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09-25-2024, 01:55 PM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
2024 16' Caravel
Rochester
, Minnesota
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 13
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Winter Storage for Lithium Batteries
Hello All,
Prepping for the first winter with our 2024 Caravel with the Lithium option. We live in MN, where temperatures can get very cold ... negative teens are not uncommon, and it's also normal to dip well below that at least once during the winter.
Question 1 ... do we need to pull the batteries? We always did with our old Popup ... but it wasn't Lithium ...
Question 2 ... will it require a trickle charge throughout the winter?
Ellen in MN
2024 16' Caravel
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09-25-2024, 02:02 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2022 25' Flying Cloud
NCR
, Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,394
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we leave them in our trailer all winter ( it goes down to -30C here)
i place a small plant heater atop them
even in the coldest day, they seem to be fine
i have done this for the last 5 years with no problems
__________________
2023 25' FB FC, hatch, Queen,30A,1AC,Awning pkg, Convection uwave.Multiplus 12/3000-50,700A Lion,MPPT 100/30,Orion-TR 30,Cerbo GX,GX touch 50,Lynx distributor,dual BMV-712, smart shunt 500A&1000A, RUUVI temp/humidity sensors,2 Mopeka LP sensors
NCR,Ontario,VE3HIU since 1978
WBCCI# 21212
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09-25-2024, 02:13 PM
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#3
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1 Rivet Member
2024 16' Caravel
Rochester
, Minnesota
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 13
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hmmm ... so we store indoors, but we do not have access to electricity, i don't think we would have the option of running a heater.
Ellen in MN
2024 16' Caravel
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09-25-2024, 02:16 PM
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#4
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3 Rivet Member
2023 23' Flying Cloud
Carroll
, Iowa
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 118
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Following... I'm in the same situation in Iowa (also plenty cold!) and this will be my first winter with our AS so interested in hearing what is considered best practices with lithiums in winter. As far as I'm aware they should to just fine "as-is" through the winter, but I could also remove them and keep them at home through winter with a little effort.
__________________
2023 Flying Cloud 23FBT ~ 2024 Ford F150 XLT PowerBoost 7.2 kw ~ 2010 Border Terrier
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09-25-2024, 02:36 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2023 25' Globetrotter
2021 16' Bambi
Forest Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,609
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Fellow Minnesotan here, with our lithiums I disconnect them and leave them in the trailer or the winter. I have a full disconnect switch, I'm not sure if you do or not, but there are still parasitic loads that will draw down batteries even if you use the disconnect button. So worst case, disconnect the terminals.
Lithium batteries will discharge very slowly on their own and with ours even after 4-5 months in storage they are still around 80%. So, no need for a charger, just leave them and switch them back on and plug in to charge them off the trailer charger.
However, the way things are going this fall, we might not have a winter.
__________________
2023 Globetrotter 25FBT "Curly"
2017 Audi Q7 3.0T
WBCCI 6343
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09-25-2024, 08:24 PM
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#6
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2 Rivet Member
2023 23' Flying Cloud
Fargo/Bozeman
, ND/MT
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Last winter we stored our Flying Cloud 23 FBT with lithium in Bozeman & I took the batteries out and stored them in our house. This winter we are storing in Fargo where it is colder, but our storage unit has power so I can leave it plugged in all winter if I want to. Which is safer, removing and storing inside or leaving in the camper and plugging in all winter. Our lithiums also have heaters.
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09-25-2024, 10:26 PM
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#7
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 6,175
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Here in Wisconsin where our temps are similar, I pull the lithium batteries in the winter.
They do not require a trickle charge of any type if you fully charge them before removal - mine have gone 6 months with virtually no drop in voltage.
If you don't pull them, it is unsafe to put a trickle charger on them as they should not be charged with below a certain temperature.
It takes me about 30 minutes to pull both batteries. To me it's time well spent since it allows me to watch the winter weather roll in without having a single worry about the batteries. The lithium batteries are not that heavy and are relatively easy to move.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 'Gertie' Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8 'Bert'
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser 'The Bus' (Sold)
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09-26-2024, 12:56 AM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
2017 27' International
Fall City
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 405
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Read the manufacturer storage guidelines. They may be different from one manufacturer to another.
My LifePo manual says to discharge to 50% and store with the disconnect. Later, charge to full before a trip.
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2017 27FB International
2013 Ram 2500 Laramie Crew Cab CTD 4x4
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09-26-2024, 09:58 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
2013 23' FB Flying Cloud
Jericho
, Vermont
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 128
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Whether I really need to or not, I'm going to pull my Lithiums and keep them at home this winter. They are so light and easy to disconnect that it isn't a problem, and especially for the first year I'd like to be able to check them periodically and see how they fare. We have LiTimes with bluetooth, so that's simple enough. Future years I may leave them in the trailer like I did my AGMs, who knows.
__________________
Dan and Chris (and Lindy and Milo)
2013 Flying Cloud 23FB
2014 Tundra DC 5.7L / ProPride / Tekonsha P3
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09-26-2024, 10:16 AM
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#10
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3 Rivet Member
2023 23' Flying Cloud
Carroll
, Iowa
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Me
Read the manufacturer storage guidelines. They may be different from one manufacturer to another.
My LifePo manual says to discharge to 50% and store with the disconnect. Later, charge to full before a trip.
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Not sure why I didn't think of this. FWIW Battle Born says to fully charge and then fully disconnect the batteries for winter, and bring them indoors if temps below -10° are possible:
https://battlebornbatteries.com/faq-...our-batteries/
Here is the text from the above site:
Properly Winterizing Battle Born Batteries
- Bring the batteries to a full charge using shore power, generator, or lithium charger.
- Disconnect Solar PV inputs from controllers.
- Disconnect from shore power, generator, or lithium charger.
- Disconnect the batteries from the system using your disconnect switch or removing the positive main battery cable.
- Ensure that all system loads, including Smoke and CO detectors, must also be powered down.
- Turn off or disconnect the heat-enable wire from the positive main terminal for heated Battle Born Batteries.
- If temperatures are expected to drop below -10 ° F where the batteries are being stored, remove them and store them in a warmer location.
If you are storing your entire system, we recommend using a battery guardian to help protect your batteries by disconnecting them from parasitic loads once they reach a voltage of 11.5V. We recommend removing the primary battery connections if a disconnect switch is not incorporated into your system since our batteries do not require a trickle charge. When you return to your rig in the warmer months, they should have plenty of power and are ready to go!
__________________
2023 Flying Cloud 23FBT ~ 2024 Ford F150 XLT PowerBoost 7.2 kw ~ 2010 Border Terrier
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09-26-2024, 10:24 AM
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#11
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 16,513
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Hi
Trickle charge: Nope (as mentioned above). That's true indoors or out in the wild.
Pull them? The same batteries go into stuff like EV's. They sit out in parking lots in Alaska in the winter. Indeed the manufacturers have test sites up there to be sure that works. Sitting out parked, there's no heater going on those batteries.
If you chat with the manufacturers, the low temp rating on them is simply the limit of the test gear used. There are a number of papers out there that dig into the grubby details. The claim is made in them that you are ok to at least -45 (C or F ...).
Bob
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09-26-2024, 11:00 AM
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#12
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 6,175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
Trickle charge: Nope (as mentioned above). That's true indoors or out in the wild.
Pull them? The same batteries go into stuff like EV's. They sit out in parking lots in Alaska in the winter. Indeed the manufacturers have test sites up there to be sure that works. Sitting out parked, there's no heater going on those batteries.
If you chat with the manufacturers, the low temp rating on them is simply the limit of the test gear used. There are a number of papers out there that dig into the grubby details. The claim is made in them that you are ok to at least -45 (C or F ...).
Bob
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Sorry, but this doesn't jive with what the tech at Battleborn told me. According to what I was told, below a certain temperature there is a risk of the plastic case cracking. Why risk leaving such an expensive battery sitting outside in -30F temps when it takes so little effort to bring it in.
The batteries in our RVs are not exactly the same as those in EVs, and they certainly don't have all the safety systems in place with regard to cold weather charging.
My batteries have a heater, and if it's enabled it is possible to charge in very cold weather. But when my trailer is stored for the winter there is no sense in keeping the heaters activated just to charge batteries which are not going to be used for months.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 'Gertie' Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8 'Bert'
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser 'The Bus' (Sold)
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09-27-2024, 08:09 AM
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#13
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 16,513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard5933
Sorry, but this doesn't jive with what the tech at Battleborn told me. According to what I was told, below a certain temperature there is a risk of the plastic case cracking. Why risk leaving such an expensive battery sitting outside in -30F temps when it takes so little effort to bring it in.
The batteries in our RVs are not exactly the same as those in EVs, and they certainly don't have all the safety systems in place with regard to cold weather charging.
My batteries have a heater, and if it's enabled it is possible to charge in very cold weather. But when my trailer is stored for the winter there is no sense in keeping the heaters activated just to charge batteries which are not going to be used for months.
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Hi
This may be a "combo effect". Get the case cold and go out driving around. It also would certainly apply to any case that had water in it and went below freezing ....
Bob
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09-27-2024, 08:43 AM
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#14
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 6,175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
This may be a "combo effect". Get the case cold and go out driving around. It also would certainly apply to any case that had water in it and went below freezing ....
Bob
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Everyone can choose to store their batteries as they see fit and take whatever risks they're comfortable with. But I just found this on the Battleborn FAQs under the question of winter care for the batteries:
Quote:
Storing batteries in subzero weather (-15°F or more) has the potential to crack the ABS plastic and more importantly could cause a faster loss of capacity, in some cases drastically more than the typical 2 – 4% per month loss.
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Doesn't seem too complicated for me. All physical materials react to temperature differently, and it sounds to me like the ABS used in Battleborn battery cases is susceptible to cracking at temps below -15F.
This doesn't surprise me - after a few of my first winters in Wisconsin I started to learn that not everything can be safely left outdoors over the winter if you didn't want it in pieces come spring. Things that would survive for years down south crumble in the extreme cold.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 'Gertie' Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8 'Bert'
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser 'The Bus' (Sold)
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09-27-2024, 09:14 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2007 16' International CCD
Vintage Kin Owner
Somewhere
, Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,700
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Thanks to all for this discussion. I live in Colorado where we experience minus-teens every year and sometimes colder. I have brought my lithium battery into the garage some years and left it out others. I have seen no difference or problems.
But now, I’m bringing it in!
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10-02-2024, 10:56 AM
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#16
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1 Rivet Member
2019 Interstate Lounge Ext
Town & Country
, Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 10
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Winter Storage for Lithium Batteries
I learned the hard way last year. Inside storage, heated, and electric. I turned off the heat, did not keep RV on shoreline plug. Batteries discharged and I am the proud owner of new, expensive lithium batteries! This year I will definitely keep the heat at 45 and RV plugged in.
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10-02-2024, 11:17 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Sequim
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 542
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Interesting discussion! I am fortunate to live in Sequim WA where winter temperatures rarely are below the 30’s for more than a day or two. For the past 4 years since installation by AM Solar I have left our Battleborn Li batteries fully connected all year. They are charged by solar panels which do not get snow cover more than a day or two each winter. I check the system every week or two and use small amounts of power (primarily lights and radio). We live in major earthquake country and think of our Airstream as our backup home if needed. It’s about 1 mile away from our house. I like having full propane tanks and batteries fully charged. Of course it is winterized, but I can easily de-winterize it if necessary though potable water probably would be a problem,. We keep a two week supply of potable water (with freeze dried food and a toilet system) at the house just in case.
We use our Airstream about 60 days a year, but almost never between December - March.
__________________
D2
"Having differences makes a difference"
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10-03-2024, 07:14 AM
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#18
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1 Rivet Member
2024 16' Caravel
Rochester
, Minnesota
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 13
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Lots of good responses! But I think we will go with removing them and storing with no trickle charge… next up is the removal process, we unhooked them once and we had big sparks while removing the leads… is that normal?
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10-03-2024, 08:06 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2007 16' International CCD
Vintage Kin Owner
Somewhere
, Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LNinMN
Lots of good responses! But I think we will go with removing them and storing with no trickle charge… next up is the removal process, we unhooked them once and we had big sparks while removing the leads… is that normal?
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I think removing them and letting them sit is the way to go. I like to check the voltage periodically, at least for my peace of mind.
Sparks while removing them is probably not uncommon, but definitely not good. I suggest you remove the negative (ground) first, being very careful not to let it touch anything, and wrap it with some insulation before releasing it. Then do the same with the positive. For reinstalling do the reverse.
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10-03-2024, 08:20 AM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
2023 33' Classic
Chandler
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 101
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LifePo4 batteries can go for many months without needing any charge at all as long as there is no loads on the batteries. Going 4-5 months is no problem at all. You definitely DO NOT want to try to charge them in 32 degree weather. Wait for the temps to warm up above 32 degrees to charge them.
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