Leaky Windows & Skin Replacement

[PizzaChop]

As the proud new owner of a '72 Overlander 27', I am slowly compiling a list of "to do's". It is overall, in pretty decent shape (all original furniture/cabinets/appliances) but there is some minor leaking up front (as evidenced by the corner sections of the plywood floor under the gaucho arms). While I have not pinpointed the source of the leak(s) yet, I suspect the windows for the following reasons:

1. The left vista view window, as well as the window below it, probably have about a tube and a half of clear silicone between the two of them on the top of each frame on the exterior. Besides being unsightly, I know this is not the proper way to seal/prevent leaks according to what I've read here.

My question here is: Must I remove the exterior frame(s) (drill out rivets, etc.) in order to seal them properly, or can vulkem (or aluminum caulk) be applied to the seam once all of the old silicone is removed? And if this is the case, I should be able to remove and clean the exterior vista window and from the outside, right? (I've seen the post with pictures of doing it from the inside, but I think it required breaking the inside pane and it wasn't replaced.)
What's the most efficient approach here, considering the leak and fogginess?

2. Both left and right front windows have excessive moisture between the panes (especially when it rains), as well as some hideous gray rubber gasket showing between the panes. I haven't removed any of the interior panels to verify that this is how the floor is getting wet, but I know I want to fix the windows. It appears that the left exterior window frame has been removed as the rivets don't match the factory rivets everywhere else.
I have read the post (and viewed the pics) of removing these windows from the inside, but again, it involved breaking the interior window, something I'd rather not do.
Considering the possible/probable leak(s) as well as the non-factory looking rivets, would it be better to remove the glass from the exterior to fix this problem?

3. Cosmetic Issue - Big Dent in right rear upper qtr panel - I know I shouldn't be concerned with cosmetics yet, but if I have to order rivets for the windows, I might as well be thinking about this job as well.
There is a 24-30" long dent with a crease in the center on the upper right rear qtr panel. (I'm assuming it's a quarter panel that terminates at the rub rail). Perhaps it could be improved with some working from the inside but with the crease, it will probably never some out. How difficult is it to replace one piece like this? How difficult is it to obtain this piece of skin and does anyone have a ballpark estimate of what it might cost?

Thanks very much for a great forum!

[Tripp]

Pizza Chop,

Regarding your Vista Views, you do not need to remove the frame to fix them. You can do it from the inside of the trailer. Do a search for Vista View Windows. I posted the complete repair sequence and uploaded photos to show how its done.

The inner vista view pane on that year is actually plexi. The fogginess is caused by two things-condensation and the factory applied window film on the outer pane is coming off.

Your front windows can be replaced with a factory single pane, but they are expensive and you probably won't be able to find the correct glass color. The replacements available now are tinted. Not a big deal if you have a rockguard, but the cost is high. This is the main reason most people break the inner pane. I did mine and am very satisfied with the results. At the very least, you will want to put the correct olympic rivets back in the frame.

I'm not sure about the crease. Can you post a photo? Just about everything can be fixed on these if you have the patience and know how (or the cash! ). Its will all boil down to priorities. I would definitely spend the time to fix all leaks, replace all seals (including the vent seals), get rid of all silicone and replace with vulkem, etc.

Good Luck!


Tripp

[wahoonc]

1. Your vista views should use the snap ring, which means that the inner pane can be removed without breaking it. Someone documented it in their photo album. Mine leak between the gray seal and the frame, not the frame and the body.
2. It is my understanding that the front windows can be disassembled from the inside without breaking them, but I haven't done these windows yet.

3. No clue but segements can still be purchased from AS but they won't be the same finish. Maybe a salvage piece? Someone the board was parting out a 80's vintage. And I believe the parts would be the same and the metal maybe the same.

Aaron

[PizzaChop]

Tripp & Wahoonc,

As for removing silicone and resealing with vulkem (on both vista as well as front), can I do this without removing exterior frame? (Obviously I'd like to replace the front left "replacement" rivets with Olympic, but other than that, can I effectively seal off exterior frames w/o removing them?)

(I viewed a post recently that showed vulkem being applied with masking tape on either side to create a smooth, "factory" finish.)

What I seem to be hearing is that these are two different issues (leaks, fogginess) and windows should only be removed from the inside, if at all possible. Is this correct?

(I'm a bit concerned with vista view removal because the plastic housing around the plexiglass is brittle and has already cracked a bit when I poked around at it.)

Thanks for you replies, time, and patience!

[wahoonc]

Ron,
What I have found is that unless a Vista View frame shows signs of having been removed or damaged the leaks usually occur between the glass and the gasket on the inside of the frame, I am going to have to remove one of my frames in a month or so and I will document it with pictures. But I expect to find plenty of caulking under the frame. From what I have seen and I hear, if you remove the inner pane, and the outer pane, from the inside, clean them and the frame throughly. Then you re install the outer pane with a heavy bead of Vulkem between the glass and the frame, and add a gasket (available from Can-Am RV) behind the window. I am in the middle of this process right now and will have more information forthcoming, complete with pictures. BTW I did manage to break on of my Vista Views, it was the worst one of the batch when it came to foggyness and leaks.
You should be able to seal the top and side edges of the frame with Vulkem or Parabond, that will keep any water from working it's way under the frame. Also look for black or rub marks around the rivets, that will indicatet that something is loose. Bucked rivets will loosen up but it is unlikely on something as small as a Vista View frame.

Not sure to tell you what to do about the plastic around the Vista View windows, mine is in decent shape with very little cracking. I haven't gotten against mine hard enough to cause any problems. It appears to still be pretty flexible.

Aaron

[jjonesnc]

Ron,
Im having the same window(s) problem with my 1980 Excella. Have you worked on yours yet and if so how did it go and what was the fix?
Thanks-
Jason

[PizzaChop]

Jason,

Unfortunately, I found myself in the middle of bathroom floor repairs and haven't thought much about the windows in a while. The task seems much less daunting now that I've torn the bathroom out to replace the floor.

I'm hoping to get the bathroom together by the end of this month, then I'll start looking forward.

Bathroom Floor Repair Photos

I noticed your thread on floor repairs. If you haven't looked at the above pictures, they might be helpful. I wire wheel brushed the entire exposed portion of the rear frame before slathering it with OSPHA (I think that's what it's called), a green solution that is supposed to turn the rust into something else. (Bottom line, it's supposed to stop the rust and then act as a primer.) I then brush painted with some Auluminum silver Rustoleum.

Have fun!

[Chuck]

my front wing windows look exactly as you describe....I can't even tell if that's a gasket, or vulkem thats oozed its way out. (?). anyway, the windows have been out before, as indicated by the use of olympic rivets. I'd be interested in learning how to fix this problem, too, although the windows don't appear to be leaking. just looks like hell.

[PizzaChop]

Chuck,

I intend to take a look soon at the front wing windows, with considerably more confidence after having the bathroom floor repair job under my belt.

(I was really concerned about drilling out interior rivets to remove interior skin/frames. Ha! I've already worn out my good DeWalt 1/8" bit I've removed so many.)

I'll take some pictures when I do.

I spent quite a bit of time one night searching threads and the gist of it seemed to be that you pretty much needed to trash the inside pane and go with single pane glass, like the new ones.

There was quite a bit of discussion over it but finally Inland Andy weighed in on it, and it seems that the double pane was sort of a faulty design as the gasket would at some time in the future, fail.

(He said something to the effect that separating them could be done (without breaking either) but nobody else knew how to do it and for legal reasons, they (Inland RV) weren't going to start instructing others in the practice.)

There are some pretty good threads, but I haven't seen any pictures of front window repairs.

Good luck! Oh, and congrats on the Superbowl win!

[joel]

Seems like you have gotten great advice about everything. I just helped my friend replace a quarter panel on a 34'. I believe the pre curved panel was about 3-400.00 from a/s. His was not pre drilled but I think they also come that way.Replacing a panel is a 2 person job.Good luck