What order to upgrade?

[b2flyer23]

I am looking into upgrading my 2019 FC 27FB airstream with the battleborn, victron, solar, etc upgrades. Is it possible to upgrade over time without shelling out the full $$ upfront? If so is there a specific order to upgrade? Or is it best to do all at once? I was thinking I could go ahead and get 2 battleborn batteries to replace the lead acid ones now and then in a couples months purchase/work on the next piece of the puzzle and so on.

[lsbrodsky]

I'll let someone who has done the slow approach really answer your question; I did it all at once and did not have to worry about whether I made the right choices for compatibility. However, here is the caution I have for you. A lot of this equipment becomes obsolete fairly quickly. Just as an example, my LiFePO4 batteries by Victron were superseded by batteries with more tech but different ancillary electronics to complete the suite. While newer Victron electronics would connect just fine, the method of wiring everything up would be different.
Larry

[57Vintage]

If you're going to upgrade to lithium batteries, you probably need to consider an upgrade to your charger at the same time, not knowing what is in you 2019. If you plan to move the location of the new batteries then new wiring comes into play also.

I would suggest looking at solar. You can start with 1 or 2 panels (either suitcase of mounted). If permanently mounted, size MPPT and wire gauge to match your final goal in wattage.

Of course if your current batteries or other electrical equipment is acting up that can change priorities.

[BayouBiker]

Upgrading a bit at a time means its Christmas 5 times a year!

Do the solar first and get a controller that is LiFePO4 and wet cell compatible. Then do the Victron or equivalent, the charts and reports will baffle the best of us. Finally splurge for the batteries if you still haven't had your fill of living off the grid. Okay maybe a bit dramatic...

[Trons4u]

Just an FYI. I saw that Lion Energy Lithium's were on sale through Costco for $750 for a 105AH battery. Save ya $200 per battery. I don't know a lot about Lion Energy's batteries. Will Prowse on Youtube did a bunch of testing/comparison's on these and Battle Borns.

https://www.costco.com/CatalogSearch...rd=lion+energy

[AirMiles]

Sure its possible to upgrade the 12V system in stages. Just keep adding to it until you are satisfied. When the installation meets all your power needs you can stop adding items.

If the existing batteries are still functional, I would install a Victron 100/50 Smartsolar Controller and at least one pair of 100W Renogy Compact solar panels onto the factory prewire. You can then add additional pairs of solar panels until you get to 600W. I got along just fine with 400W of solar panels. You may be satisfied with the stock batteries and 400W of solar.

The second item I would get is a quiet inverter generator. With 400W of solar and an inverter generator I could live continuously without shore power and rarely need to use the generator, even with stock batteries.

Then, if you need to run the furnace overnight while boondocking, you probably will need to upgrade the batteries. I installed a pair of 6V golf cart batteries that can easily run the furnace, set at 68 degrees, all night long in below freezing temperatures. My 600W of solar then easily recharges the batteries each day while powering all my daytime 12V needs so I can run the furnace again the next night. In the event that I park under a full canopy of trees or its a dark rainy day, I can use the generator to recharge the batteries (very infrequently). If I needed more power than my 6V golf cart batteries provide, the next step would be two, or four, 100AH Lithium batteries.

That is how I would proceed if I were improving my 12V system in steps. There's lots of good information on Airforums on how to improve the Airstream 12V system. What is needed depends on your usage and your budget. A couple of thousand dollars can go a long ways toward being shore power independent if you can self install your solar.

[rodsterinfl]

b2flyer23, I started this summer with the same idea of upgrading the solar, charger, controller, battery and started doing the research. I started changing direction as I counted the cost and my system. For me, it became less of a what to do first and a rethink- just a thought.

I do not speak for the majority but it seems that whenever I camp, I end up in the woods or at least under a tree. My rooftop panel is large but that scenario kills the benefit of solar. I can tilt it either way but shade is shade. Considering this at the time, I purchased two suitcase panels and another battery. That was four years ago. The nice part is that I was portable enough to get sun just about anywhere.

Since then, I have used the system once. The two Airstream batteries are outside and the third battery is under the sofa (AGM). So, on the upgrade, I would have needed a new charger converter for lithium, a new charge controller for lithium (if I ran the system as one, and lithium batteries.

I decided, after speaking to a morningstar specialist, to forgo the upgrade and move in another direction. I am going to retain the old system as it works well and is more economical. I did upgrade the charge controllers on the suitcase panels to lithium capable.

Here's where it gets interesting. I talked this over with the engineer and he agreed. On their chart, due to the size of my system, 400 watts, my system optimizes with the current controllers in parallel. I explained that I needed portable charging and shared my vision with him to see if it would work. He thought it was a great idea- to purchase a lithium solar generator that can be accessed by all the panels and yet supplement my current battery bank. This allowed me to keep the old system as it is and then upgrade to lithium and add two more batteries to a total of five without trying to redesign the trailer and spend a ton of money. The generator can also power the trailer for about 4 hours with my 11K (1250 watt) ac running and built-in converter charger set to store (I am told). Granted, it is more for me to carry but it makes a lot of sense and, I can use it other places besides the trailer.

These were the same nice people who, when I got my solar, explained to me the differences of PWM and MPPT controllers and how that although MPPT controllers manage nuances- immediate light sensing, variation in panels, etc., that PWM are only slightly less overall in smaller system designs. I run three parallel PWM controllers and set them to only charge at the next to highest setting or store at 13.8 volts. That way, they do not need to be synchronized as they sense the charge state and either charge or store. If I need to go with 4 stage, I can use the large panel alone or charge the solar generator with the two suitcases- the charge controller in the AS is a charge duo so it can manage two different battery bank types and charging methods. I like the options. I am waiting on the generator. It has its own MPPT controller to optimize the power coming its way. It makes more sense for me as I am not full time.

[jimdelane]

As noted, you have a lot of other choices in manufacturers other than BattleBorn which are just as good. BattleBorn just happens to be the brand name (like Ford or Kraft) that is most recognized.
You might consider looking at getting a 200Ah or 300Ah battery which can cost less than (2) Battleborn. Also Most 100Ah battery have a 100A BMS which limits your discharge current to 100A. Some higher AH batteries offer more robust BMS with 200-300A discharge. You may not discharge 200 amps but if you are running some combination of lights, fridge, microwave, waterheater, hair dryer, etc., you can exceed the 100A limit and stress a 100A BMS.

Your lithium batteries best charge with a lithium chargers. However, you can put off buying these until later. Progressive Dynamics makes chargers and has some good information about batteries in RVs and using existing lead acid battery chargers.
https://www.progressivedyn.com/frequ...hium-charging/

Basically, you can use them if you set them right. However, they are not as fast or efficient as lithium specific products - but they will charge faster than lead acid batteries..

Your lithium batteries best charge with a lithium solar charge controller. You can use an older lead acid based charge controller but same inefficiencies of a lead acid battery charger. It will generally work but just not as well. If you are putting in new solar, consider going with 24V panels. Same watts as 12V but with less amps. The charge controller will drop the voltage and increase the amps to the battery. It is just a little more efficient.

Most lithium battery manufacturers recommend a charging current of not more than 50% of your battery Ah capacity (not battery bank). So a 100Ah battery is 50A max charge for best life - although the battery can take up to 100A charge current. Also, your wiring may not be set up for more than 30-45A charge current anyway.

Some battery suppiers to consider are

AIMS Power
https://www.aimscorp.net/aims-power/

AMPS Lithium
https://lithiummarinebattery.com/shop

ReLion
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium

SmartBattery
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com...-rv-deep-cycle

[cazual6]

My wife only lets me upgrade what she thinks she wants without her knowing my other bank account. So I ease my way into it. Little upgrades at the end of the year, typically less than $10k at a time won't raise any red flags with the wife.

This year, 2020, will be 5 stage converter, quieter water pump and a few stainless steel upgrades.

2021 solar (maybe this year).