What steps are needed to move batteries inside?

[David F]

Hope I am not hijacking this tread, but does anyone make a vented deep cycle lead acid battery? For instance, automotive starting batteries have vent ports that vent the gases to the exterior of the car (for instance when battery is mounted in trunk or inside cabin). But, I have been unsuccessful finding a deep cycle battery that has the vent port.

Also, most battery boxes are not intended to capture the gases and vent them elsewhere. For instance the boxes referenced/linked in earlier post does nothing to vent the gases. Sealed battery boxes with a vent hose would be needed, but my '67 Caravel does not have the (vertical) space for a battery box as in mounted under the Gaucho.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by David F

Hope I am not hijacking this tread, but does anyone make a vented deep cycle lead acid battery? For instance, automotive starting batteries have vent ports that vent the gases to the exterior of the car (for instance when battery is mounted in trunk or inside cabin). .....

Hi

Conventional auto batteries do not have that feature. They simply vent from the top of the battery. I have never seen a deep cycle battery with a hookup like that on it.

Standard practice with flooded lead acids is to not use them in an enclosed space. There always should be an open vent to the outside world. Since the hydrogen you are worried about moves up, the vent needs to be at the top of the space. You will see people ignoring this and not having problems. People also seem to smoke cigarettes while filling the lawn mower gas tank.

Lithiums are one way to go. They have their own issues and requirements for support electronics. If you go that way, do the deep dive on setting them up right (or have somebody do it for you). The electronics do cost money. The cells cost even more. No matter where you are, unexpected fires are no fun, even if they are quite rare. Loosing your "10,000 cycle" batteries after 1,000 cycles is also no fun. Unfortunately it does happen from time to time.

Multiple systems are yet another approach. If you have a soon to be un-used battery box on the tongue, can you power part of the AS with that? Then put in a second system That takes care of the "rest of the stuff". You already own all the gear to run the front box .... If powering an inverter is the main issue, this may be the best approach. Even with two 100AH AGM's a 1KW inverter is pulling at a C/2 sort of level. That's not going to give you anywhere near the "rated" 2 x 100AH. It also will do nothing good for the number of charge cycles you get before they die. That's before you even look at what the wimpy wires are all doing at that level.

Bob

[lewster]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Lew, thank you so much. I had it backwards it seems. Not at my trailer now so can't look. Do have a few questions.


So 1 goes to 6 and 2 goes to 5? Or is there a breaker before 5?


I currently have the stock 1000w inverter but was going to go ahead and run wires as if I upgraded to 2000w in the event I do in the future. I'd just use the same wire between batteries. Figuring on 1/0 AWG. That should be good for 2000w, correct?



And yes, I'll upgrade the DC wiring while I'm doing all of this.



Great. Will wire that way as well.

Thanks again!

So 1 goes to 6 and 2 goes to 5? Or is there a breaker before 5?

The left side of the disconnect solenoid in your photo is the 12VDC power feed from the batteries to your fuse block. The switch at the door is what operates the solenoid and provides the disconnect function . The #5 cable on the left comes out of one of the 50 amp auto-re-set circuit breakers on the 12VDC positive bus (IIRC, the second from the left).

I currently have the stock 1000w inverter but was going to go ahead and run wires as if I upgraded to 2000w in the event I do in the future. I'd just use the same wire between batteries. Figuring on 1/0 AWG. That should be good for 2000w, correct?

I use 2/0 for the DC cabling for a Magnum MS-2012 2000 watt sine wave inverter/charger for cable runs UP TO 5 feet in length (each side). For longer runs from the batteries, I use 4/0 up to 10'. Longer runs require double 4/0. 1/0 is fine for a 1000 watt inverter up to 10', although I always try to minimize the length of the DC cables to the inverter.

[Biker]

Lew, how are you connecting larger wires to the stock inverter? When I moved my batteries under the front bed I used 2/0 to connect everything. I originally ran the 2/0 to the stock inverter as well but had to downsize it to 2 awg because the 2/0 was to large to fit in the connection point and I wasn't comfortable just trimming away excess wire to make it fit.

[Eonicks]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

My jack already works in either position. Yours doesn't?

Mine does. What I was trying to get across is that if you wire to a bus bar it could be subject to the use/ store relay. So you have to plan on extending the wire to your new battery location.

[David F]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Conventional auto batteries do not have that feature. They simply vent from the top of the battery. I have never seen a deep cycle battery with a hookup like that on it.

Standard practice with flooded lead acids is to not use them in an enclosed space. There always should be an open vent to the outside world. Since the hydrogen you are worried about moves up, the vent needs to be at the top of the space. You will see people ignoring this and not having problems. People also seem to smoke cigarettes while filling the lawn mower gas tank.

Lithiums are one way to go. They have their own issues and requirements for support electronics. If you go that way, do the deep dive on setting them up right (or have somebody do it for you). The electronics do cost money. The cells cost even more. No matter where you are, unexpected fires are no fun, even if they are quite rare. Loosing your "10,000 cycle" batteries after 1,000 cycles is also no fun. Unfortunately it does happen from time to time.

Multiple systems are yet another approach. If you have a soon to be un-used battery box on the tongue, can you power part of the AS with that? Then put in a second system That takes care of the "rest of the stuff". You already own all the gear to run the front box .... If powering an inverter is the main issue, this may be the best approach. Even with two 100AH AGM's a 1KW inverter is pulling at a C/2 sort of level. That's not going to give you anywhere near the "rated" 2 x 100AH. It also will do nothing good for the number of charge cycles you get before they die. That's before you even look at what the wimpy wires are all doing at that level.

Bob

Automotive starting batteries that are mounted in the cabin or in the trunk have an external vent port and plastic hose to route off gassing to exterior of vehicle...very common for sure. Starting batteries with vent port are more common than not since you don't have to use them if not needed. I just cannot find deep cycle batteries with the external vent port. I guess I will have to go with an AGM battery. Even AGM automotive starting batteries have the external vent port (which is the case with my X5 TV).

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Biker

Lew, how are you connecting larger wires to the stock inverter? When I moved my batteries under the front bed I used 2/0 to connect everything. I originally ran the 2/0 to the stock inverter as well but had to downsize it to 2 awg because the 2/0 was to large to fit in the connection point and I wasn't comfortable just trimming away excess wire to make it fit.

Simple........I don't use the stock inverters.........

They are usually the first thing to go in my upgraded systems. Any other type of quality inverter uses connecting studs that will accept a standard battery eyelet with any cable size.

But to really answer your question. The larger cables are used to minimize voltage drop in the 12VDC (nominal) power circuit to the inverter. It's OK to use the largest gauge that will fit into the WFCO screw terminal block so long as you keep the overall length to a absolute minimum.

A good way to do this is to use a terminal block (3/8 stud) for the ends of your 2/0 cables and place them in immediate proximity to the inverter connections. Then use the largest size that will fit the inverter (2AWG if it will fit) , terminate one end with a standard eyelet and strip the other end and feed it into the inverter connector. You can usually use 3" or less for this.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Another practical benefit of running to a terminal block first is that the mechanical load from the 2/0 wire does not show up on the inverter. If you are cheap, this might let you use fat strand cable (which is pretty stiff) as opposed to the super duper (flexible / expensive) welding cable with the fine strands.

Bob

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by lewster

In addition, I don't 'cross-wire' the inverter and DC connections, preferring to have both the inverter positive cable and the DC positive power supply coming from terminal #2 in your diagram and both negative cables from terminal #1.

Lew,

Ordering my supplies. Since one of them will be a Victron BMV-700 wouldn't I want to run a single connection from terminal #1 to the shunt, and then from the shunt to a junction lug where the DC negative and inverter negative feed can split?

[lewster]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Lew,

Ordering my supplies. Since one of them will be a Victron BMV-700 wouldn't I want to run a single connection from terminal #1 to the shunt, and then from the shunt to a junction lug where the DC negative and inverter negative feed can split?

Yep! You have it right.


All negative loads must run thru the shunt first and then to the load/distribution points.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Thanks. Close to starting this project.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

As noted in many threads here, having the battery negative come loose creates all sorts of weird issues. It's well worth a bit of "overkill" when wiring in this sort of thing. That goes double when it will be *you* trying to work out what it going wrong (at 3AM, in the rain, with the bears, after a big party, with no tools, ...).

Bob

[SCOTTinNJ]

Success! Thanks everyone.

[SCOTTinNJ]

"Spoke" too soon. Just hooked up to shore power and it seems my battery disconnect switch completely kills all 12v power in the off position. I must have wired it incorrectly to the 12v positive bus. That part was a bit confusing.

Any suggestions before I open things up and investigate?

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by lewster

The left side of the disconnect solenoid in your photo is the 12VDC power feed from the batteries to your fuse block. The switch at the door is what operates the solenoid and provides the disconnect function . The #5 cable on the left comes out of one of the 50 amp auto-re-set circuit breakers on the 12VDC positive bus (IIRC, the second from the left).

This might be where I messed up. Is the power feed sent directly from the batteries to #5? I believe I currently have that going to the bus bar.

If power from the batteries connects to #5, where does the wire on the right hand side of the disconnect solenoid go? To the top copper part of the bus bar or the bottom with the reset breakers?

Just so it's clear, when I switch the store/use switch to store all 12v is shut off even when I'm on shore power. The light doesn't even light up.

[GenXair]

Nice job Scott!
I'm planning on moving AGM batteries under the bed as well.

How long did the project take to complete?

[Biker]

The wire on right goes to the stock bus bar. Here is a picture of mine for reference.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by Biker

The wire on right goes to the stock bus bar. Here is a picture of mine for reference.
Attachment 287560

Thanks! Will have to check mine.

Very nice install. Makes me want to rewire the airstream rats nest.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by Biker

The wire on right goes to the stock bus bar. Here is a picture of mine for reference.
Attachment 287560

Biker, interestingly I tried to follow your diagram and it didn't work. After some helpful advice by Lewster on the positive side I realized I had the negative side wired incorrectly (I swapped the two negatives coming from the original battery box).

Good news is that it all works now. Thank again to all.

Biker, my battery positive cable now runs directly to the left bottom side of auto reset breaker. Then from the second to bottom left auto reset breaker to the the left side of the store/use solenoid. The right side of the store/use breaker then runs to to the fuse block up in front of the trailer by the converter. That seemed to do the trick.

[Biker]

Great! Glad you got it working. Mine works as is. I never removed the short wire on the right side of the solenoid so that is how it came wired from factory. Left side goes towards converter. Guess it's just a switch with no regard for which side the load is on.