What to do about battery setup?

[Family Man]

I admittedly do not know enough about batteries to make this decision. We have had our 2017 25Fb twin for about 6 months now. We recently made an attempt to do some winter camping in Tenn. over the holidays and attempting to camp at Cade's Cove for a few nights without power. Two Interstate 12v batteries were fully charged if not close to full charge when arrived. Used furnace sparingly, set at 48-50 degrees in 27-30 degree temps and after 6 hours at the campsite, woke up at 1:00am and furnace had stopped working (blower wouldn't stay on b/c of low batteries). Needless to say, had coffee at sunrise (with inside temp at 32 degrees at that point) and drove down the mountain to the nearest site with power!

I know the cold zapps the battery life quickly, but I was extremely surprised in how little time it gave us. I have a suspicion that the batteries are bad and need replacing, but that brings up the question what to replace it with. I have seen a lot of posts in favor of 2 6 volt, golf cart type batteries, but I have no knowledge base to know if that is the right call, i.e. give us more battery life, be compatible with our current stock setup, or require any upgrades to any other components (ie. converter, solar panel system, etc).

I'd like to upgrade to best system since I am replacing batteries anyway. I just want to make an educated decision and need some help figuring out what that is!! Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

[PKI]

Chris - your homework assignment is to go to the blue box at the top of the page and type in "battery dead" "Battery upgrade" "use/store switch" "battery charging" and similar related titles. The threads should make for good reading.

You likely did not have the batteries fully charged. You may have damaged batteries. Boondocking in cold weather takes a bit of planning and a few mods, but is doable. One day/night is about right for a pair of interstates unless you are real good at conservation.

Now I'll get out of the way and let the experts explain it all to you. Pat

[mandolindave]

I started with the upgrade to two Trojan 6 volt " golf cart " batteries. The furnace blower depleted the charge in one or two nights. I removed them because they needed to be vented, and they didn't fit in my battery compartment. And they required checking the water.

I changed to Optima AGM ( absorbed glass mat...? ) They kinda don't need to be vented. They are sealed so you don't have to check distilled water levels. You could hook up 2,3,4,or 5 ( maybe more )in parallel. The drawback is the price about $ 275 a piece. They really look cool, and last a LONG time ( as far as years go ). When I had two, they lasted me about one or two nights if the furnace was used.

No matter what you use, you want all batts to be the same age.

The new trend is lithium batteries that I know next to nothing about. But that will get your research started

[billrector]

Originally Posted by Family Man

I admittedly do not know enough about batteries to make this decision. We have had our 2017 25Fb twin for about 6 months now. We recently made an attempt to do some winter camping in Tenn. over the holidays and attempting to camp at Cade's Cove for a few nights without power. Two Interstate 12v batteries were fully charged if not close to full charge when arrived. Used furnace sparingly, set at 48-50 degrees in 27-30 degree temps and after 6 hours at the campsite, woke up at 1:00am and furnace had stopped working (blower wouldn't stay on b/c of low batteries). Needless to say, had coffee at sunrise (with inside temp at 32 degrees at that point) and drove down the mountain to the nearest site with power!

I know the cold zapps the battery life quickly, but I was extremely surprised in how little time it gave us. I have a suspicion that the batteries are bad and need replacing, but that brings up the question what to replace it with. I have seen a lot of posts in favor of 2 6 volt, golf cart type batteries, but I have no knowledge base to know if that is the right call, i.e. give us more battery life, be compatible with our current stock setup, or require any upgrades to any other components (ie. converter, solar panel system, etc).

I'd like to upgrade to best system since I am replacing batteries anyway. I just want to make an educated decision and need some help figuring out what that is!! Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

I had a similar (not quite as bad) incident during our first camping trip. It turned out that one of the batteries had a bad cell and one was heading that way. Interstate replaced both under warranty.

These batteries are kept in horrible condition by the Airstream dealers. They sit on a lot in "Store" mode but have the parasitic load of the inverters and the propane detector. It does not take long for them to get below 12.2 volts and the damage begins.

I would suggest you get them tested by Interstate and replace with the same thing until you get a feel for how they work. Eventually, my recommendation would be to go with two 6-volt batteries in series. Many people have used low cost Costco batteries with good results but most will tell you to use Lifeline.

Good luck!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Another Monkey to throw into the mix.

Bob

[gypsydad]

All good advice above on checking the batteries out with Interstate. If bad, they typically will replace on the spot at no charge. They may offer upgrade credit, if you wanted to go AGM's; have to ask. They did for me and a few others I know.

Anyway, then you need to make sure they are "tended" properly when charging. There are several recent threads on options here, including replacing your OEM converter/charger with 4 stage converters. The OEM "converter/charger" in 2017 and earlier models, does not have "smart charging" technology built in; several of the newer models do, which is covered in these threads.

You learned the hard way about running the heater in cold weather without power...I would not risk camping in freezing temps without shore power...been there, done that...not pleasant waking up with no heat!

[billrector]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

All good advice above on checking the batteries out with Interstate. If bad, they typically will replace on the spot at no charge. They may offer upgrade credit, if you wanted to go AGM's; have to ask. They did for me and a few others I know.

Anyway, then you need to make sure they are "tended" properly when charging. There are several recent threads on options here, including replacing your OEM converter/charger with 4 stage converters. The OEM "converter/charger" in 2017 and earlier models, does not have "smart charging" technology built in; several of the newer models do, which is covered in these threads.

You learned the hard way about running the heater in cold weather without power...I would not risk camping in freezing temps without shore power...been there, done that...not pleasant waking up with no heat!

When I recently had my batteries replaced by Interstate under warranty, they would not let me upgrade to AGMs or to 6 volt batteries. I could upgrade in the same battery class only and I did not see a reason to do that.

[Fred L]

On a recent trip to the UP of Mich in late October, boondocking, the furnace ran quite often. Night time temps came down to about freezing a couple nights.
Furnace ran fine on batteries, but I didn't use much else other than the reading lights (LED) and occasional use of the stove light for meal prep.

One night I even forgot to close the overhead vent in the Fantastic fan and the heater seemed to be running constantly. I sleep in a 3 season down sleeping bag, so didn't effect me much at all.

I did charge the batteries daily with the generator for 1 - 2 hours of charging, but no other issues. The batteries are a few years old and not anything special, so will also need an upgrade in due time and also thinking about 6volt AGM. Eventually lithium, but would want the price to come down a bit first.

[Fred L]

Originally Posted by mandolindave

You could hook up 2,3,4,or 5 ( maybe more )in parallel.

Dave, can you expand on this just a bit. Am a novice when it comes to batteries, but presume if you have 4x6 vole AGM batteries youre still able to get 12.V? and much longer battery use?

Is charging still the same (although I expect it would take twice as long?)
And if no venting needed, can the batteries be moved inside to under a bench or bed?

[55AS]

Consensus seems to be that AGM's can be mounted inside without venting (I have done it twice now). Their self-discharge rate is a bit lower and they last longer. I think if you plan to boondock in cold weather you need to have some means of recharging your batteries - solar or generator.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by BambiTex

... I think if you plan to boondock in cold weather you need to have some means of recharging your batteries - solar or generator.

You can also easily charge your house batteries (if they are in the battery box) by using booster cables (I use 2 gauge) from your TV. My alternator can put out up to 160 amps.

[KMH25TWIN]

Originally Posted by Family Man

I admittedly do not know enough about batteries to make this decision. We have had our 2017 25Fb twin for about 6 months now. We recently made an attempt to do some winter camping in Tenn. over the holidays and attempting to camp at Cade's Cove for a few nights without power. Two Interstate 12v batteries were fully charged if not close to full charge when arrived. Used furnace sparingly, set at 48-50 degrees in 27-30 degree temps and after 6 hours at the campsite, woke up at 1:00am and furnace had stopped working (blower wouldn't stay on b/c of low batteries). Needless to say, had coffee at sunrise (with inside temp at 32 degrees at that point) and drove down the mountain to the nearest site with power!

I know the cold zapps the battery life quickly, but I was extremely surprised in how little time it gave us. I have a suspicion that the batteries are bad and need replacing, but that brings up the question what to replace it with. I have seen a lot of posts in favor of 2 6 volt, golf cart type batteries, but I have no knowledge base to know if that is the right call, i.e. give us more battery life, be compatible with our current stock setup, or require any upgrades to any other components (ie. converter, solar panel system, etc).

I'd like to upgrade to best system since I am replacing batteries anyway. I just want to make an educated decision and need some help figuring out what that is!! Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

Chris, I’ve had the exact experiences and have only been saved by shore power. My batteries are not even taking a charge in my semi-warm garage. I do plan to purchase a gen for the spring trout season as part of the fix. But I’m right with you on what and how to replace. I’ve read some threads where electric / battery upgrades run into the thousands $$ (lithium and what-not). I will read the responses to your post with interest.

[chugchug]

This also might be a problem with the charger.

I think the onboard charger has a problem not reaching boost level, topping at 13.6V. Once I stop the generator the voltage drops to 12.5V which means that the batteries not fully charged to start the night.

The voltage drops as low as 11.3V by morning, and I have to run the generator again.

[GammaDog]

FamilyMan: welcome to the Forums! I think PKI had a great suggestion since there are many options and much already written.

That said, I had a similar experience and adopted an unconventional solution. I needed more capacity (you should read enough to understand the term "amp hours" and particularly the usable amp hours of various types of batteries) but I didn't use 6v golf cart batteries because they are heavy and I'm near my truck's limit on tongue weight. I didn't use lithium because of cost. I recognized that most of the time my two Interstate group 24 batteries provide plenty of juice. So, I added a 12 volt quick disconnect to the side of my battery box and bought three new interstates. Two of those replaced my originals (which didn't hold a full charge due to age and abuse) and the third rides in a plastic battery box and has a quick disconnect. I plug it in to charge before a trip. It rides in the truck or trailer depending on where I want the weight and I use it when I know I need more amp hours (especially to support furnace operation when the temps are low). It recharges with the other batteries when I'm on generator, solar or at the next hook-up site. That approach delivers the same amp hours as a typical 6 volt setup at lower cost and no additional tongue weight.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by Fred L

Dave, can you expand on this just a bit. Am a novice when it comes to batteries, but presume if you have 4x6 vole AGM batteries youre still able to get 12.V? and much longer battery use?

Is charging still the same (although I expect it would take twice as long?)
And if no venting needed, can the batteries be moved inside to under a bench or bed?

Fred, if you put two 6V batteries in series, you’ll basically will have a 12V battery combination. Series means connecting neg of one battery to the pos terminal of the other battery. Then you’ll have 12V across the remaining terminals.

If you put two batteries in parallel (pos connected to pos, neg connected to neg) you don’t get increased voltage, but will provide additional capacity.

You can expand on that concept with 4 or 6 batteries, making 12V pairs, then connecting the pairs in parallel. It would be a lot easier to explain with a diagram. Just make sure you don’t combine batteries to give more than the nominal 12V or you’ll damage your 12VDC appliances.

[tjdonahoe]

Sure is a lot easier to just to carry our 2000 Honda, we can let it run all night if we have to ....

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Sure is a lot easier to just to carry our 2000 Honda, we can let it run all night if we have to ....

Agreed. Our first trip out was in a state park in NJ after picking up our trailer. We didn’t realize beforehand there were no hookups. So we boondocked for 3 days. Had to run furnace at night.

I learned the hard way that “deep cycle” batteries aren’t really designed to be deeply discharged. Otherwise I’d have recharged them with jumper cables.

We replaced the batteries (standard deep cycle flooded), bought a couple of generators and are ready for “next time”.

Lesson learned.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

Fred, if you put two 6V batteries in series, you’ll basically will have a 12V battery combination. Series means connecting neg of one battery to the pos terminal of the other battery. Then you’ll have 12V across the remaining terminals.

If you put two batteries in parallel (pos connected to pos, neg connected to neg) you don’t get increased voltage, but will provide additional capacity.

You can expand on that concept with 4 or 6 batteries, making 12V pairs, then connecting the pairs in parallel. It would be a lot easier to explain with a diagram. Just make sure you don’t combine batteries to give more than the nominal 12V or you’ll damage your 12VDC appliances.

Fred,
But just like tjdonohoe said, after you replace your batteries, get a generator or solar panels. The name of the game is to not let the batteries discharge past 50% (12VDC). Fully charged is 12.7 v without any load.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by billrector

When I recently had my batteries replaced by Interstate under warranty, they would not let me upgrade to AGMs or to 6 volt batteries. I could upgrade in the same battery class only and I did not see a reason to do that.

Could be they changed policy, maybe your dealer different, or perhaps the person you dealt with did not know they could do that? I know I switched my first set out on my 2014 model no issues for AGM upgrade, just more money. My second set on my 2017, I was offered the upgrade, but declined. My buddy, however, on his 23' 2017, did upgrade few months back. Likely too late for you, but you might try to call and talk with manager and ask policy..not sure why some dealers would offer this if not all of them from Interstate?

[Fred L]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

It would be a lot easier to explain with a diagram. .

Many thanks and probably one of the better detailed explanations I have read.
So... just to make sure I understood it, I drew a rudimentary diagram. ( hoping this comes through properly as the rotation edit was stubborn to say the least..)

So "if" this is the correct way to connect 4 x 6volt batteries, how/where do you connect to the trailer wiring ?

Does it need to go to the extreme of 1- for the neg to 4+ for the pos?
Assuming also that this is probably 280lbs worth of batteries.
I also run a generator, have 1 Honda 2000i and the 2000ic is on order (more for 4000 watts home back up than the AS).