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Old 01-25-2024, 11:23 AM   #1
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Which Victron Charger to replace WFCO converter?

I have a WFCO Model: WF-9855-AD and I'm considering replacing it with a Victron Charger because the WFCO auto-detect still hasn't recognized my lithium batteries. Looking at Victron because I already have their other products and I'd like to have the visibility to the charger in the Victron App.

I saw a post where someone used the "Victron Energy PSC125051095 Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 12/50(1+1) for 120-240 Volt input"

I see Victron also has the "Victron Energy PSC123051095 Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 12/30(1+1) for 120-240 Volt input"

I'm wondering which Victron is best for replacing the WFCO? I have 200AH of Battle Born lithium batteries.

Also, I usually have my rig plugged into a 15A service at home, will I stlll be able to support these Victron chargers with 15A service?

Thanks all
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Old 01-25-2024, 11:33 AM   #2
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I had the same issue with the AD model and switched to the Progressive Dynamics PD9100L.

The Victron model I looked at was the 50A version but it was nearly 2x the cost of the PD.
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Old 01-25-2024, 04:23 PM   #3
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My original WFCO converter became intermittently failed, and I replaced it with a PD9160AL. I believe my WFCO had some cold solder joints that caused it to stop working. Airstream did reimburse me for the cost.

I also have 200Ah of BB lithium, and the PD9160 worked fine. Bestconverter.com was where I bought it.

I am upgrading to 400Ah now, and went with a Multiplus. Unless you are doing same, just get the PD unit. It is easy to replace.
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Old 01-25-2024, 06:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmccarty View Post
I have a WFCO Model: WF-9855-AD and I'm considering replacing it with a Victron Charger because the WFCO auto-detect still hasn't recognized my lithium batteries. Looking at Victron because I already have their other products and I'd like to have the visibility to the charger in the Victron App.

I saw a post where someone used the "Victron Energy PSC125051095 Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 12/50(1+1) for 120-240 Volt input"

I see Victron also has the "Victron Energy PSC123051095 Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 12/30(1+1) for 120-240 Volt input"

I'm wondering which Victron is best for replacing the WFCO? I have 200AH of Battle Born lithium batteries.

Also, I usually have my rig plugged into a 15A service at home, will I stlll be able to support these Victron chargers with 15A service?

Thanks all
I just added the Victron Energy PSC125051095 Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 12/50(1+1) for 120-240 Volt input to my 2021 Intl 25FBQ. Credit @jeffkim was my instigator. I did a lithium 2x 100Ah Battleborn and Dc to Dc charger upgrade at same time. The WFCO I pulled was lithium capable but just single stage charge profile capable. BB manual was clear about 2 charge levels. The Victron Phoenix is rated to 50amp @ 12v (say 14.5 nominal for LI) output so thatís 725watts, the WFCO OE converter data-plate output rated at 14.6V at 50A so 730 watts so similar output performance. The 15amp AC circuit input rating to the converter at 110 vac is 1650 watts max input so the input can handle demand. Several reasons I went with Victron, 1 integrates well with all my other Victron units eg: solar mppt charger, DC to DC charger, shunt, Victron smart network info sharing among all units, 2 BB was clear about 2 charge levels, absorption and float, the WFCO charge was only single stage, 3 the Victron App that lets me know what all the units are doing on my phone.
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Old 01-26-2024, 07:54 AM   #5
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https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ...6280763&sr=8-4

Will work fine, for a pair or 3 batteries.
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Old 01-26-2024, 12:36 PM   #6
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Here's a link to my experience installing the mighty Victron Phoenix IP43. (@SVTRIDE, thanks for the shout out.) The thread also has a lot about the despised WFCO-AD and the PD9160AL replacement.

I'd agree that the PD is likely the best economical choice and has a great reputation. But as @SVTRIDE explains, if you have a lot of Victron equipment with the VE.Smart Networking it all plays together, and it's Bluetooth so you can monitor everything on their app. With VE.SN for example, on our GT there is about 8ft of wire to the positive bus bar and a resistive voltage drop. The charger working with the shunt will output a higher voltage (~17V) to get the correct charging voltage at the battery (~14.5V). It's also 50A and the despised WFCO was only putting out about 18A, with the Victron it's about 45A or so when bulk charging.

Yes, 15A is plenty for the charger. It consumes around 600W @50A DC which by my arithmetic translates to about 5A AC current. (I think I have this right).

I don't know much about the much cheaper 30A charger @vanderwielen suggests. I have four 100Ah batteries, so maybe too much for it. However it looks like it will fit the WFCO space, so less hassle. It doesn't have the VE.SN and I'm not too sure it's meant for this sort of application, but as I said I don't know much.
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Old 01-26-2024, 01:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTRIDE View Post
I just added the Victron Energy PSC125051095 Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 12/50(1+1) for 120-240 Volt input to my 2021 Intl 25FBQ. Credit @jeffkim was my instigator. I did a lithium 2x 100Ah Battleborn and Dc to Dc charger upgrade at same time. The WFCO I pulled was lithium capable but just single stage charge profile capable. BB manual was clear about 2 charge levels. The Victron Phoenix is rated to 50amp @ 12v (say 14.5 nominal for LI) output so thatís 725watts, the WFCO OE converter data-plate output rated at 14.6V at 50A so 730 watts so similar output performance. The 15amp AC circuit input rating to the converter at 110 vac is 1650 watts max input so the input can handle demand. Several reasons I went with Victron, 1 integrates well with all my other Victron units eg: solar mppt charger, DC to DC charger, shunt, Victron smart network info sharing among all units, 2 BB was clear about 2 charge levels, absorption and float, the WFCO charge was only single stage, 3 the Victron App that lets me know what all the units are doing on my phone.
Thanks for the detailed answer, you answered all my questions. I too am interested in the Victron inter-device visibility on the apps and will probably be willing to pay more to get that.

Which DC to DC charger did you go with? (I'm also considering a Victron for that when I get there for the same reasons)

Brad
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Old 01-26-2024, 01:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKim View Post
Here's a link to my experience installing the mighty Victron Phoenix IP43. (@SVTRIDE, thanks for the shout out.) The thread also has a lot about the despised WFCO-AD and the PD9160AL replacement.

I'd agree that the PD is likely the best economical choice and has a great reputation. But as @SVTRIDE explains, if you have a lot of Victron equipment with the VE.Smart Networking it all plays together, and it's Bluetooth so you can monitor everything on their app. With VE.SN for example, on our GT there is about 8ft of wire to the positive bus bar and a resistive voltage drop. The charger working with the shunt will output a higher voltage (~17V) to get the correct charging voltage at the battery (~14.5V). It's also 50A and the despised WFCO was only putting out about 18A, with the Victron it's about 45A or so when bulk charging.

Yes, 15A is plenty for the charger. It consumes around 600W @50A DC which by my arithmetic translates to about 5A AC current. (I think I have this right).

I don't know much about the much cheaper 30A charger @vanderwielen suggests. I have four 100Ah batteries, so maybe too much for it. However it looks like it will fit the WFCO space, so less hassle. It doesn't have the VE.SN and I'm not too sure it's meant for this sort of application, but as I said I don't know much.
Thanks for the very helpful information!
Brad
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Old 01-26-2024, 02:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmccarty View Post
Which DC to DC charger did you go with? (I'm also considering a Victron for that when I get there for the same reasons)

Brad
30 amp Victron
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Old 01-26-2024, 05:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKim View Post
Here's a link to my experience installing the mighty Victron Phoenix IP43. (@SVTRIDE, thanks for the shout out.) The thread also has a lot about the despised WFCO-AD and the PD9160AL replacement.

I'd agree that the PD is likely the best economical choice and has a great reputation. But as @SVTRIDE explains, if you have a lot of Victron equipment with the VE.Smart Networking it all plays together, and it's Bluetooth so you can monitor everything on their app. With VE.SN for example, on our GT there is about 8ft of wire to the positive bus bar and a resistive voltage drop. The charger working with the shunt will output a higher voltage (~17V) to get the correct charging voltage at the battery (~14.5V). It's also 50A and the despised WFCO was only putting out about 18A, with the Victron it's about 45A or so when bulk charging.

Yes, 15A is plenty for the charger. It consumes around 600W @50A DC which by my arithmetic translates to about 5A AC current. (I think I have this right).

I don't know much about the much cheaper 30A charger @vanderwielen suggests. I have four 100Ah batteries, so maybe too much for it. However it looks like it will fit the WFCO space, so less hassle. It doesn't have the VE.SN and I'm not too sure it's meant for this sort of application, but as I said I don't know much.
Your math is a little off, 50 amps at 14.5 volts is just over 6 amps at 120 volts at 100% efficiency, with real world efficiency and the overhead for controls and fans it's probably 7-8 amps, still no problem for a 15 amp outlet. Although there have been a few issues reported with a converter on a GFCI outlet, I don't believe I heard of any with Victron though.
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Old 01-31-2024, 11:13 AM   #11
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Thank you for the question. I am facing the same issue/concern.
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Old 01-31-2024, 12:13 PM   #12
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Thank you for the question. I am facing the same issue/concern.
It's never too late to join the party. Is it an autodetect issue?
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Old 02-07-2024, 05:05 PM   #13
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In the AS battery box, so theoretically, maybe, at least once (2023 25 FBQ)

1- main cables fused 100a run to panel (1000W inverter)
2- unfused wires running to Solar controller under bed / from charger
3- Zamp fused input for ground panels
4- fused tongue jack

Does that sound correct or is my logic flawed getting ready to play green light blue light
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Old 02-08-2024, 07:11 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by G8trwood View Post
In the AS battery box, so theoretically, maybe, at least once (2023 25 FBQ)

1- main cables fused 100a run to panel (1000W inverter)
2- unfused wires running to Solar controller under bed / from charger
3- Zamp fused input for ground panels
4- fused tongue jack

Does that sound correct or is my logic flawed getting ready to play green light blue light
2021 25 FBQ. I donít understand your item 2 above..I didnít have unfused wires from solar controller to battery box. The solar controller output terminated via a 50amp re-setting breaker feeding buss bar inside 12vdc box. Input to the solar controller is fused up at the individual panels on roof.
Your other 3 line items are same as mine.
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Old 03-11-2024, 06:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by SVTRIDE View Post
2021 25 FBQ. I donít understand your item 2 above..I didnít have unfused wires from solar controller to battery box. The solar controller output terminated via a 50amp re-setting breaker feeding buss bar inside 12vdc box. Input to the solar controller is fused up at the individual panels on roof.
Your other 3 line items are same as mine.

Sorry for confusion. Typical Two supply lines. The line running to the inverter was fused at the battery. The zamp ground solar and the line supplying the power to DC junction box both had thermal breakers inside the junction box. My rooftop solar just goes to a 35a add a fuse to the DC buss, although I added a disconnect in line.

Of note, the #6 from battery box to the juncture box was also a foot short, so AS used an inline spliceÖ.


Do any of the folks running the Victron IP43 12-50 charger have any problems with heat. Man this thing gets hot.

Thanks
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Old 03-11-2024, 01:46 PM   #16
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Do any of the folks running the Victron IP43 12-50 charger have any problems with heat. Man this thing gets hot.
Yes, they get warm whilst flowing significant current which does not happen often for me. …I was concerned about potential heat build up in the confined area under the bed where I packaged the charger. So to mitigate the heat, I added a computer fan under the heat sink. The fan is controlled by a 100 degree F thermo switch that I screwed to the side of one of the charger's heat sink veins. I cut an air inlet hole from the Converter compartment upstream of fan and cut a second hole the warm area to be pushed out into the bedroom area of the camper. The fan will cycle on and off on its own as needed. As I have plenty of solar and a DC to DC charger also, I find my charger not needing to push a lot of amps mostly. I put the fan in preemptively, hope to not to need it much.
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Old 03-11-2024, 07:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SVTRIDE View Post
Yes, they get warm whilst flowing significant current which does not happen often for me. ÖI was concerned about potential heat build up in the confined area under the bed where I packaged the charger. So to mitigate the heat, I added a computer fan under the heat sink. The fan is controlled by a 100 degree F thermo switch that I screwed to the side of one of the charger's heat sink veins. I cut an air inlet hole from the Converter compartment upstream of fan and cut a second hole the warm area to be pushed out into the bedroom area of the camper. The fan will cycle on and off on its own as needed. As I have plenty of solar and a DC to DC charger also, I find my charger not needing to push a lot of amps mostly. I put the fan in preemptively, hope to not to need it much.

Thanks for the info. It will pull 45 amps pretty consistent after boondocking (560ah). Definitely gets toasty, but so much quieter than wfco.

Mounter is under the bed also. I have it mounted to some aluminum diamond plate over ply and drilled two 2-1/2Ē holes into the next compartment (outside passenger side storage)

I have been debating adding a fan if I can get a good quiet one.
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Old 03-12-2024, 08:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by G8trwood View Post
Thanks for the info. It will pull 45 amps pretty consistent after boondocking (560ah). Definitely gets toasty, but so much quieter than wfco.

Mounter is under the bed also. I have it mounted to some aluminum diamond plate over ply and drilled two 2-1/2Ē holes into the next compartment (outside passenger side storage)

I have been debating adding a fan if I can get a good quiet one.
I haven't noticed any burning smells with mine. It's mounted directly on a cabinet material surface. Victron says to: Install the charger on a non-flammable substrate and ensure there are no heat-sensitive items in the immediate vicinity; it is normal for the charger to become hot during operation. The combustion temperature of laminate is around 400C, so should be ok.

However, next time I have the bed apart I'll take a look; metal rails might be a good idea.
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Old 05-28-2024, 10:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKim View Post
Here's a link to my experience installing the mighty Victron Phoenix IP43. (@SVTRIDE, thanks for the shout out.) The thread also has a lot about the despised WFCO-AD and the PD9160AL replacement.

I'd agree that the PD is likely the best economical choice and has a great reputation. But as @SVTRIDE explains, if you have a lot of Victron equipment with the VE.Smart Networking it all plays together, and it's Bluetooth so you can monitor everything on their app. With VE.SN for example, on our GT there is about 8ft of wire to the positive bus bar and a resistive voltage drop. The charger working with the shunt will output a higher voltage (~17V) to get the correct charging voltage at the battery (~14.5V). It's also 50A and the despised WFCO was only putting out about 18A, with the Victron it's about 45A or so when bulk charging.

Yes, 15A is plenty for the charger. It consumes around 600W @50A DC which by my arithmetic translates to about 5A AC current. (I think I have this right).

I don't know much about the much cheaper 30A charger @vanderwielen suggests. I have four 100Ah batteries, so maybe too much for it. However it looks like it will fit the WFCO space, so less hassle. It doesn't have the VE.SN and I'm not too sure it's meant for this sort of application, but as I said I don't know much.
Hi - did you install the IP43 1+ 1 or the IP43 (3)? Seems like the (3) is made for multiple battery banks. Thank you.
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Old 05-28-2024, 02:48 PM   #20
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Hi - did you install the IP43 1+ 1 or the IP43 (3)? Seems like the (3) is made for multiple battery banks. Thank you.
Yes, the 1+1, I think it's pretty rare to have additional battery banks.
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