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09-29-2009, 02:48 PM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
1988 25' Excella
New Bern
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 19
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HD TV antenna ( what is being done?)
What are people doing to replace there old TV antennas? I'm assuming the old ones can not be made useable.
Gary Gowans 4048
New Bern, NC
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09-29-2009, 02:54 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2000 31' Land Yacht
Central
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,489
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Why? Same signal will work on new sets or with converter box on old sets.
There is a part that can be added to the wing to make it a better uhf antenna, but when signals are available the old antenna works fine.
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09-29-2009, 02:59 PM
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#3
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2 Rivet Member
2000 28' Excella
Stewartstown
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 21
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If you have one of the batwing antennas you can purchase and additional antenna from Camping World or the like that just snaps on the base of the batwing. No wires or connections. The signal is coupled to the amplifier in your antenna. It seems to work fine and allows you to recieve stations in a weeker or distant location.
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09-29-2009, 03:09 PM
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#4
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4 Rivet Member
1962 28' Ambassador
1962 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Webster Groves
, Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frlcad5
If you have one of the batwing antennas you can purchase and additional antenna from Camping World or the like that just snaps on the base of the batwing. No wires or connections. The signal is coupled to the amplifier in your antenna. It seems to work fine and allows you to recieve stations in a weeker or distant location.
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Links? Pictures?
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09-29-2009, 03:20 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1967 22' Safari
1960 Caravel
Edmonds
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,499
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Snakeoil!
Digital and analog TV broadcasts use the same frequencies and antennas. Digital TV is more fussy about signal quality than the older analog signals. So if you get marginal analog reception, figure on getting a new antenna for digital. Be careful, You may spend a lot of money on a new "better" antenna and end up with the same reception.
The idea that there are special HDTV antennas is just marketing hype.
__________________
Lee
1973 F-250 4X4 390
1965 Chevy Suburban 454
AIR 6030
WBCCI 4258
TCT
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09-29-2009, 03:50 PM
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#6
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,410
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__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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09-29-2009, 03:58 PM
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#7
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,410
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As noted by Lee, digital TV for the most part is being broadcast on the UHF frequencies. UHF does not propagate over distances as well as VHF which means the the broadcasters have to use higher power, and you as a receiver of those signals need to have a decent UHF antenna. The batwing antenna from Winegard that is on the newer trailers can receive UHF signals. Winegard makes a snap on unit that can enhance UHF signals.
The bottom line is that unless you can get that antenna up high enough you may have problems in receiving signals in areas where VHF reception was available. I was up in Door County Wisconsin this summer and UHF reception is bad. Very few of us could get reliable signals. In the year's past we always got VHF, albeit not crystal clear.
Understand that claims of 100% strength improvement by the antenna manufacturers may still not allow you to get a strong enough signal to allow viewing.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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09-29-2009, 09:18 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2006 28' Safari SE
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 703
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I'll get back to you...
I plan on trying my plain old 2006 Winegard Sensar at the Balloon Fiesta Rally this weekend. It will be coupled to our new (replaced the original Sony) Samsung HDTV. If it is marginal I will pop for the Winegard Wingman. I'm betting it is fine. For starters we will be line of site to the transmitters on Sandia Crest in Albuquerque. In fact I bet the old antenna on our 81 Excella Motorhome will work just fine with an HDTV too. Won't have that test completed until Thanksgiving.
-Ken
__________________
4CU Charter Member
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09-29-2009, 09:28 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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The original antenna on our '65 Caravel does just fine with digital. As stated before, any antenna that will pick up UHF should do OK with digital. The previous owner of our '83 Excella installed the latest, greatest Winegard which has no provision for the addition used on the "batwing" and does fine as well.
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09-29-2009, 09:42 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2008 27' Classic FB
1959 22' Flying Cloud
fairview
, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 575
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Ken you won't have any problems at the balloon fiesta. I get great reception here in Espanola. I did put the wingman on mine and do get better reception at Heron but make no real differance in Espanola.
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09-30-2009, 06:42 AM
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#11
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1 Rivet Member
1999 28' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Northfield
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19
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Your present antenna should work fine...When TV stations converted to Digital, they moved to HIGHER frequencies...(UHF) the frequencies are still receivable by most TV antennas without change...However many (if not all) digital stations also REDUCED power !! This creates a double whammy...Digital reception is kind of like an FM radio...It works or not...No in between... Analog allowed you to get an almost good picture and still watch it (If you could see it thru the snow)
The Weingard batwing add on allows your Batwing antenna to be MORE directional at UHF frequencies...Thus, capture a picture that would otherwise not be viewable..
Kind of like changing the focus on a flashlight (like a Mag light)...It concentrates the beam (reception) but does not increase there amount of "light"...Its a worthwile addition if you have a Batwing...Otherwise, use what you have...
Hope this helps...
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09-30-2009, 07:24 AM
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#12
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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I was just at a rally where someone with a new trailer had one of these "wingman" attachments. It came with the trailer. Someone noticed it up there, and asked about it. Seems that most of us (without the wingman) were only able to pick up 2 stations, but the wingman-equipped trailer was able to pull in 7. so...seems that it must actually "work".
my problem is that I don't have the required 10" of clearance between the sensar head and my center vent. frustrating thing is that if I had known several years ago, when I installed this thing, that this change was coming, I could have installed the head a few inches further forward. there's nothing in the way. I'm not cutting new holes in the roof, now.
I wonder if I could shorten the masts. If I recall, they're just a couple of hollow square tubes. It probably only needs to come forward a couple of inches.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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09-30-2009, 07:40 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1977 27' Overlander
Trotwood
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,153
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When tv went digital they moved to higher frequency's. Your old ant should do just fine,hey a coat hanger will work. But with the higher frequency's the signal becomes more line-of -sight and is subject to being shut out by building and tree's and yes even the Airstream. I am not really sure if the Power for each station have remained the same,but the distance from the station and what obstructions are in the way will change how your tv receives the signals.
I know I used to get stations 50 miles away but not anymore.
__________________
Roger & MaryLou
___________________
F350 CREWCAB SW LONG BED
7.3 liter Power Stroke Diesel
1977 27ft OVERLANDER
KA8LMQ
AIR # 22336 TAC- OH-7
May your roads be straight and smooth and may you always have a tailwind!
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09-30-2009, 07:45 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
Southwestern
, Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,671
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Digital TV frequencies
Quote:
When TV stations converted to Digital, they moved to HIGHER frequencies...(UHF) the frequencies are still receivable by most TV antennas without change...
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There seems to be universal agreement among members of the public that all digital TV broadcasts are in the UHF band, but just to set the record straight, that's not true.
The high VHF channels (7 - 13, 174 - 216 MHz)) are still in use for digital TV, and for that matter the low VHF channels (2 - 6, 54 - 88 MHz) are still assigned for television, although little if any used.
Channels 2 - 83, stretching from 54 to 890 MHz (with big gaps for other services) were originally assigned for television.
Back in the 80s the uppermost UHF channels 70 - 83 were reallocated for cellular phone use.
With the digital TV transition in 2009, UHF channels 52 - 69 were reallocated for other purposes, so TV channels now extend from 2 to 51.
Obviously your old TV antenna that covered (frequency) channels 2 - 83 still covers the current (frequency) channels 2 - 51.
(Unfortunately you know longer know what frequency "channel 7" is broadcasting on, since they kept their old channel number for brand identity reasons, even though they moved to another frequency.)
There's a Wikipedia article that explains all this in detail. North American broadcast television frequencies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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09-30-2009, 08:11 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
my problem is that I don't have the required 10" of clearance between the sensar head and my center vent. frustrating thing is that if I had known several years ago, when I installed this thing, that this change was coming, I could have installed the head a few inches further forward. there's nothing in the way. I'm not cutting new holes in the roof, now.
I wonder if I could shorten the masts. If I recall, they're just a couple of hollow square tubes. It probably only needs to come forward a couple of inches.
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The Winegard on our '83 Excella was installed in front of, and folds down over the Fantastic Fan cover. They installed a bracked for it to lay in which holds it just above the vent cover rather than laying on the roof. Such a bracket would solve your problem. In order to open the vent more than an inch or so, we must raise the antenna. Oh well, so be it. Works just fine.
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09-30-2009, 08:49 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
1968 24' Tradewind
Rural
, Delaware
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,476
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I found this in a previous thread. Apparently, a rep. from Winegard addresses the vent clearance issue in post # 12.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f450...man-48742.html
"You can remove up to the second director if you wish without losing too much signal. We do not recommend taking off the second director or you will really affect the ability of the Wingman to help direct the UHF signal.
Andy Crowner
Winegard Company"
__________________
2005 Bambi
1968 Trade Wind
2007 Ford F250 4x4 Crew
WDCU
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09-30-2009, 08:57 AM
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#17
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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yeah, I saw the same thing posted on their own website. The situation is very similar to the pics in that thread, although, I think I have even less room. don't think removing just 1 of those thingies would be enough, and even if it was, it would kind of defeat the purpose of the the whole thing, imo.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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10-06-2009, 08:03 AM
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#18
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New Member
Burlington
, Iowa
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Why? Same signal will work on new sets or with converter box on old sets. There is a part that can be added to the wing to make it a better uhf antenna, but when signals are available the old antenna works fine.
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This is correct. The digital signal can be received by the same antennas that picked up analog signal, they do not care. Many of the stations have moved to UHF (14-51), however 98% of markets have at least one major VHF channel so both are still needed.
The Winegard Wingman will help you receive those UHF channels which are just out of range or have a low signal. If you are receiving signal at 100%, obviously the Wingman won't make a difference.
Quote:
TV is more fussy about signal quality than the older analog signals. So if you get marginal analog reception, figure on getting a new antenna for digital.
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The new digital signal works similar to your cellphone signal. If you have enough bars, you can talk clearly and hear clearly. If you do not, you have nothing. The new signal is just like that, instead of fuzz, it's nothing.
Quote:
You can remove up to the second director if you wish without losing too much signal. We do not recommend taking off the second director or you will really affect the ability of the Wingman to help direct the UHF signal.
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Quote:
and even if it was, it would kind of defeat the purpose of the the whole thing, imo.
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You can remove the front tip of the Wingman without significantly lowering the performance gain on the antenna. If your purpose is to increase the performance of your antenna and receive channels you were unable to before, this is definitely not defeating the purpose.
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10-06-2009, 10:06 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock
, Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winegard
This is correct. The digital signal can be received by the same antennas that picked up analog signal, they do not care. Many of the stations have moved to UHF (14-51), however 98% of markets have at least one major VHF channel so both are still needed.
The Winegard Wingman will help you receive those UHF channels which are just out of range or have a low signal. If you are receiving signal at 100%, obviously the Wingman won't make a difference.
The new digital signal works similar to your cellphone signal. If you have enough bars, you can talk clearly and hear clearly. If you do not, you have nothing. The new signal is just like that, instead of fuzz, it's nothing.
You can remove the front tip of the Wingman without significantly lowering the performance gain on the antenna. If your purpose is to increase the performance of your antenna and receive channels you were unable to before, this is definitely not defeating the purpose.
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Thanks Andy,
It is good to hear from an authoritative source. It's hard to believe the amount of confusion the switch to HDTV has generated. Even with numerous posts from members who switched to HD some time ago stating that everything works just fine on existing antennas, confusion remains.
It is good that you are addressing the need to boost the UHF section of your products and offer advice on adapting to special circumstances.
__________________
Vaughan
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10-06-2009, 10:20 AM
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#20
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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When did Airstream start installing the newer higher gain Winegard antennas?
It is true the digital signals have to be tuned better and disappear quickly if you move too many degrees from the center. If signals are coming from different directions, it's less likely you'll get both. The trade off is clearer pictures, especially in HDTV, if you can get them.
Gene
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