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10-04-2011, 07:03 AM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
1969 27' Overlander
Albuquerque
, New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 168
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Silicone caulk on aluminum
I was concerned about an earlier thread that stated to NEVER use silicone caulk because it eats aluminum (which I have done ), so I called DAP Products directly to find out why.
Here's their answer:
The silicone based caulk etches aluminum because of the acetic acid content. It's the Acetic Acid that attacks the aluminum, not the silicone.
They recommended the following caulks, that have 30-50 year service life:
Butyl Flex
Dap 3.0 (Silicone hybrid w/o acetic acid)
Latex
I know that Vulkem (Sikoflex) and Parbond are the preferred sealants, but HD and Lowes don't carry them, and sometimes it rains TODAY, not next week.
Hope that helps!
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10-04-2011, 07:41 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Just a quick clarification: SikaFlex is not the same product as Vulkem. Also, Tempro (which bought Vulkem as I understand) makes several grades of these essentially one part polyurethane sealants
You can easily get them on-line and store them in your freezer, where they will stay fresh way beyond the expiration date. Also, some well-stocked RV stores carry them, as do many Fastenal stores.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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10-04-2011, 07:58 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
2011 23' FB Flying Cloud
Branson
, Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edglenn
I was concerned about an earlier thread that stated to NEVER use silicone caulk because it eats aluminum (which I have done ), so I called DAP Products directly to find out why.
Here's their answer:
The silicone based caulk etches aluminum because of the acetic acid content. It's the Acetic Acid that attacks the aluminum, not the silicone.
They recommended the following caulks, that have 30-50 year service life:
Butyl Flex
Dap 3.0 (Silicone hybrid w/o acetic acid)
Latex
I know that Vulkem (Sikoflex) and Parbond are the preferred sealants, but HD and Lowes don't carry them, and sometimes it rains TODAY, not next week.
Hope that helps!
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Your post had me going for a bit.
Because of a leak near the stove exhaust vent cover, I used GE's Premium Waterproof Silicone II.
Just finished a call to their hot line and was assured that their Silicone II contained NO acetic acid. They went on to say that their plain silicone brand DID contain acetic acid and was not suitable for aluminum.
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10-04-2011, 09:53 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1972 25' Tradewind
North Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,421
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Sikaflex and Vulkem are not restricted to RV's in their applications, either. They are used extensively by the window and curtain wall industry. So if you have supplier of glazing supplies near you, that would be another source. Failing that, as others have said, order it online.
__________________
Cameron & the Labradors, Kai & Samm
North Vancouver, BC
Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death! - Mame Dennis
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10-04-2011, 10:51 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
1953 32' Liner
1955 22' Safari
Valley View
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,971
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Do yourself a big favor
__________________
"If it can't be reduced, reused, repaired, rebuilt, refurbished, refinished, resold, recycled or composted
then it should be restricted, redesigned or removed from production."
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10-04-2011, 11:06 AM
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#6
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one of those
2011 27 FB International
'03 F250 PSD
, Airstream summers, Catalac winters
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,091
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wouldn't 'etched' at the contact point mean the sealant gets a better bond?
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05-24-2012, 10:24 AM
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#7
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sunny 75
1975 27' Overlander
selah
, Washington
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 34
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I'm still in the process of removing what seems like gallons of silver/gray silicone caulk from seams, rivets and everywhere imaginable. Please do NOT put silicone on your airstream. It's airstream abuse!
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05-24-2012, 12:07 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1972 27' Overlander
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 951
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For the umpteenth time, and to reiterate what MurreyWalker posted, I have used GE Silicone ll formulated for Aluminum and Metal (100% silicone; no acetic acid, high-fructose corn syrup, or phosphates) with the same amount of apparent success as the Vulkem, and with better success than Parbond. I have used it to seal, with a small, neat bead, around my window frame-to-skin areas, and around the tops and sides of the running lights. Looks today like 5 years ago, no leaks.
(Disclaimer: I have also used an RV cover to keep the bird s**t and pine sap off my trailer (with 100% success), have mixed greywater into my black tank without killing my family or destroying my trailer, and tow with a non-Hensley hitch. I also put in non-Henschen axles, have no flamingo ornaments, and belong to no club.)
"When silicone is illegal, only illegals will have silicone"
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05-24-2012, 01:21 PM
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#9
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1 Rivet Member
1973 27' Overlander
Kenner
, Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 15
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I have to agree with sunny. I spent 2 days removing that trash. DO NOT USE SILICONE!!!!!!! Do the job right and have some respect for your trailer.
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06-11-2012, 09:25 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1972 27' Overlander
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourcatos
I have to agree with sunny. I spent 2 days removing that trash. DO NOT USE SILICONE!!!!!!! Do the job right and have some respect for your trailer.
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Sounds like silicone really adheres, which is a plus in my book. I think you'll have the same "problem" with vulkem if you ever decide to remove that. My AS also had a lot of clear silicone smeared on with the PO's thumb, and was indeed ugly and hard to remove. I cleaned it all up, and hope now that the neat bead of silver-grey GE silicone II (specially formulated for aluminum) that I have around the windows is equally durable. It appears to be.
I have respect for using one's powers of observation and reasoning, and somewhat less for the acceptance of "group-think".
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06-11-2012, 11:00 AM
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#11
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Ahem, yasss ...kaff-kaff
1969 27' Overlander
Bloomington
, Indiana
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 36
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Speaking as a building contractor, I'm not a big fan of silicone. It adheres to some surfaces, but not others such as asphalt shingles. What it does stick to it sticks very well which can also be a problem when it comes time to repair/replace something. Butyl caulks are far superior IMO, because they seal very well but are relatively easy to remove with ordinary tools. I sealed Betty's fridge vent with this and it worked just fine.
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06-11-2012, 03:24 PM
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#12
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Rivet Monster
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,172
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Once silicone adheres it leaves a film. The film is very difficult to remove and will stop any other type of sealant from adhering properly.
Perhaps the new formulations of silicone are an improvement, I honestly don't know. What I do know is that Vulkem/Trempro or equivalent sealants from Sonneborn or Sikalastic are much easier to remove and reseal when the need arises.
Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
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08-03-2012, 08:44 PM
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#13
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pickpick
1966 28' Ambassador
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 17
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I went by my local RV repair place and asked what to use to seal around my plumbing vent pipes on top. He handed me a tube of Manus -bond silicone rubber sealant. It doesn't say it contain acetic-acid. Is this okay to use on our 66 ambassador? Thanks.
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08-09-2012, 09:22 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1982 34' Limited
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Sioux Falls
, South Dakota
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 558
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How DO you remove silicone?
OK, it sounds like there are some subtleties involved here, this is very helpful.
(See also the thread: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f456...aks-66628.html, which has a more thorough discussion of the varieties of silicone.)
But here's the thing. If you find that the PO has used lots of silicone, what IS the best way to remove it? Is there are good, safe solvent for it? Or is it just a matter of scraping with a plastic tool or something? 'Cuz I got some silicone and it ain't pretty!
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08-09-2012, 10:12 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1982 34' Limited
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Sioux Falls
, South Dakota
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 558
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Thanks Someday '59. If you were to have a secret, it would be safe with me.
__________________
sent from my hipflask
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08-11-2012, 08:10 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1987 25' Sovereign
Fort Collins
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 582
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I recently traded several emails with Lyn Dickinson who is our area rep for Tremco (they make a raft of sealants). Based on another earlier post, I wanted to try their Dymonic poly sealant, but couldn't find it. Her recommendation:
"I would use Spectrem 2 for what your doing - its a silicone will last 20 yrs + - if you don't want silicone then Dymonic FC would still be next best - Dymonic was formulated for Canada and works okay but is an older technology sealant and will need to be replaced in 5yrs or less
I just re-sealed my windows on my 5th wheel (2003 Alpine Light) with Spectrem 2 and wouldn't use anything but - "
I asked her about reported damage from silicone. Her response:
"...that's a myth to a certain degree - what they are referring to is "acid cure" silicone - old 50-60 technology - the neutral cure silicones do not react with aluminum. Consider every high rise aluminum frame/glass building in the world is sealed with neutral cure silicone for the last 30 years."
Anyway, I've asked for samples of Spectrem 2, Dymonic and Dymonic FC to try out. You can ask for free samples of these products at the Tremco web site.
__________________
Alumacoot
“We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.”
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08-11-2012, 09:29 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1972 27' Overlander
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan and Liz
I recently traded several emails with Lyn Dickinson who is our area rep for Tremco (they make a raft of sealants). Based on another earlier post, I wanted to try their Dymonic poly sealant, but couldn't find it. Her recommendation:
"I would use Spectrem 2 for what your doing - its a silicone will last 20 yrs + - if you don't want silicone then Dymonic FC would still be next best - Dymonic was formulated for Canada and works okay but is an older technology sealant and will need to be replaced in 5yrs or less
I just re-sealed my windows on my 5th wheel (2003 Alpine Light) with Spectrem 2 and wouldn't use anything but - "
I asked her about reported damage from silicone. Her response:
"...that's a myth to a certain degree - what they are referring to is "acid cure" silicone - old 50-60 technology - the neutral cure silicones do not react with aluminum. Consider every high rise aluminum frame/glass building in the world is sealed with neutral cure silicone for the last 30 years."
Anyway, I've asked for samples of Spectrem 2, Dymonic and Dymonic FC to try out. You can ask for free samples of these products at the Tremco web site.
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Good- another myth debunked forever, or at least untill another new sealant thread appears.
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08-11-2012, 05:34 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
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GE Silicone caulking is used extensively in industrial environments to seal aluminum jacketing on piping and equipment. Most major owner or engineer generated specifications will specify a silicone caulking as their preferred sealant and most often this is GE 1200. Look at any industrial facility, an oil refinery for example, and you will see all this nice shiny aluminum jacketing on most of the piping,tanks, towers, and vessels. The laps and penetrations on this jacketing are normally sealed with silicone caulking. The installation can last 20 to 40 years. The stuff works and does not cause deterioration of the aluminum. Now, taking it off is a different problem that I know nothing about since I have never had to take it off.
__________________
Jim
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09-24-2012, 05:25 AM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
2005 25' Safari
Currently Looking...
Versailles
, Indiana
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 264
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Sorry - we are new to Airstreaming and are working on rehabbing a 1980 International that had leaked in both the rear bedroom and front by gaucho. We had been previously advised to use Acryl-R on the roof seams/around vents and Adaseal on the sides/windows to skin. We had not heard of using Vulkem and now we're not sure what to use where!
Also - some of our windows have a white-ish old 'caulk' that had been applied to the outside of the glass between the seal and glass itself?? When I washed the windows, it just flakes off, but do I need to put something back on?? ACK!
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