rock shield in the future.
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Old 11-16-2020, 01:45 AM   #9
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Hey, That looks looks pretty darn good and it sounds like it will hold up better than OEM.

Not sure about rivnuts. I haven't used them personally. They look to be quite sturdy. There are some different brands, some that are aviation rated and some have anti-rotation notches, etc.

Not having used them, I am not sure how to make them waterproof. I guess a thread sealant would work. Perhaps Capt. Tolley's?

Anyway, good job sir.

-Dennis
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:05 AM   #10
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Dennis, thanks for the comments. I too am feeling good about the outcome.


I went with the SM screw as it had a big flat head to caulk and hopefully seal against the skin. Plus it was covered by the bracket and so more caulkable?? if that's a word. Also as it was easily available.



No experience much less reasonable availability here re the rivnuts and was thinking more applicable for a larger hole. Good tip on the Tolley's.


Happy Trails.


p.s. didn't use the butyl tape as the bracket was concave on the back and thought the ParBond was a better route.
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:21 AM   #11
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I have used a Bostik product called Simson ISR70-03 for many years on my trailers. It is an industrial product used by one of the largest bus manufacturers in North America. This is a sealant as well as as an adhesive. I came upon this product while in a suppliers store looking for usual Tempro sealant. The sales person and I got in a discussion and he recomended the Simson product to me, and I have been using it for over 10 years. Available in silver or white, and works very well. Information on the product is available on the internet.
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:01 PM   #12
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Great job Bob looks neat and clean
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruizinDux View Post
. . .
After some investigation I noticed that the bracket holding the front window shield in place seemed a bit loose on the last screw, right above the wet spot The equivalent screw on the other end was screwed into a seam joint and likely a rib and is rock solid as were all the others along the bracket. This screw for whatever reason was about an inch past the seam so it likely missed a rib, and there was a 1/8” gap between the skin and the back of the bracket.
. . .
Thanks for the heads up. I finally got around to looking at ours -- same 2014 model year. Ours however, has the last mounting screws inboard of that vertical seam and they are rock-solid, as is the caulk. I had never noticed the gap -- intentional apparently -- which permits the Plexi panel hinge to remain straight and true, as the outer aluminum skin curves away.

Different installers on the Jackson Center assembly line, and no QC guidance/oversight?



A quick fix!

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Old 11-22-2020, 04:43 PM   #14
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Hey Peter. Got your note and the pic here really shows the shine. Nice, nice indeed

As for the bracket, is the DS screw at the rib seam? What got my attention was that screwing into the ( very thin ) skin was like screwing into alu foil. On the DS, i probed the hole and thought i felt a rib. Very hard to tell, but at least there was 2 layers of meat.

I'm the last person that would suggest a new penetration, but your CS screw has no more meat than mine did...and your has more leverage.

Personal opinion, but when i used a coarser (same size) self tapping screw all across the bracket, they felt firm, but i think that was reflective of the bite into the thicker bracket and not the skin. I thought about removing the bracket, drilling it clean so the screw turned free, so at least i knew the skin's threshold, but i had caulked the back of the bracket and loaded up the holes, removing it would have been a big@#$% mess. So in the end i used a drill driver to slowly tighten it up until caulk squirted out. So just a heads up, firm can be misleading...firm to skin or just firm screw to bracket. Keep an eye on it, you have more bracket past the last screw than i did. Jus sayn'
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Old 11-23-2020, 01:51 PM   #15
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Guessing there has to be a structural horizontal "header" above the window between the 2 angled roof joists IMO. Looking at your first photo, only the left screw misses this presumed header IMO. I guess your right screw is in one of the framing members [joist/rib/header], but not the left screw.

Poor JC QC for sure . . . including the asymmetry of your screw layout IMO.

Have a good Thanksgiving, all!
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:09 PM   #16
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Guessing there has to be a structural horizontal "header" above the window between the 2 angled roof joists IMO. Looking at your first photo, only the left screw misses this presumed header IMO. I guess your right screw is in one of the framing members [joist/rib/header], but not the left screw.

Poor JC QC for sure . . . including the asymmetry of your screw layout IMO.
I doubt that quality control has anything to do with where those screws go into the body. The screw spacing in CruizinDux's original picture is completely symmetrical around the bracket's center, suggesting that the screw holes in the bracket were pre-drilled with a planned spacing.

I just checked our trailer (a 2002) and the bracket holes are symmetrical around the center of the bracket and, yes, the left one misses the seam and whatever is presumably behind it. Has never caused a problem in 18 years.

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Old 11-23-2020, 03:32 PM   #17
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I haven't measured but suspect Tim is right. They visually do look symmetrical. They probably started on the DS and toward left...pre drilled screws holes landed where they landed.



I did a quick peek thru the classified and they showed a wide variety in the L to R mounting. May also be due to slight panel variations. I'm assuming they are perfectly symmetrical and that may not be the case. I would think if they were pre-drilled, the would set the center screw first, tho using the two outer screws as the guide the landing in the seam area are close but not dead on.



I'll take part of the rap here too as it is easy to get in the habit of lifting from the one side/corner, set the screw, then doing the other side/corner and screw. Probably doesn't help much. I now lift only from the center.


AS for the QC, on our unit their has been no shortage of bone head what were they thinking examples. Not saying this is an example, but ...what's the term Peter....contributory negligence
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Old 11-23-2020, 03:41 PM   #18
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A picture is worth . . .



Asymmetry . . .

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Old 11-23-2020, 10:07 PM   #19
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Got that..truly

Negligence reference was need to baby the lift process since jc didn't want to spend a few sheckles and design some backing for at least the two outboard screws. I have already swapped the cheap fiamma pot metal for solid ss plus upsizing the weanie screws the as dealer used on the oem install. Guessing next stop is the zipdee

Flash back on this rig while on the subject. Propane tank holder attached by only two screws.. The 3rd was broken off flush (over torgued) and the 4th was never tapped... Fwd lp drain located and not accessible under the WH. No way to winterize... Hello?

I don't think it's a QC issue, as much a worker training and product expectations issue. A management issue.
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:57 PM   #20
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Is the FC narrower than our 25 Classic?
We don't have that concern.
They may have been looking to save another $1.75 per unit.

Bob
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