Wiring Lifepo4 batteries into the battery box on the tongue

[TravelTommy]

Hi All,

I have a couple questions...

I found a sale and bought two 100AH group24 lifepo4 batteries from Litime that have bluetooth.

1) Can put the batteries into my battery box with the stock wiring in my 2021 Flying Cloud 30FB? Are the wire gauge and fusing of the stock setup sufficient?

2) Does anyone have a Lifepo4 compatable converter that they can recommend? I currently have a 55amp Wfco-9855 that isn't compatible.

[waninae39]

best to move them inside
this will also reduce tongue weight

[TravelTommy]

I wish that I was more knowledgeable about electricity, but I am an absolute novice. Moving the batteries inside is way above my skill level.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

They will work fine in the box on the tongue. Since they weigh less than the lead acid's your tongue weight will go down a bit. This *assumes* that the batteries you bought are waterproof. If they aren't then some sort of covering for them would be needed.

Another minor point: The batteries may (but probably don't) have the same connection posts on them as the existing batteries. If they have bolts instead, the cables will need to be modified. A hydraulic swage tool is the right way to do this.

There are a lot of converters out there. It's a "you get what you pay for" sort of market. More than the make or model, I'd suggest buying from somebody you can talk to on the phone. Random sellers on Amazon are not the most helpful sources of info when you have a question about something ....

Bob

[field & stream]

While I have come to understand lithium battery conversions, I am also a novice about the how and why of electricity! I get that you wish this was really simple, but it just isn’t.

I recommend you get a pro to do this for you. While they are in there, you should also have them install a shunt based battery monitor (like a Victron 712) so you know what is going on, a real battery disconnect switch, and consider a dc/dc converter.

[VTSmitty]

We also did the LiTime w/bluetooth conversion. The easiest way to do this without changing things much is:

1. Put terminal post converters on the batteries, this will allow you to use the existing auto-style connections: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TFVMJMV

2. Use a bus bar to clean up the various positive-terminal connections: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6K78QT2

3. Use heavier connectors than stock when setting the batteries in parallel: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779PB3XB You should get two sets, as you need one extra wire for the bus bar connection.

4. Get a good charger for keeping the batteries at the right charge level when in storage (recommended that you don't keep them in the trailer over the winter): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09CGYLD8Z

Per other threads, pay attention to how you wire the batteries. Although I don't have it exactly like this, the recommendation is that all the positive load should come off of one battery (this is where the bus bar comes in), and all the negatives connect to the other battery.

Oh, and for the converter you can't go wrong with Progressive Dynamics. If you're using stock tow vehicle 7-pin wiring you don't need to worry about DC-DC chargers, and since you can monitor (and shut off) the LiTimes via your phone you don't need shunts and battery disconnects.

[Runamuk13]

TravelTommy:

I'm also looking at the Litime Lithium batteries, mounting on the tongue and upgrading my converter.

I'm looking at their 230ah battery to replace two Group 24 lead/acid's.

Then upgrading my WFCO 8955 PEC converter to a Lithium Compatible converter

See this

YouTube video on installing the upgraded converter

My question for everyone is if I should buy a heated lithium battery?

I live in the upper left corner of America. I've heard that Lithium batteries don't do well in the cold. Often it will get below 40 degrees during the colder months. We'll go camping the cold and there isn't room in my little Airstream 16RB to move the batteries inside.

What do you'all suggest?

Thanks

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Runamuk13

~~
My question for everyone is if I should buy a heated lithium battery?

I live in the upper left corner of America. I've heard that Lithium batteries don't do well in the cold. Often it will get below 40 degrees during the colder months. We'll go camping the cold and there isn't room in my little Airstream 16RB to move the batteries inside.

What do you'all suggest?

Thanks

All other things being equal, I'd buy heated batteries because getting caught in that "too cold to charge" situation is when you really, really want to be able to keep the furnace running!

If the options don't line up (i.e. if the size and form-factor of battery you need isn't available in a heated version) there are pads and wraps with 12v heating elements in them and you can make your own battery warmers.

[kb0zke]

How you use your trailer's batteries will have more of an effect on their life than anything else. If your plan is to take your trailer to the top of a ski resort and boondock there for the week between Christmas and New Year's, then yes, you will need to move the batteries inside. If you plan to go to the same place in July, then no.


We're full-timers, so we're rarely in really cold conditions, and never (so far) without shore power. I put our batteries in a pass-through compartment that has a bit of heat near the water valves. That has kept everything warm enough for our unheated batteries. As was mentioned above, putting 12VDC heating pads under the batteries is also a good work-around.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by Runamuk13

TravelTommy:

I'm also looking at the Litime Lithium batteries, mounting on the tongue and upgrading my converter.

I'm looking at their 230ah battery to replace two Group 24 lead/acid's.

Then upgrading my WFCO 8955 PEC converter to a Lithium Compatible converter

See this

My question for everyone is if I should buy a heated lithium battery?

I live in the upper left corner of America. I've heard that Lithium batteries don't do well in the cold. Often it will get below 40 degrees during the colder months. We'll go camping the cold and there isn't room in my little Airstream 16RB to move the batteries inside.

What do you'all suggest?

Thanks

My advice is look for a different converter. Many posts from people complaining about problems with the WFCO AD not recognizing lithium batteries and not charging anywhere close to rated output even when it does recognize lithium.

[waninae39]

go with the victron products

most people end up with their victron MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V or the mutiplus II

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, heated batteries .....

The only time this would matter is when the batteries are < 32F *and* you want to charge them. All (decent) modern batteries will self protect. If you try to charge and shouldn't. Heating is simply a connivence thing.

For most of us, charging is a "do it when the sun is up" sort of thing. It might be solar charging. It could be charging in motion. It might be charging while you are on shore power (though that could happen at night. Most folks run their generators when it's light out....

If it's below freezing 24 hours a day, that's not when we're out camping. You get into a whole range of issues. Humidity inside the vehicle is going to be a bit much. Heat is going to use a lot of energy from somewhere. You will worry about the pipes freezing.

If it simply dodges down into the mid 20's at 4AM and is above 32 once the sun has been up for a bit, that's pretty normal for "cold weather" camping for us. No need for heat in that situation.

We *have* heated batteries in the van. We've never turned those heaters on. We also have heaters on the trailer tanks, never turned them on either. That's not because we don't camp when it may well be snowing (at least a little bit).

Fun !!!

Bob

[JeffKim]

Re: Heated Batteries. We live in Minnesota and although our batteries are relocated inside the camper, I never really considered heated batteries. We don't camp that much when it gets below freezing and it takes quite a while for the batteries to get below the minimum charging temperature (32F), especially if they are in use (like powering the heater fan), they will also generate some heat. But you should make sure that the batteries have low temperature charging protection, just in case. Lithium batteries will discharge down to 4F or so, so it's not a matter of being without power if it gets cold.

As an aside, for all the Victron fans, we have all Victron chargers (two solar, one AC powered, DC-DC), I added a temperature sensor to the shunt and set the controllers to shut down below 32F. It was pretty inexpensive to do and a backup to the BMS in our bargain basement offshore batteries.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by VTSmitty

Per other threads, pay attention to how you wire the batteries. Although I don't have it exactly like this, the recommendation is that all the positive load should come off of one battery (this is where the bus bar comes in), and all the negatives connect to the other battery.

I also have two LiTime Group 24's in the battery box. Initially I wired them as the lead acids were wired. Positive connections on one battery and negatives on the other. What I discovered was that with this configuration, when one battery shuts down due to being completely discharged, the entire system shuts down. The other battery still had a good bit of charge and so this was disappointing. I asked customer service whether bus bars would avoid this problem and they confirmed they would. So I now use bus bars but haven't run one battery down completely in this configuration.

[Saullman]

They should just drop in the battery box and weigh 30% less or more than the previous FLA batteries. The wiring should be the the same for 100ah lifepo4's. Easy peasy.!!!

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by VTSmitty

We also did the LiTime w/Bluetooth conversion.
4. Get a good charger for keeping the batteries at the right charge level when in storage (recommended that you don't keep them in the trailer over the winter): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09CGYLD8Z

I think your post is spot-on and with the Li-Time this looks like the way to go for the OP.

I will add that many people add a battery cutoff switch. Winterizing they will hold their charge for months and I disagree that they need to be removed or charged. Here in Minnesota, I just turn the switch to disconnect the batteries in the fall and in spring they are still almost fully charged when I reconnect them.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The *big deal* when swapping any batteries is to make very sure the connections (or connectors) on the ends of the cables are done properly. That may mean correct swage gear or it may be a bit more involved. The resistance delta in some of these wiring setups is near zero. The contact resistance of a poorly done connection can be *much* higher than those cables.

Bob

[VTSmitty]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

I will add that many people add a battery cutoff switch. Winterizing they will hold their charge for months and I disagree that they need to be removed or charged. Here in Minnesota, I just turn the switch to disconnect the batteries in the fall and in spring they are still almost fully charged when I reconnect them.

You're probably right that they would be fine in the battery box over the winter. I did this for years with my AGM's (with a disconnect switch) and they always kept their charge. But the LiTime's are so light that I'd just as soon pop them out and take them home so I can keep an eye on them. And one of the things that I love about the Bluetooth feature is that you can turn the batteries off whenever you want via your phone; you don't need a battery cutoff, and it made installing them a piece of cake since you never have to worry about a hot battery while you're connecting wires.

[pboomerx]

Originally Posted by TravelTommy

Hi All,

I have a couple questions...

I found a sale and bought two 100AH group24 lifepo4 batteries from Litime that have bluetooth.

1) Can put the batteries into my battery box with the stock wiring in my 2021 Flying Cloud 30FB? Are the wire gauge and fusing of the stock setup sufficient?

2) Does anyone have a Lifepo4 compatable converter that they can recommend? I currently have a 55amp Wfco-9855 that isn't compatible.

They will fit. You can get adapters on Amazon to give you battery posts, which you need for the inverter connections.

Be mindful of any temperature limitations. You bought these on sale but hopefully the bms will shut off charge at low temps

I got the wfco automatic converter/charger. But a better solution is a wfco hard configured for lithium. I mention wfco because the converter is a kinda tight fit and vastly prefer a new one with the same footprint

Good luck

[R ROGERS]

I did just what you are attempting. Remove the old lead acid batteries and replace with lithium. 2x group 24 Litime non heated.

Original setup:


Lithium setup with buss bars, shunt, terminal fuse block and 150A circuit breaker disconnect:

I sourced cables from Battery Cables USA, I had to make one of the cables from the disconnect breaker to the negative battery terminal. I used the Victron Smart Shunt for monitoring state of charge. I had upgraded my converter last year to a Boondocker 1260 HWL when the original failed. I switched the Boondocker over to fixed 14.4v charging for the lithiums. There are other converters out there. I satisfied with the Boondocker it'll put out up to 60 amps charge current into the lithiums. Buss bars and disconnect are held on with magnets.