Yet another Battery strategy

[Wanna EB]

After my second set of Interstates in 3 years, I have studied and studied and now have developed a lazy man's strategy. My batteries are not lasting because of over discharge. (I manage the charge carefully after cooking my first set). They are being over discharged because of long furnace runs on cold nights while boon docking. The batteries get a generator boost each morning and evening, but its not enough. And, when its cold, I am going to run the furnace and if the batteries go too low, oh well. So, here's the plan.
1) spend the 50.00 and add the temp assure sensor to boost cold weather charging
2) Buy two new group 27 interstates and install sideways (total of $178 at Costco)
3) Use camper and if the voltage goes too low, it goes too low
4) Fully expect batteries to fail within 1 year
5) Go get new ones for free each season

I will report out how it goes.

[wulfraat]

For what it is worth I live in Colorado and also camp in the cold. My solution for my previous 25' was:

~$600 on 2 group 27 lifeline AGMs installed in the outside battery box
~$150 on progressive dynamics 4655 multi-stage charger (no temp sensor)
~$175 on a victron 702 battery monitor to evaluate actual amp-hour draw, vs. just relying on voltage to determine state of charge

I would get an entire night of using the furnace set at ~67-68 degrees and would never get below 50%, even in sub-freezing temps. Solar would juice things up in the morning.

You might also consider replacing the batteries with AGM and moving the batteries inside the coach so they don't get so cold, that will help too.

[Wanna EB]

thanks for the feedback. That is the performance I am looking for.

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Wanna EB

After my second set of Interstates in 3 years, I have studied and studied and now have developed a lazy man's strategy. My batteries are not lasting because of over discharge. (I manage the charge carefully after cooking my first set). They are being over discharged because of long furnace runs on cold nights while boon docking. The batteries get a generator boost each morning and evening, but its not enough. And, when its cold, I am going to run the furnace and if the batteries go too low, oh well. So, here's the plan.
1) spend the 50.00 and add the temp assure sensor to boost cold weather charging
2) Buy two new group 27 interstates and install sideways (total of $178 at Costco)
3) Use camper and if the voltage goes too low, it goes too low
4) Fully expect batteries to fail within 1 year
5) Go get new ones for free each season

I will report out how it goes.

Another possible strategy is to buy an Olympic Wave heater and use it to heat the unit in cold weather. Free standing legs and easily left home in the summer. Although you need to ventilate and a CO2 detector is a good idea anyway, the Olympic Wave uses no electricity.

Several ways to skin the cat!

[beachbouy]

I have cooked to sets of batteries in two years because the single stage converter/inverter that Airstream continues to use and why I have no idea.
Fortunately, Interstate batteries have a two-year warranty and they have replaced them at no cost. I went from Deep Cycle to AGM Optima SRM-24s and had the same problem. I just exchanged them for Interstate Pure Matrix Power AGM batteries (3 year warranty free replacement) for an additional cost of $40.
To avoid this issue in the future I have purchased and installing a Boondocker BD 1260HW (60 Amp 4-Stage Charger/Converter to replace the single stage inverter/converter.
Advantages of the Boondocker BD 1260HW
1. 14.6 Boost Mode Output
2. 13.6 Normal Mode Output
3. 13.2 Float (trickle) Mode Output
4. Built-in desulfation cycle
5. Over-temp, Over-current Protection
6. 105-130 VAC Input Operation
7. Reversed Polarity Voltage Protection
8. >85% Efficiency
9. Safe, Cool, Quiet & Reliable Operation
10. <1% Load Regulation
11. Filtered DC Output (Works with or without a battery)Thermostatically Controlled, Variable Speed Quiet Cooling Fan
12. 3 Year Hassle Free Warranty

http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-BD-1260HW-60-Amp-4-Stage-ConverterCharger-Hard-Wire-_p_621.html"]

[pteck]

Solar goes a ways to managing the battery SOC and making sure it's charged to some degree during the day. Even a modest 200W setup will do a lot. The charge controller on them typically are quite sophisticated, negating the need for a multi-stage converter.

That said, with a single stage converter - are you checking the water levels on the batts regularly? Boiling batts isn't much of an issue with preventative maintenance. And good practice of using the use/store switch when plugged in. Switching to store, when plugged in, will have fully electrical use in trailer, but will decouple the batts when they're already topped off.

[beachbouy]

Originally Posted by pteck

Solar goes a ways to managing the battery SOC and making sure it's charged to some degree during the day. Even a modest 200W setup will do a lot. The charge controller on them typically are quite sophisticated, negating the need for a multi-stage converter.

That said, with a single stage converter - are you checking the water levels on the batts regularly? Boiling batts isn't much of an issue with preventative maintenance. And good practice of using the use/store switch when plugged in. Switching to store, when plugged in, will have fully electrical use in trailer, but will decouple the batts when they're already topped off.

With Optima's and the newer sealed batteries... you can't check the water.

[nvestysly]

Originally Posted by Wanna EB

...

4) Fully expect batteries to fail within 1 year
5) Go get new ones for free each season

I will report out how it goes.

I don't know how Costco handles their warranty claims but at some point I suspect they will not continue to give you new batteries every year. I know Costco is very consumer friendly, and they've built a reputation on that, but even they may reach a limit.

Most battery dealers will replace the battery(ies) for the original warranty period but not longer. So if the warranty is to replace the battery 3 years from date of original purchase that means after three years your warranty has expired. Doesn't matter that the most recent battery is only six months old. The original warranty has expired. Costco may handle matters differently.

[jjgoodie8]

Thank you for this post, I too am experiencing bad converters from AS. So my new 2017 International 25' has been back to the dealer 3 times. I have two dealer installed solar panels with the AGM battery upgrades. My question is; how bad is it for your batteries to be drained down to 6v four times because of my two bad converter they have now replaced because it is under factory warranty?

Originally Posted by beachbouy

I have cooked to sets of batteries in two years because the single stage converter/inverter that Airstream continues to use and why I have no idea.
Fortunately, Interstate batteries have a two-year warranty and they have replaced them at no cost. I went from Deep Cycle to AGM Optima SRM-24s and had the same problem. I just exchanged them for Interstate Pure Matrix Power AGM batteries (3 year warranty free replacement) for an additional cost of $40.
To avoid this issue in the future I have purchased and installing a Boondocker BD 1260HW (60 Amp 4-Stage Charger/Converter to replace the single stage inverter/converter.
Advantages of the Boondocker BD 1260HW
1. 14.6 Boost Mode Output
2. 13.6 Normal Mode Output
3. 13.2 Float (trickle) Mode Output
4. Built-in desulfation cycle
5. Over-temp, Over-current Protection
6. 105-130 VAC Input Operation
7. Reversed Polarity Voltage Protection
8. >85% Efficiency
9. Safe, Cool, Quiet & Reliable Operation
10. <1% Load Regulation
11. Filtered DC Output (Works with or without a battery)Thermostatically Controlled, Variable Speed Quiet Cooling Fan
12. 3 Year Hassle Free Warranty

http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-BD-1260HW-60-Amp-4-Stage-ConverterCharger-Hard-Wire-_p_621.html"]

[beachbouy]

if they drop to 6V you won't get them back to a "normal" state. That is why I went with a new inverter/converter. The store mode still has parasitic drain from the propane leak detector. You can add a battery disconnect but at my age I sometimes forget to disconnect.

[beachbouy]

If they are Interstate batteries less than 2 years old take them to an Interstate dealer and have them tested. They have to keep them for a day to give them a full charge and then test. If they fail they will give you new equal value batteries.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

First off, Airstream has not installed anything has been called a "single stage" converter (or that *is* a single stage converter) in many decades. If you believe they have, you have been drinking to much of someone's kool aid.

The super duper chargers out there, 4 stage, 6 stage, 8 stage, do this and that. They are not going to take care of folks who routinely pull more out of the batteries than they can supply. Batteries just don't like you over discharging them. When you do, they wear out quickly.

Getting a lot of battery capacity when it is cold out is tough. All batteries have less capacity when cold. Chargers that are not temperature compensated (even 8 stage ones) don't help that any.

The solution to "batteries dead in a day, need two days" is the same as it always has been. Either cut the load in half or double the number of batteries.

You can't fool Mother Nature

Bob

[beachbouy]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

First off, Airstream has not installed anything has been called a "single stage" converter (or that *is* a single stage converter) in many decades. If you believe they have, you have been drinking to much of someone's kool aid.

The super duper chargers out there, 4 stage, 6 stage, 8 stage, do this and that. They are not going to take care of folks who routinely pull more out of the batteries than they can supply. Batteries just don't like you over discharging them. When you do, they wear out quickly.

Getting a lot of battery capacity when it is cold out is tough. All batteries have less capacity when cold. Chargers that are not temperature compensated (even 8 stage ones) don't help that any.

The solution to "batteries dead in a day, need two days" is the same as it always has been. Either cut the load in half or double the number of batteries.

You can't fool Mother Nature

Bob

The Parallax 7300 which is what is my Airstream is a single stage converter, the 7300 is a two stage and the 8300 Series is a three stage. I drink Yuengling Lager.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by nvestysly

I don't know how Costco handles their warranty claims but at some point I suspect they will not continue to give you new batteries every year. I know Costco is very consumer friendly, and they've built a reputation on that, but even they may reach a limit.

Most battery dealers will replace the battery(ies) for the original warranty period but not longer. So if the warranty is to replace the battery 3 years from date of original purchase that means after three years your warranty has expired. Doesn't matter that the most recent battery is only six months old. The original warranty has expired. Costco may handle matters differently.

Costco return policy on batteries is exceptional! I just returned a battery I purchased in 2013, and I received a refund of $68.00 on battery I purchased new for $80.00. Pretty good! Didn't even have the receipt; only the Costo sticker.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by beachbouy

The Parallax 7300 which is what is my Airstream is a single stage converter, the 7300 is a two stage and the 8300 Series is a three stage. I drink Yuengling Lager.

Mine was a Parallax Single also...replaced with a Boondocker multi-stage..Converter. works well as noted from earlier threads...good investment so far. No checking out second set of batteries from Interstate...not holding charge.

[GammaDog]

Hey, Wanna EB! I like your strategy. I view batteries as a consumable resource. I would rather replace my batteries more often from hard use than to have my wife replace me for freezing her or her puggle (that's a small dog... half pug, half beagle...) to get an extra year out of the set. Batteries are way cheaper.

I added a 50 amp 12 volt quick disconnect to the outside of my battery box wired into the two Interstates. I carry a third Interstate (Group 27) in a plastic battery box. It has two quick disconnects... one for hooking it in to the trailer's bank and a second to attach the Renogy 200 watt suitcase. When we are out west in the spring or fall (like when we met you at RMNP this spring) and need all night furnace power the three batteries get us through. Our coldest night was low 20s in Bryce Canyon in 2016. We still had 12.1 v in the morning and it was 65 inside. On a good sunny day I can recharge all three with solar at that time of year, although I've got the two Honda 2000's if I need more power than the sun gives me. I don't have the expense of Li ion or the tongue the weight of 6v golf cart batteries to worry about... and I have lots of flexibility in a plug and play package.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by beachbouy

With Optima's and the newer sealed batteries... you can't check the water.

That's great and all for those that have AGM's. It's not a newer thing, but a battery type. The OP didn't state, but I suspect he has traditional flooded batts.

Many of us choose not to do AGM's, either for cost or whatever other reason. I personally find traditional flooded batts cheaper and easier to source. And Costco replaces them without a flinch if I were to be neglectful (which I try not to be).

[quietguy]

Originally Posted by beachbouy

The Parallax 7300 which is what is my Airstream is a single stage converter, the 7300 is a two stage and the 8300 Series is a three stage. I drink Yuengling Lager.

My early 2017 has a 8300 series. Clearly states in the owners manual it's multi stage. Only improvement it to buy the temp probe.

[Wanna EB]

Originally Posted by GammaDog

Hey, Wanna EB! I like your strategy. I view batteries as a consumable resource. I would rather replace my batteries more often from hard use than to have my wife replace me for freezing her or her puggle (that's a small dog... half pug, half beagle...) to get an extra year out of the set. Batteries are way cheaper.

I added a 50 amp 12 volt quick disconnect to the outside of my battery box wired into the two Interstates. I carry a third Interstate (Group 27) in a plastic battery box. It has two quick disconnects... one for hooking it in to the trailer's bank and a second to attach the Renogy 200 watt suitcase. When we are out west in the spring or fall (like when we met you at RMNP this spring) and need all night furnace power the three batteries get us through. Our coldest night was low 20s in Bryce Canyon in 2016. We still had 12.1 v in the morning and it was 65 inside. On a good sunny day I can recharge all three with solar at that time of year, although I've got the two Honda 2000's if I need more power than the sun gives me. I don't have the expense of Li ion or the tongue the weight of 6v golf cart batteries to worry about... and I have lots of flexibility in a plug and play package.

Nice to hear from you. Funny that you mention the wife and dog...those are my motives as well. My 9 pound dog (Havanese) doesn't have much of a coat on her. And she's old.

Good ideas with the extra battery

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by beachbouy

The Parallax 7300 which is what is my Airstream is a single stage converter, the 7300 is a two stage and the 8300 Series is a three stage. I drink Yuengling Lager.

Bob

A single stage converter either is constant current or constant voltage. That simply is not the way *any* Airstream converter works.

Bob