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TankerIP · 09-22-2009, 07:14 PM

I have started the search for our leak. I need to get this done before I begin the much bigger task of working with the deteriorated OSB in the rear of our 2002 22' AS. Today it rained mightily and an area in the back under the sink that was almost dry is now wet again. I tried to examine carefully the rear area and can see no evidence of broken or seriously deteriorated caulk/sealant. Finally I began to wonder about the bumper. Should there be a good bead of sealant right where the lower band meets the bumper? It certainly gets wet there, but I don't know how that area is connected to the C-Channel and floor area.

HowieE · 09-22-2009, 07:47 PM

If your trailer is like mine that piece of metal goes in under the banana strip and directly under the floor. This caused the floor to rot under one of our beds.

Keep it sealed.

Gkiesel · 09-24-2009, 07:59 PM

There should be a good bead of sealer there. that is a major leak spot. The water sits there on the bumper and just soaks in. Good place for that new Trempro you just ordered. Make sure to clean the old stuff out very good, and wipe the area down with mineral spirits before applying the new stuff.

Isadora · 09-24-2009, 08:29 PM

We took the bumper off our Argosy to clean it up and repaint, and found that there was nothing to protect the floor. The plywood was just sticking out there, open to any rain that would run under the back of the bumper. We sealed it with vulkem and put the bumper back, and then it and under the rub rail before we put it back. I have since also sealed the top of the rub rail all around the trailer because in removing the banana wrap for repairs, we found plywood edges open all along the sides of the trailer also. More Vulkem all along the edge before the banana wrap went back on.

TankerIP · 09-24-2009, 09:15 PM

Thanks Isadora.. your comment, and some other post I read pointed to the possibility that I might have to do some dis-assembly back there. I was hoping all I needed to do was to caulk just right there on the bumper where the rub rail is. Possibly I have to take the rub rail off. I don't know how. Still looking.

Anyone else know the steps to get a good seal in aft end of an Airstream?

Airslide · 09-24-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TankerIP

Thanks Isadora.. your comment, and some other post I read pointed to the possibility that I might have to do some dis-assembly back there. I was hoping all I needed to do was to caulk just right there on the bumper where the rub rail is. Possibly I have to take the rub rail off. I don't know how. Still looking.

Anyone else know the steps to get a good seal in aft end of an Airstream?

You could ask Airstream.. (but I suppose if they knew they would have sealed yours correctly)

This thread has me thinking about mine now. I think this is an area that Im going to have to investigate. If water found its way to the rear bumper on mine I could see where it might puddle up.

TankerIP · 09-25-2009, 03:18 PM

I called Airstream today. The rep confirmed that the seal in the bumper area is behind the rub rail, and "frequently" will work loose to allow water to seep in. He said that the rub rail is screwed on, but as I found out, it's really riveted on. Having no rivet gun (and never having used one). I decided to caulk the rub rail/bumper intersection. I purchased Vulkem 116 (Aluminum Stone tint) yesterday. I will let you be the judge on the color.

I hope now the water that collects on the bumper will run off to the side, rather than into the trailer. Once this sets and I get the inside dried out well, I will run a hose back there (or wait for rain) to see what happens.

One other clue of water seepage is from the sewage holding tank cover. I have an aluminum cover on the tank. After rains it drips water for sometimes a day or so. I first thought I had a leaking tank. In fact, water seeps in from the bumper to the holding tank cover, and may even "fill up" the holding tank cover.

This seems like an area that everyone should check when making sure their trailer is secure. I wish I had. Estimates for repairs now run as high as $6000.

Bowmans · 10-03-2009, 09:14 PM

Tanker,
From the looks of it, your trunk runs right up to the base of the trimline (just like our 1979). Our rear floor was rotted due to water running off the trunk into the flooring right behind the trimline track. You sealed the top of the trimline track but nothing will stop water from going over the trunk but under the trimline track straight into the end of the flooring (if AS didn't improve the design between 1979 and 2002). Riveting the trimline back on is fairly easy and you can get a rivet gun and aluminum rivets (the medium and long shank ones) from Lowe's or Home Depot (or similar place) for about $25 total. Our trimline track was in 2 pieces and met up right in the center of the rear so once we drilled out the rivets across the back, the trimline can be pulled back to see the trunk/wall meeting and allow you to use vulkem to seal off the gap.

Shot of the trimline track pulled of:

This was the inside of our floor looking to the outside when the track was removed. Our gap was huge.

This is where we sealed it with Vulkem:

We also found that there was an aluminum piece inside the trunk, near the top that let water between it and the frame which also went to the base of the flooring. We used the bathroom mirror to see it better since it is on the roof of the trunk space and sealed it of as well.

This shot is odd but it is of a mirror wedged into the trunk at an angle to see the top of the inside of the trunk. Notice the Vulkem bead around where the top of the frame meets the ceiling of the trunk which is aluminum sheet. We also continued the bead on the outside where the aluminum against frame would let water under it.

TankerIP · 10-04-2009, 08:13 PM

Bowmans - I'm amazed at the amount of damage this kind of insidious leak can do. How long do you think your's has been like this?

I put the bead of vulkem securely on the lower part of the trim to make a seal between the bumper and the trim. The top part of the trim still has it's factory installed seal intact. It has been a week now; we've had a lot of rain; and still no leak. The area inside under the cabinets is still dry --- although it is the consistency of sawdust.

I'm going to Jackson Center in a couple of weeks to get it fixed. I'm so sickened that I let myself be fooled by having plastic cover over the carpet under the cabinets. This leak continued for several years, unnoticed. I just hope other owners check this area regularly, and catch it with a simple caulk repair job before it gets bad.

2airishuman · 10-04-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TankerIP

...The area inside under the cabinets is still dry --- although it is the consistency of sawdust.

I'm going to Jackson Center in a couple of weeks to get it fixed...

good luck with this...

sealing the bumper area/trim line is a good thing.

but that particular model doesn't have a belly pan AND the subfloor is OSB...

apparently a/s coats the bottom side of the osb with something and coats the exposed frame members...

but i just can't imagine a coating doing much to protect the osb OR frame in a driving rain or after some use shakes things loose...

imo the real preventive repair is to ADD the belly wrap most (all) other models have.

it's hard to guess how much osb may be soft/crumbly without PULLING much of the lower interior.

IF they are gonna do that (pull the interior) i suggest DITCHING the carpet for solid surface flooring.

good luck and take PICTURES!

we love to look at the a/s operations and transplants.

cheers
2air'

wbrownrr · 10-04-2009, 10:01 PM

Tanker,
Thanks for pointing this out. I haven't seen evidence of a leak here in our AS, but it's an area I'm going to keep an eye on, and will probably apply Vulkem just to be safe.

Bowmans · 10-05-2009, 08:38 AM

Tanker,
We just bought ours in March so I am not sure how long it has been leaking. The PO noticed the leak at some point because he used spray foam on the roadside in the opposite spot where the picture of the gap was taken. That didn't seem to stop the water because that side was rotten and wet as well.

2Air,
I am still learning alot. If not a banana wrap, what is the black cover that goes where the banana wrap usually goes on Tankers AS?

Tadd

Robbie R. · 10-05-2009, 09:34 AM

My 2000 excella has a trunk in back and it seems really dry around all edges and carpet.

No dampness at all inside along edges even after a very hard rain.

To those who are dealing with this issue, should I be concerned and keep an eye around the edges or should I go ahead and seal the bottom section of the trim where bumper meets ?

I am coincered also about sealing water in this area if it were running down behind plastic trim area and I seal the bottom it could hold water in this area and eventually allow it to seep into trunk area...............

Would the dampness be evident inside the trunk/wood edge area if it were leaking

Robbie R.

2airishuman · 10-05-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowmans

If not a banana wrap, what is the black cover that goes where the banana wrap usually goes

hi tadd

from side views 22s have what appears to be banana wrap.

but from the UNDER view it doesn't extend across the bottom as a belly pan/wrap like most modern 'streams.

so the bottom is OPEN like many old cars and trucks, fully exposing the frame rails and osb subfloor in many areas.

basically they've got 'quarter round' skirting, expect were the tanks are covered.

see the pics in the FIRST post of this thread...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...-it-33396.html

the only good thing about no belly wrap is that when the frame starts to fail, it's easier to access for repairs...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ure-48105.html

i'm unaware of any other recent models (besides the 22) that don't have the full under wrap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie R.

...I am coincered also about sealing water in this area if it were running down behind plastic trim area and I seal the bottom it could hold water in this area and eventually allow it to seep into trunk area...

rr'

the issue is covered a bit in this thread, but yes trapping water is not a good thing behind trim or at the rear bumper or front frame/body junction.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f477...ign-23121.html

cheers
2air'

Bowmans · 10-05-2009, 04:58 PM

Thanks for the link 2air. That explains alot! I would expect that exposed OSB, when driving on rain puddled roads, would be dripping wet and swell up easily, wouldn't it?

Robbie,
If mine wasn't leaking (you should be able to see water spots in the wood floor against the wall if it was), I wouldn't open it up to seal it but I would keep a close eye on it. Agreeing again with 2air, sealing the bottom of the trimline bracket is something I would avoid since it would trap water and allow it to seep into the aluminum seam that is behind it. When I sealed mine, I only sealed the seam of the wall to the trunk platform. Then when I put the trimline bracket back on, it is unsealed top and bottom.

TankerIP · 10-05-2009, 08:00 PM

To set the story straight - The OSB, as unsatisfactory as it may be, is thankfully not completely exposed under the 22' trailer. The factory covered the OSB with some form of black vinyl coating that is wrapped up over the edges into the C-channel. This is supposed to provide a water-proof protective coating underneath. As you can see the picture in the post below, most of the floor underneath is actually concealed (and possibly protected) by the 3 tanks that are wrapped in their aluminum boxes.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f476...tml#post743934

I have mixed feelings about not having a belly pan. A belly pan is not completely sealed and water can intrude from ride in rain storms, as people have reported. Without the belly pan I can inspect (and possibly paint) my frame, the visible flooring, plumbing, etc. I do lose the insulation value of the belly pan, but do I need it in Texas? I had one estimate of over $2000 to install a belly pan -- too much for me. I just don't know how much more protection a belly pan would give me. I'm still researching. Comments always appreciated.

Bowmans · 10-05-2009, 10:08 PM

Ahh, the OSB on yours looks covered better than the one in the link 2air had. Maybe they had removed the black covering in the picts during the repair. On occassion, sicne we got our AS in March, have wished I could see the frame without pulling the bellypan and banana wraps off so I guess both have their benefits and disadvantages... and for $2000, I would buy a new fridge and stove before a belly wrap :P

Have you had a rain since the sealing?

Tadd

TankerIP · 10-05-2009, 11:55 PM

Yes...lots of rain (plus I first put my hose on it). All has stayed dry inside. "Wish I knew then, what I know now"

66Overlander · 10-06-2009, 05:50 AM

I don't like that black covering on the bottom of the floor AT ALL. Now WHEN water gets to the OSB, as it inevitably will, the black layer will not let it drip away as would happen with a belly pan several inches below. It will hold the water right at the OSB where it will have a hard time evaporating. This will accelerate the rot.

All Airstreams eventually leak. It may be from the rear bumper area or from a leak higher up travelling down between the walls. The more you travel with your airstream and the more it bumps down the road (vs. being permanently parked in a camp ground or other location), the more chances you will have for a leak to develop as caulk joints crack from vibration and body flex. The key is to actively watch for them and address them as soon as detected.

Also, if you caulk the rear bumper to rub strip gap, you definitely need to caulk the full length of the upper rub strip to body seam to keep water from getting in there and now being trapped behind the rub strip against the wood. And I say caulk the entire length of the upper seam, not just above the bumper, because the water can travel horizontally behind the rub strip.

One last thought, watch that rear bumper gap after the first time you pull the trailer after you caulk the gap (and every time thereafter). If the floor has already rotted, you may already have separation between the frame and body because the bolts pulled thru the soft wood. This may rip your nice caulking job apart the next time you pull it. I know, because that is exactly what happened to us on a previous trailer. There was no way to seal the gap until the body was reattached securely to the frame to keep the gap from moving.

Good Luck!

TankerIP · 10-31-2009, 07:34 PM

I discovered yesterday how it is possible to break a seal and let the water in. I hit a pothole, really hard, in a tremendous rainstorm and that's when the leaks really started.

When I first discovered this problem, I was mystified as to how the water got in. Then after caulking the area and sitting through some pretty strong storms, it remained dry and I thought I had the problem fixed. But also, I wondered if this was because it just the way the trailer was made, or something the owner does to cause the problem. Now I guess I know the answer.

My lesson learned is to watch out for what rough rides or big bumps can do to cause seals to break or come loose.

I'll find out more from Jackson Center in a few days.

The story is here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...-oh-58049.html