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stonyfork · 07-30-2010, 01:27 PM

I'm installing a fantastic fan in the back of a 72 Sovereign and the directions say connect the wires as such: black to black and white to white. Here's the problem--the wires in the ceiling for the current light/fan (which is the original) are not black and white, but are brown and green instead. So which gets connected to the black and which gets connected to the white on the new Fantastic Fan? Appreciate any help here... thnx.

Splitrock · 07-30-2010, 02:42 PM

I'd check with a multi meter. The one that's 12 volt I'd put to black and I'd run a new white wire to ground to the frame. Was that light run on a wall switch? Or did it have multi use, like light and fan? I'd probably not want to use a switched leg unless that's my only choice. I'd guess it's gonna be black to black and make a new white ground to frame.

stonyfork · 07-30-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitrock

I'd check with a multi meter. The one that's 12 volt I'd put to black and I'd run a new white wire to ground to the frame. Was that light run on a wall switch? Or did it have multi use, like light and fan? I'd probably not want to use a switched leg unless that's my only choice. I'd guess it's gonna be black to black and make a new white ground to frame.

no, it wasn't on a wall switch. It was a multi use fan light. original from the factory. It looked like this one: The Old Light - Remove the covering for the light fixture and expose the fixture. Photo Gallery

Lumatic · 07-30-2010, 03:46 PM

I am a little confused about your description, but I suspect the brown and green wires are "switched legs" as mentioned above. I would consider tracing the circuit back to the feed wires that go into the switch. I bet you will find them white and black. Also if the ceiling light fixture does not already have a fan it is probably prewired for one, but you may have to remove the fixture to find them.

If you pull the old unit are you just putting in a fan or are you putting in new lights too?

stonyfork · 07-30-2010, 05:43 PM

I am replacing the old vent light combo with just a fan. After removing the old unit, I found only these two wires coming from the ceiling of the trailer and they are one white and one purple (these were then connected to the brown and green wires and directly to the light/vent). This light is (was) on the 12 volt line as it is like the other 12 volt lights in the trailer, and matches the light/fan combo in the front/gaucho are exactly, only minus the fan. I'm just finishing up getting the unit in and sealed. I've got the wires capped for now and if need be can leave them that way till I can get an electrician...thought this doesn't seem like it could be that complicated. Is it possible the white is is the gound and the purple is the black, i.e. the positive? will check back in a little bit.

Dave Park · 07-30-2010, 05:50 PM

I just wired my fantastic fan up reversed to test, and it was not harmed by reversed wiring - the fan just runs the wrong direction and the vent didn't open.

One of the cool things about DC and inductive loads.

YMMV.

Lumatic · 07-30-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonyfork

I am replacing the old vent light combo with just a fan. After removing the old unit, I found only these two wires coming from the ceiling of the trailer and they are one white and one purple (these were then connected to the brown and green wires and directly to the light/vent). This light is (was) on the 12 volt line as it is like the other 12 volt lights in the trailer, and matches the light/fan combo in the front/gaucho are exactly, only minus the fan. I'm just finishing up getting the unit in and sealed. I've got the wires capped for now and if need be can leave them that way till I can get an electrician...thought this doesn't seem like it could be that complicated. Is it possible the white is is the gound and the purple is the black, i.e. the positive? will check back in a little bit.

99.9% your white wire is a ground. Most of the main wires in the wiring harness are 10-12 ga white or red. Sometimes positive in an airstream can be black. The wiring harness on yours probably runs next to the vent hole and you should see it if you pull out some fiberglass. Be careful not to nick the wires enlarging your vent hole. Disconnect the battery as a precaution.

Someone above mentioned a multimeter. For the purpose of finding + or - a simple test light will also work.

You could consider at this point adding a ceiling light especially a florescent or more better an LED which will have a negligible draw.

It's not rocket science, just common sense. If you can put in the fan you should be able to figure out the wiring on your own.

Minno · 07-30-2010, 07:41 PM

Stonyfork,

Here's the original 12 volt circuits from our ’72 Sovereign (taken from the service manual):

Circuit # - Wire Color - Amp - Function
1 - purple - 20 - rear vent lights, bath lights, bath 12v outlet, rear trunk light
2 - yellow - 20 - bath fan, bed shelf lights, side trunk light, center ceiling light
3 - pink - 20 - bed 12 v outlet, oven light, galley roof locker light, center vent light
4 - brown - 20 - range hood fan, living 12 v outlet, out door light, out flood light, front vent light, sofa roof locker lights
5 - blue - 40 - 3 roof vent fans, stereo, control panel, water pump, car battery feed

Thought it might help. The main point being that the two wires you found are actually on two different circuits if you have the original wiring and fuse panel.

Chris

Lumatic · 07-30-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonyfork

I am replacing the old vent light combo with just a fan. After removing the old unit, I found only these two wires coming from the ceiling of the trailer and they are one white and one purple (these were then connected to the brown and green wires and directly to the light/vent).

This makes sense now. It fits with Minno's color codes. Purple is for the rear light/vent unit. Wish my 71 was coded like that. Can't say fur sure without being there but I think you have the right wires. Purple is positive and white negative. Hook er up if it works you've got it right, if you blow a fuse you don't. There are 110 wires up there but if the wires you refer to were hooked to the lights they have to be 12v dc and on the same circuit unless some other bozo screwed the wiring up. But the lights worked, right? If you wear a belt and suspenders you will probably check the voltage with a multimeter, and if it is 110 and you check with an auto test light the test bulb will go supernova and then poof.

stonyfork · 07-31-2010, 12:13 AM

Sorry for the delay in getting back with an update. At a certain point you have to stop, shower, eat.

And all of that happened after getting the fan inplace with the butyl tape and sealant. I tested the wires and low and behold they were dead, so I capped them off and left the interior trim piece off---which the Fantastic Fan people call the "garnish." (For some reason that just cracks me up big time. I mean really...can you imagine yelling "Hey hon, can you come here for a sec, I need a hand with the garnish for the fan." yeah, me neither. Seems like someone who wrote those directions maybe worked in a kitchen a bit longer than planned...)

Anyway, seems I may need an electrician afterall. I'd had some probs with the light being intermittant, sometimes working, sometimes not. I'd assumed it was a problem with the 3way switch on the light as it didn't seem right and I figured I be correcting the prob with the switch when I swapped the vent/light for the fantastic fan. Now it appears the problem goes deeper and wasn't the switch afterall. I know the fuse is ok, so now I'll have to explore whats going on with the other items on that circuit.

Thanks much for the color codes of the 12V wiring...that answers my question and now gives me a clear direction where to look as I pursue this deeper problem. And you must know you made any futrure 12v endeavor much much easier....gracias. (Maybe I should splurge on one of those service manuals...hmmm.

Thanks again for the quick and timely help. I'll update as I go with regard to getting this fan working. At least it looks great and the manual vent works. Just please don't let it leak...

stonyfork · 07-31-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minno

Stonyfork,

Here's the original 12 volt circuits from our ’72 Sovereign (taken from the service manual):

Circuit # - Wire Color - Amp - Function
1 - purple - 20 - rear vent lights, bath lights, bath 12v outlet, rear trunk light
2 - yellow - 20 - bath fan, bed shelf lights, side trunk light, center ceiling light
3 - pink - 20 - bed 12 v outlet, oven light, galley roof locker light, center vent light
4 - brown - 20 - range hood fan, living 12 v outlet, out door light, out flood light, front vent light, sofa roof locker lights
5 - blue - 40 - 3 roof vent fans, stereo, control panel, water pump, car battery feed

Thought it might help. The main point being that the two wires you found are actually on two different circuits if you have the original wiring and fuse panel.

Chris

Actually the brown and green were just short pieces used to extend the purple and white wires. I cut those short extensions off once I got the original vent/light loose enough to trace back to the source.

Minno · 08-02-2010, 11:17 AM

Now that you mention it, I do remember all sorts of short different color wires that connected the various fixtures to the wiring harness. I didn’t pay too much attention to any of it really since we were gutting our trailer completely and re-wiring her. Glad the information was helpful, and will help you with future projects!

Chris

polarlyse · 08-03-2010, 07:41 PM

Sorry I cannot add to your inquiry about the wiring. I haven't gotten that far just yet. But I do have a question regarding the fantastic fan installation. My fan crapped out last week on our return trip from out west. It is the original roofvent unit with the florescent lighting. The crank mechanism failed and I could not close the lid. I pulled the interior unit down and manually closed and tied the vent closed. I wish to replace it with a new fantastic unit. I'll probably do the one in the rear also at the same time. Did you need to enlarge the opening to make the new one fit properly ??? My opening is about 13.5" square. I'm hoping not to need to make it any larger but if there is no other way, oh well.

Appreciate hearing just what you ran into.

Thanks,

PS: Did you install any auxillary lighting in place of the old lights ???

Minno · 08-04-2010, 11:12 AM

Hi Polarlyse,

Yes, you will need to enlarge the opening to a 14” x 14” opening. Not as drastic as it sounds. If you want, you can look at some installtion pictures of new vent fans we installed here (post 71) http://www.airforums.com/forums/f185/little-girl-refurb-50967-6.html. Granted we have the inner skins off, so it was a tad easier to cut the outer shell from the inside. We replaced all 3 vents - 2 with fans and the center one without. All 3 openings needed to be enlarged.

Chris

NashBuff · 08-04-2010, 12:25 PM

Roger, we have an 85 Excella as well. I have recently put in 2 fantastic fans. To make the openings bigger you need really good tin snips and gloves. Watch out for the wires that run along the curb side in the front and the other side in the rear. How would I know, yep. You will be so happy you put these in. They work great and add a ton of light. I bought some replacement lights and I have not put them up yet. When it gets cooler I am going to put one in the middle also, or just a new cap.
I don't have the model number handy but we got the smoke color cover outside and it looks sharp.
Also got the rain sensor which works great for us. Get the off white interior with the curved top.

NashBuff · 08-04-2010, 12:42 PM

Found the model it's 6000 RBT

polarlyse · 08-04-2010, 02:28 PM

Thanks for the photos. Looks to be a pretty straightforward job so long as previous owners haven't made a mess of prior work. Is there any problems getting on the roof to work up there ???? I've just never felt too comfortable about climbing up there. I need to take out the screws / rivits holding the old vents in from the top and clean up the sealent ups there so I can enlarge the opening a little bit. I plan to take a tip to Camping world tomorrow to check out the fans they have on hand. I may just try things out before installing any supplementary lighting. The one in the rear hasn't worked since we got the trailer and I don't miss it. We did use the one in the front but will have to see if we miss it enough to need to replace the lighting.

Thanks again for sharing your efforts.

pinktrailer · 08-04-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Park

I just wired my fantastic fan up reversed to test, and it was not harmed by reversed wiring - the fan just runs the wrong direction and the vent didn't open.

One of the cool things about DC and inductive loads.

YMMV.

I did the same thing with mine, as both wires were white, one heavier than the other. It didn't harm anything.........

polarlyse · 08-04-2010, 02:52 PM

I just answered my own question. It's a wonder what a little exploration can tell you on this site. Thanks all. I'll get the fans and then begin to tackle the job. It's not rocket science after all. It's just a bit scary to think about climbing up on the roof and cutting holes in the top. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Minno · 08-04-2010, 02:58 PM

Stay on the ribs as much as possible, and stay off the end caps! Some padding, such as old carpet, will do a lot to protect the skin from the ladder. Some 1/2" or thicker plywood to distribute your weight can be helpful too, but be careful so you don't end up sliding off the roof on top of the plywood. In general, be careful and you should be fine.

Good luck!