Starlink in the woods?

[FilmGuy]

We live in Maine, and the majority of our camping is in fairly wooded campgrounds—state parks and the like throughout the Northeast. For those of you who use Starlink, are you able to get a reliable signal in that kind of environment? Or does the system really require wide open skies?

[BreadNCircus]

It needs fairly open skies. In my experience, the more northerly your latitude, the higher it points.

Picture a dome with a center at about 160-170 degrees pointing north. It was lower in, for example, AZ.

We just camped in some trees in MN. It worked pretty well with about 30 percent of that dome blocked by trees. We got a drop out of 5 sec every 5 mins.

With AppleTV, we could stream 4K uninterrupted because it buffers enough.

I’ve had more of the dome blocked, and it was not so good. The drops get too long and you can’t stream consistently.

At lower angles (again, lower latitudes, in my experience) the tree blocking potential is very high. Lots of drop-outs.

Heavy rain also pretty well shuts it down, too.

If you mainly want browsing-type internet more than streaming, much of this won’t matter a whole lot. I think for that it would be acceptable in all but moderate to heavy tree cover.

Just know it must see a fair amount of the sky’s dome to work.

M & K

[Ephraim]

Originally Posted by FilmGuy

We live in Maine, and the majority of our camping is in fairly wooded campgrounds—state parks and the like throughout the Northeast. For those of you who use Starlink, are you able to get a reliable signal in that kind of environment? Or does the system really require wide open skies?

While we live in the Southwest which is mostly open, we often visit mountain RV parks, especially in the summer to get away from the heat. Trees do create issues for Starlink. Our Starlink is mounted on this pole which extends to 25'. That has been enough height to get us a decent link in all but one campground where we just had a bad site. You don't have to get above the trees, but just high enough to give a better view for Dishy. Most of the time, we only extend the pole to the height of the roofline.

[JeffKim]

A data point: Pictured is our Bambi last year when we got so-so reception in moderate tree cover. In this scenario we were getting drops every 10 minutes or so. I was using a Remote Desktop for work and it was annoying, but I managed to work for a week remotely in the Bighorn Mountains with no cell. So I consider that a win. I think we had 80% of the sky open but to the East there were a lot of trees, which I think was the issue. From there we went to the Tetons and had an open campsite with no drops or issues.

Our new Globetrotter is in the shop (bent axle) but I will be using the same HF pole with it. The rationale for the multi-million dollar GT was that we could travel and work remotely, Starlink was part of the equation.

[FilmGuy]

Originally Posted by Ephraim

While we live in the Southwest which is mostly open, we often visit mountain RV parks, especially in the summer to get away from the heat. Trees do create issues for Starlink. Our Starlink is mounted on this pole which extends to 25'. That has been enough height to get us a decent link in all but one campground where we just had a bad site. You don't have to get above the trees, but just high enough to give a better view for Dishy. Most of the time, we only extend the pole to the height of the roofline.

That’s quite a mast! What kind is it?

[Ephraim]

I bought it on Amazon. I think Harbor freight also Carrie’s it.

25FT Telescoping Flag Pole Kit, Extra Thick Heavy Duty Telescopic Flagpole Fly 2 Flags, Outdoor Aluminum Inground Flag Poles with 3x5 American Flag, Golden Ball Top for Residential,Yard or Commercial https://a.co/d/8XEUlwM

You can see our build here:

https://youtu.be/tKC9EXmUx7A

[cazual6]

You may want to get a pole and extend it as high as possible.

https://youtu.be/yP1sU2PmXqI


And this is how you get the wire out of the AS

https://youtu.be/psYzyrZGEhI

[MMCMRET]

When we first installed at our home (February), there was not any issue. In April and May the leaves came out and we had interruptions. Moved the receiver to get a clearer view of the north sky and reception is perfect. Leaves and trees do make a difference.

Thanks for the link Ephram.

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

A data point: Pictured is our Bambi last year when we got so-so reception in moderate tree cover. In this scenario we were getting drops every 10 minutes or so. I was using a Remote Desktop for work and it was annoying, but I managed to work for a week remotely in the Bighorn Mountains with no cell. So I consider that a win. I think we had 80% of the sky open but to the East there were a lot of trees, which I think was the issue. From there we went to the Tetons and had an open campsite with no drops or issues.

Our new Globetrotter is in the shop (bent axle) but I will be using the same HF pole with it. The rationale for the multi-million dollar GT was that we could travel and work remotely, Starlink was part of the equation.

... forgot to add our 148lb Newfoundland is blocking in the second picture - that might be an issue (ha ha).

[Vlamgat]

Many misconceptions here. Starlink is a constellation of thousands of satellites. They are not situated in the "North" but cover most of the US, EU and soon a good part of Asia. But there are many more to be launched before it will be a reliable 24/7 service accessible everywhere in the US. It needs an open sky to see satellites because the signal it receives is being handed over from an adjoining satellite and that hand over depends on the adjoining satellite being functional which it will not always be the case. So the system looks for another and if its obscured by leaves, trees, buildings or just too low, the signal will drop. The system is not self sustaining depending on Wall St and its love of everything that Elon does to continue the build out. If funding slows down, so will the improvement in reliability. Which just like 5G cell service will probably be focused on population centers where subscribers live. In may respects the antithesis of the RV community.

[xpcdoojk]

Originally Posted by Vlamgat

Many misconceptions here. Starlink is a constellation of thousands of satellites. They are not situated in the "North" but cover most of the US, EU and soon a good part of Asia. But there are many more to be launched before it will be a reliable 24/7 service accessible everywhere in the US. It needs an open sky to see satellites because the signal it receives is being handed over from an adjoining satellite and that hand over depends on the adjoining satellite being functional which it will not always be the case. So the system looks for another and if it’s obscured by leaves, trees, buildings or just too low, the signal will drop. The system is not self sustaining depending on Wall St and its love of everything that Elon does to continue the build out. If funding slows down, so will the improvement in reliability. Which just like 5G cell service will probably be focused on population centers where subscribers live. In may respects the antithesis of the RV community.

And yet, it is not readily available in high population areas, but completely available in low population areas. Do you camp in big cities?

[Ephraim]

Originally Posted by Vlamgat

Many misconceptions here. Starlink is a constellation of thousands of satellites. They are not situated in the "North" but cover most of the US, EU and soon a good part of Asia. But there are many more to be launched before it will be a reliable 24/7 service accessible everywhere in the US. It needs an open sky to see satellites because the signal it receives is being handed over from an adjoining satellite and that hand over depends on the adjoining satellite being functional which it will not always be the case. So the system looks for another and if its obscured by leaves, trees, buildings or just too low, the signal will drop. The system is not self sustaining depending on Wall St and its love of everything that Elon does to continue the build out. If funding slows down, so will the improvement in reliability. Which just like 5G cell service will probably be focused on population centers where subscribers live. In may respects the antithesis of the RV community.

You need an open sky in a northward direction. Not because the satellites are in the north (they are available in the entire sky) but because it shares a frequency with some other geosynchronous satellites. The FCC mandates that they can only use the northern(ish) sky in the US to avoid potential interference. Other countries may have different rules. The dishes are capable of beam steering which is why the mobile platform can lay flat, but they are still only allowed to communicate in a northern direction in the US.

It's the typical game ALL ISPs play. You need lots of customers to pay for the infrastructure. Too many customers will overload the infrastructure and customers will leave. It's a balancing act to find the right number of customers vs the existing infrastructure so that they are pushed just to the point of being ready to quit, but not so frustrated that they actually quit. that allows maximum utilization of the funds to roll out more infrastructure.

Starlink is divided into regular size cells and each cell is only allowed so many customers. Due to population density, the urban (and close to urban) cells fill up more quickly than the rural cells leading to the impression that Starlink targets the rural areas. they don't. They target individual cells. when the cells are full, you either wait for someone to vacate a position or Starlink adds more capacity by adding more satellites.

Starlink will never have enough capacity to handle all demand in urban areas. that would be foolish because the vast majority of their network would be underutilized then.

[Vlamgat]

Originally Posted by xpcdoojk

And yet, it is not readily available in high population areas, but completely available in low population areas. Do you camp in big cities?

Almost never. My tests of Starlink were not reliable so I am remaining with Iridium

[Poconotexan]

As others have noted, yes, you have to have a mostly clear northern-ish sight line with Starlink due to US laws. While not RVing, we use our RV Starlink for our barndominium Internet in southeast Texas. We have a huge oak tree that causes us some disruption every minute according to the Starlink app where we have the Starlink mounted to the roof of our barndo. However, we’ve never seen a disruption with our streaming, or Zooming so we are happy campers at home. The extendable flag pole is really a good idea when you don’t know what the foliage will be like at your campsite. We have a flag pole “foot “that goes under any tire of our tow vehicle (that we also use for tailgating). That foot gives us some flexibility to move the Starlink around. We have about 10 to 11 feet of extra cord in the Basecamp for or this purpose.

[BreadNCircus]

That “foot” under the wheel sounds like a great idea.

We’ve used a Flagpole Buddy pole with the Starlink adapter attached to the jack stand and it’s been great. But, flexibility to pick a side further back would be a great option when maneuvering Dishy in the trees.

Send a pic of the design when you can!

TIA

M & K

[Poconotexan]

Originally Posted by BreadNCircus

That “foot” under the wheel sounds like a great idea.

We’ve used a Flagpole Buddy pole with the Starlink adapter attached to the jack stand and it’s been great. But, flexibility to pick a side further back would be a great option when maneuvering Dishy in the trees.

Send a pic of the design when you can!

TIA

M & K

Here is a link. https://www.flagandbanner.com/produc...tire-mount.asp

Portable tire mount flag pole stand

Prices range from $62-$260 at this supplier where we purchased ours.

[Launce]

I'm thinking along similar lines, but instead of the tire foot mount, I'm thinking of trying a hitch-mount flagpole holder. Seems sturdy, and that way I can reposition the pole just by moving the tow vehicle around the campsite.


https://a.co/d/gZSAsqM