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Soyboy · 09-28-2008, 12:41 PM

One thing I like about AS vs most SOB's is that most of the windows have the "full tilt" feature where they swing out from the top. It almost seems to be a standard feature on older AS models, but on some of the newer models they seem to have the 1/3 window like the typical SOB (such as some of mine). Why is this, is it a money saving thing? Do some folks perfer the 1/3 style window? If so, why? Are the Hehr's better quality than the full tilt windows? Or does Hehr make the full tilt windows too?

I am curious about this as I am lobbying my wife to move on from our Hybrid to an enclosed trailer, preferably an AS. But she says she will miss the "open-ness" of the HTT. I tell her the AS has big wide opening windows (except for the 1/3 models). FYI: I will say that there are things about an enclosed trailer that she does like too.

CanoeStream · 09-28-2008, 12:51 PM

From my '74 Argosy to my current SE Safari, I flat out prefer the full opening windows. Pull into a campsite after a warm day traveling, open the windows in a bit of breeze and it starts taking out the heat fairly quickly. I'd be glad to hear other opinions but maybe Hehrs are just a more economical alternative? A friend has those and he's disappointed with the circulation. I might be wrong but the International CCDs and Safari SEs of this decade were the first time in a while that anything but the Classic had the full opening windows. Full opening windows are just better for sales IMO.

TBRich · 09-28-2008, 01:44 PM

CCDs, and Safari SEs (now called Flying clouds in 2009) have the full opening windows...it's a nice feature...and the air circulation is good...

purman · 09-28-2008, 04:33 PM

I think it's a money saving thing.. My friends have a '04 safari and it has just those 1/3 openers... He wishes he had my full open windows....

pienjim · 09-29-2008, 06:14 AM

When, I purchased my Safari in '04 the salesman said that the 1/3 openers were the primary cost saving item in the Safari line. At that time Airstream was interested in producing a lower cost model.

The full windows definitely give more ventilation. I did have a retired deputy sheriff tell me that his full windows had been used to gain entry in a couple of breakins in his rig. He figured that the 1/3 openers made that harder.

Jim

rickandsandi · 09-29-2008, 06:24 AM

Yes, the difference between the two window types is a cost savings and weight. The Corning windows are quite more expensive and heavier. We have seen several folks change out the Hehr windows for the full tit outs. Another difference between the two is gasket fit vs. rivited in. Another issue between the two types of windows is interior space. The window frame on the inside needs complete exposure. In many of the units using the Hehr windows they have overhead cabinets above them or just covering the top few inches of the window. This does not allow the opening mechanism to open the window fully.

**moosetags** · 09-29-2008, 07:20 AM

I like the third opening windows. It gives me a clear view out on the upper two thirds without the screen. I also like the extra security that this type window provides.

Brian

purman · 09-29-2008, 08:31 AM

I hate to burst bubbles here, but the 1/3 windows do not add much security... If they are planing on braking into your AS the window is not going to stop them... Leave the roof vents open for venting not your windows, if you are worrying about this....

It came down to airstream cutting costs and making more money, thats the bottom line... It's sad to say, but more and more American companies are interested in making more money than a better product..... There getting greedy, how much do they need to make????

I have started to buy American made, I don't shop at Wall Mart all that much any more if I can get it somewhere else...

Chaco Sandals were made in Paonia Colorado... Now they are shipping everything of to China, I will not buy them anymore....

I will stop the rant, but AS is doing the same thing... I don't believe my friends '04 AS will last 40 years like my '68 has,,, It is just not the same quality....

rickandsandi · 09-29-2008, 09:36 AM

Hi Jason- I can't agree with you 100% on this one:
It came down to airstream cutting costs and making more money, thats the bottom line... It's sad to say, but more and more American companies are interested in making more money than a better product..... There getting greedy, how much do they need to make????
What Airstream did was offer options to their customers. Not really cut corners or put more money in their pockets. We have a Safari which has Hehr windows. Not a bad window at all, just different. We could have had the Corning tilts if we wanted to puchase another model. Our Safari was less expensive than the International because of weight saving methods and such things as different windows. The savings between the Hehr and the Corning is seen in the price tag of the unit.

Soyboy · 09-29-2008, 09:44 AM

Well if I am going to make the "switch" I guess I'll have to look for a model with the Corning windows as we like the openness they have. My wife in particular is a stickler for that. As a matter of fact, she would likely just as well keep the Jayco. But she has not been it any AS trailers yet, once she does......aluminitus will likely set in. I always have to lobby for the "toys" I what anyway.....don't we all

.

Security.... as to camping and compared to our current hybrid trailer the full opening windows would be like for Knox. currently anyone can get into our trailer by un-buttoning the tent ends. Not much of an issue most places we camp. Any real valuables, such as a laptop, stay locked in the truck when not in use.

At home, well fortunatly, where we live now, our trailer is in a pretty secure place and I could leave the windows open when the weather was good, as I do on our SOB. We live in the historic district of Frederick, MD and are lucky to be able to park it off street behind our house in a private fenced lot. It's a bit of a pain backing the trailer in off of the street, got to make a couple of "S" turns while backing down a driveway with 6 foot faux iron fences on each side (which will likely "limit" us to a 28' length max, due to the angles), but once it's in there it's off the beaten path and out of site from most of the street. Of course now I have jinxed myself and the trailer will be ransacked when I get home!

But I digress....

Currently, depending on the economy towards next spring and if I still have a job

(I am in banking - commercial real estate area - who knows what will happen over the next 6-9 months, our bank is now on the target screen for one of the "new" commercial banks such as Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanely to buy, even though we are not "tubing", we just have an attractive "footprint") we will likely be looking at late '90s maybe early '00s. Don't know if we will be able to spring for the "CCD" era. I like the more classic style interiors anyway (the CCDs are cool though). On the newer trailers I prefer the standard Safari wood interior. However, from the earlier post in this thread, I have a feeling that we would be "stuck" with the 1/3 windows with that interior. I guess to get the Corning windows on a later model, we would have to go with the CCD.

This is why forums are great. Compared to years ago when you were almost running blind, nowdays you can get on-line and obtain opinions about anything you are interested in purchasing, visiting or fixing. Of course opinions are like you know whats, everybody has won, but most have proven to be valuable.

Minnie's Mate · 09-29-2008, 11:33 AM

Soyboy, if you like the interior wood of the Safari and want a newer trailer with the tilt-out windows, you can go with an SE model. They combine the "wood" from the Safari with the bare aluminum inner skin of the CCD's and have the tilt-out windows and most have wrap around windows on at least one end.

For 2009, the Safari name has been retired again and replaced with the Flying Cloud name and includes both the tilt-out windows and at least on wrap around end window as standard. Same product as the Safari SE. The Safari Sport has been re-named simply "Airstream Sport" and is the only product in 2009 that has the Hehr windows. The two or three Sport models are available with the tilt-out windows and wrap front windows as options.

urbanfood · 09-29-2008, 11:37 AM

i like the idea of the full open windows. anyway to make these work in a vintage unit? i.e. my 56 flying cloud that i'll be drilling out, reglazing all the windows, etc.

does anyone have a picture of the full opening, i can't picture if it's got a frame or not or if it looks to modern for vintage.

Minnie's Mate · 09-29-2008, 12:00 PM

What really brightens up the interior are the vista views that are above (and below) some of the tilt-outs. Those located above have pleated shades that can cover the vistas to keep out too much sun, but bear in mind that they were absent from certain year models before being brought back. I don't know which years didn't have them, though.

Soyboy · 09-29-2008, 01:15 PM

Minnie's Mate: Thanks for the info, I looked at the new Flying Cloud recently, I like the look but not the price tag. That's why I'll be looking at older models. When I do look around, I'll be keeping an eye out for the types of windows in the unit. I also like the Vista View windows.

rickandsandi · 09-29-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanfood

i like the idea of the full open windows. anyway to make these work in a vintage unit? i.e. my 56 flying cloud that i'll be drilling out, reglazing all the windows, etc.

does anyone have a picture of the full opening, i can't picture if it's got a frame or not or if it looks to modern for vintage.

You can go to Colonials site and see photos of the outside of a few of the units. You can purchase through your dealer the window units which include the frame which needs to be rivited into the two skins. They are much larger than any vintage window and of a different shape.

Silvertwinkie · 09-29-2008, 04:15 PM

The HEHR windows (and I have them) are just pure garbage. The don't seal well, some of my windows had no seals at all. The only way to get really good airflow is with the 2 fantastic vents on. Then I have similar cross breeze as the full tilt windows. About the only redeeming quality to them is that you'd have to break the glass to get into the Airstream. I have heard many folks say that the full open windows are easy to unlock from the outside. Still, I'd much rather have those windows. I have been contemplating having mods done to my unit because at this point, it's already taken a good depreciation hit and to trade off and get a good used one, still will give me a hit, so at this point, in this economy, I'm not doing anything any time soon, but at least I have the Twinkie....everything else is gravy......

kamadeca · 09-29-2008, 05:39 PM

i noticed in this thread a couple of people have suggested that they might want to replace the 1/3 windows with full tilt windows. I posted a question a while back about this and didn't get a favourable response.

Being determined I then went directly to Airstream and the service department there did not recommend doing this due to the high cost (still cheaper than a new Airstream!) and the fact that you may not get windows that will fit properly. I guess they cut the size for the windows depending on which model they are producing. (i.e. I have a Safari 25 SS - they also make an International in the same size, but the windows are different sizes)

Regards,

SafariSS · 09-29-2008, 06:13 PM

Many of the window sizes are very close. I know from researching the ones on my Bunkhouse 30 that they all cross reference size wise with the Corning windows. Rich Luhr has done this change (with the help of Roger Williams Airstream), and the overall width and height were good, just the radius of the corners needed to be trimmed.

Basically it is 400-600 per window and around 350 bucks in labor for such. I have contemplated changing the larger windows in my bunkhouse for great ventilation, but I already have half of the cost of my unit in mods that are invested in a low popularity model!!

Silvertwinkie · 09-29-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SafariSS

Many of the window sizes are very close. I know from researching the ones on my Bunkhouse 30 that they all cross reference size wise with the Corning windows. Rich Luhr has done this change (with the help of Roger Williams Airstream), and the overall width and height were good, just the radius of the corners needed to be trimmed.

Basically it is 400-600 per window and around 350 bucks in labor for such. I have contemplated changing the larger windows in my bunkhouse for great ventilation, but I already have half of the cost of my unit in mods that are invested in a low popularity model!!

I agree 110%. I was in contact with Rich on his as well and I too contacted the factory. They told me they had never done this before and quoted me similar prices to what has been discussed here. Again, still less expensive than a new or pre-owned Airstream and I know that mine has been pampered. At some point I may do a few of the windows, maybe the front and back to start. I bought off eBay the front 30" window in the frame, but none of this is going to happen for a few years at this point. Economy is just outright beyond bad right now and cash is king right now, so if you have, hang onto it!

As for a low popularity, I would disagree, the 30' was a great unit...I simply don't think Airstream did enough to make it known it was out there, then high fuel prices started and from what I understand, they don't even make many 31s and 34s...sure they are still built, but I'd been hearing nowhere near what they might have been building 2-4 years ago......If they only made that in an SE model, I may have bitten.....

urbanfood · 09-29-2008, 06:59 PM

although i'm not the OP, thanks for the replies. i'm only thinking of replacing the front window with a full tilt as i don't currently have a front window at all. i don't think these things are that complex, i wondered if it's possible to make one from scratch (or have someone locally like a sheet metal guy do the frame and i install the glass). the only problem is the hardware details.