Roof flange solutions for 14" x 26" Astrodome roof vent.

[Petethefeet]

Hello everyone, my '64 Sovereign is approaching the point where it is nearly closed in, and the roof vent installations are making their way to the top of the "what is next " list. I have new 14" x 14" vents to go over the smaller voids in the roof, but the larger 14"x 26" ( I think that is right ), had a pretty square and angular roof light which did'nt open ( see pic ), for which I have bought a new astrodome cover as a replacement. My problem is the flange ( again, I think that is right ), that comes off the surface of the roof to beneath the cover is now needed. I have not been able to see any supplier for such a product to date and had thought of grafting two of the old 14"square flanges together to make one at the appropriate dimensions to take the Astrodome cover. Any suggestions anyone?
Pete

[Petethefeet]

I'll take that as a " nope " then.

[boatdoc]

Originally Posted by Petethefeet

I'll take that as a " nope " then.

Hi Petethefeet; Yes it can be done by competent TIG welder however, there are things you must consider first. You are going to end up with an opening which is almost double in length. If you have to cut through one rib, then you must first build a [welded corners] sub frame to reinforce the large opening in the roof. The rib should be attached to it via two vertical angle brackets tying the four components on each side. You cannot afford the weight of the dome to flex the roof or vibrate during towing. If no rib was cut, I would at least weld as wide as possible flat stock on the inside of the two cut frames to reinforce. Thanks, "Boatdoc"

[markdoane]

Pete,

Your idea of joining two frames together sounds like the optimal solution. If you use a little Vulkem sealer and a couple of rivets it will be next to perfect.

[Petethefeet]

Thanks for your advice, I had taken the "2 into 1" idea to my engineer in the meantime to see if it could be welded, he mentioned that it would have to be painted is all. There would not be much visible, so left it with him. But Vulkeming it ( is vulkeming a word? ), and riveting would show even less area to paint and I could do it myself so I'll be trying it that way on my Overlander where I face the same issue and see how it goes. Also the interior trims could be joined the same way maybe. As far as cutting ribs for the opening goes, I can understand what is meant about the roof being located and supported. I took a pic to show you what is there at the moment. "Yes", I was lying on the floor, "No", I was not intoxicated! As you see it, it is what appeared when I stripped the interior lining off , to the left of the opening, you can see 2 ribs slightly overlapping ( that's another question I need to ask..), the cut ribs are offset close to 3/4 of an inch ( 85 mm ), with one rib running to the floor between two jelaousie windows, the other running between jelaousie window and the door. I guess I would make sure any rivets that come through from the astrodome penetrate some framing. If I can ask a question here about the interior skin- does it add to the strength of the trailer if it is installed or not? As in could you line the interior with a different material without reinstalling the aluminum skin first?

[Petethefeet]

Ohh mate, I love that whole " hobbie/ mental illness" line, I look at myself sometimes with regards to the Airstreams and just shake my head and giggle, and think " man, you got it bad!"

[markdoane]

Pete,

I don't know if I'm looking at this correctly, but it appears that the two half-frame bows don't meet at the top. It looks like they miss by about 85mm, as you said, thats about 3.3 inches.

I assume this was done so the frames would align with the windows and door. It just seems to me that the ends of the frames should terminate at a longeron or other structural member.

But that's the way they built 'em, and that's what ya got!

The interior sheet metal is critical to the structural integrity of the trailer. If you want to add a different material you should put it on over the inside skin.

[Petethefeet]

Yes, my mistake, I should have said 3-4 inches apart ( 85 mm center to center ),offset for the ribs. They do overlap somewhat, and as you say, thats what I got,so am not sure I can really improve on it too much ( its been going alright for the last 40 odd years), but am happy to if I can.

So for the interior skin, it seemed to have a variety of different types of rivet used from memory, can I just use the old holes with an appropriate rivet? ( what type?),any special specifications for that work? And would the fiberglass interior endcaps also be part of the integrity of the shell at all.

After what you have said, I'm starting to lean towards just re-installing the interior linings as is ( maybe prepped for painting if it is easier to on the ground before going up), in large part, to try and keep that whole "lightness" thing continuing and to keep it simple.
Pete.

[markdoane]

Pete,

As to the type of rivets, I would just use common 1/8" aluminum pop rivets with aluminum stems.

I can't say whether the endcap is as important as the sidewall and roof. The sides and roof will flex from side to side if the inside walls are missing, but the endcaps have some rigidity just due to their curvature.

I would recommend going up one size, to 5/32", for the endcap rivets. The original holes in the fiberglas tend to be oversized just from inserting and removing the original rivets.

[Motoman]

I could take pictures of the Astrodome and its mounting flange inside and out on our 1960 Traveler and post them in the thread if you like. It would be late tomorrow afternoon or Friday morning. There was a change from the astrodome with the square corners to the one with the round corners in 1965 or 1966. You can see the difference on the Vintage Trailer Supply site: Vintage Trailer Supply - Vintage travel trailer parts and supplies! .

Your should be the same as our 1960 but take a look and I post as soon as I can.

[Petethefeet]

Yes, I would definitely be keen to see a pic of what one should look like. The two surrounds into one was going to end up something close to 26 inches longways from wall to wall ( if that makes any sense). I think the astrodome cover I bought has the rounded corners ( from what you say), and the old/new surround will have the corners shown in the pic in my first post.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Petethefeet

Yes, I would definitely be keen to see a pic of what one should look like. The two surrounds into one was going to end up something close to 26 inches longways from wall to wall ( if that makes any sense). I think the astrodome cover I bought has the rounded corners ( from what you say), and the old/new surround will have the corners shown in the pic in my first post.

Round corner Astrodomes won't fit the square cornered metal frame.

We have the squared cornered Astrodomes, both in milk white and solar gray. They both allow light to enter the trailer. However, the solar gray lets in a nice, soft light.

Andy

[Petethefeet]

Andy, thanks yet again for your input and valuable advice, and I do like the sound of that " soft gray light" coming in, not to mention the insulating value incorporated in their design. However I had bought the round cornered covers some time ago so are working with them in the meantime and the vent surrounds I am recycling have the round corners also, so figure it will be consistent with the smaller ones running along the roof further back. Just as an aside, and for future reference, I can see that the rounded corner covers would not fit on a square cornered frame, but would a square cornered cover, fit on a round cornered frame?

Thanks again to all who have replied to this thread so far..

Pete

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Petethefeet

Andy, thanks yet again for your input and valuable advice, and I do like the sound of that " soft gray light" coming in, not to mention the insulating value incorporated in their design. However I had bought the round cornered covers some time ago so are working with them in the meantime and the vent surrounds I am recycling have the round corners also, so figure it will be consistent with the smaller ones running along the roof further back. Just as an aside, and for future reference, I can see that the rounded corner covers would not fit on a square cornered frame, but would a square cornered cover, fit on a round cornered frame?

Thanks again to all who have replied to this thread so far..

Pete

The round corner vent covers, will only fit the round corner frames.

The square corner vent covers, with fit both the round and square corner frames.

Andy

[Motoman]

Originally Posted by Motoman

I could take pictures of the Astrodome and its mounting flange inside and out on our 1960 Traveler and post them in the thread if you like. It would be late tomorrow afternoon or Friday morning. There was a change from the astrodome with the square corners to the one with the round corners in 1965 or 1966. You can see the difference on the Vintage Trailer Supply site: Vintage Trailer Supply - Vintage travel trailer parts and supplies! .

Your should be the same as our 1960 but take a look and I post as soon as I can.

These are the best I could do since I can't lift a ladder (surgery, nothing over 10 lbs.) to get closer pictures on the roof.

The flange is made up of three sheet aluminum pieces, a "Z" shape that is riveted to the roof, an "inside trim angle" that is riveted to the inside skin and forms the trim piece seen around the astrodome opening and "angle 1" that fits inside of the inside trim angle that closes the opening between the inside and outside skin. I have sketched each sheet metal piece and included dimensions. Note that the vertical length of the inside trim angle could be one or two 1/16" taller to make sure that you don't see a slight gap between the top of the inside trim angle and the bottom of angle 1.

I don't think you can exactly duplicate the rectangular Z shape because it appears to be stretch formed out of a aluminum with the shape and its flanges being bent to form both front and rear 90 degree corners so there is no joint at the corners. However that an be modified by making each side a separate piece and 1. making the lower flange of the "Z" shape overlap at each corner and 2. making the vertical section of the "Z" shape wrap around the corner. A good sheet metal shop should be able to help come up with something that is water tight at the corners.

Also note that the mount for the astrodome vent operator must be fabricated. Let me know if you need dimensions for it.

When assembled the inside dimensions between the inside trim angles are 25-15/16" long and 13 3/4" wide.

[Motoman]

I didn't size the image of the sheet metal shapes that make up the flange assembly properly so it didn't load. Here it is.

Another note, I would buy the proper square cornered astrodome (I seemed to remember that you bought the one with the round corners) if you are going to fabricate this roof flange assembly so that you can make sure that it matches the seal in the astrodome when you are forming and mocking up the upper rectangular "Z" Flange.

[Petethefeet]

Hey Don, thanks so much for taking the time to reply with such great pics and detailed drawings, I will definitely be using your info for reference for the square cornered astrodome when I get to it, I would like to take you up on your kind offer to supply the specs on the vent operator bracket, I have new replacement winders from Inland RV, and was a little mystified in their application, do they allow for an insect screen on those? Thanks again,
Pete

[Motoman]

Originally Posted by Petethefeet

Hey Don, thanks so much for taking the time to reply with such great pics and detailed drawings, I will definitely be using your info for reference for the square cornered astrodome when I get to it, I would like to take you up on your kind offer to supply the specs on the vent operator bracket, I have new replacement winders from Inland RV, and was a little mystified in their application, do they allow for an insect screen on those? Thanks again,
Pete

I'll check the Overlander which still has its Astrodome in place. I think it had a simple screen that was an interference fit into the opening with grommets at each end for the vent lifter shafts to pass through; the knobs on the lifter shafts help keep the screen in place.

[Motoman]

Originally Posted by Motoman

I'll check the Overlander which still has its Astrodome in place. I think it had a simple screen that was an interference fit into the opening with grommets at each end for the vent lifter shafts to pass through; the knobs on the lifter shafts help keep the screen in place.

Here are two pictures of the lifter bracket and a sketch of the dimensions. If you need to talk PM or email me and I'll give you my phone number.

[Petethefeet]

Excellent, with your drawings to work off, and as I am in need of 4 or more, I think I'll have a go at making something like that myself . Great drawings, thanks for that.
Pete