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explore more · 12-09-2016, 07:45 AM

I decided to tackle installing 5 of these 100Ah Elite Power Systems batteries in my Airstream, with LOTS of help from my good friend Corban. Ok, let's rephrase that... I helped HIM. This is more of a "how I" video rather than a "how-to." Regardless, I figured some people will be interested in the process, and it may answer some questions they may have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YDa81k2puM

lsbrodsky · 12-09-2016, 10:24 AM

I am curious as to why you went this route rather than Victron. You seem to be working with AM Solar on solar stuff and they also sell Victron lithium equipment, with complete installation packages. The Victron seems like a cleaner and easier install.
Larry

explore more · 12-09-2016, 10:43 AM

The terms of our agreement with AM Solar did not include batteries, so we did a lot of research. We trust AM Solar, and if AM Solar trusts the victrons, that speaks volumes.

The victron lithium batteries that AM Solar sells are extremely new. Here's why we didn't go with them.

1) at the time we were looking to get batteries, they couldn't be shipped, and we didn't have time (or the energy or budget) to drive to Oregon and back just to pick up some batteries.
2) avaialability - They weren't available when we needed them
3) size - they're not as configurable in different sizes and shapes like the elite packs
4) Not DIY install friendly (at least that's the info we gathered from talking to them). We chatted with a well-known Airstream installer who said the new victron batteries added 10 hours to his install time vs the other lithium batteries he used to install. He mentioned that they're more complicated to install than what he previously installed. That worried us since we were doing it ourselves.
5) even if we wanted to pay someone to install it for us, wait times were in the 4-6 month range. That didn't work with our timetable, and it greatly impacted our budget.
6) These packs are so new that we don't really have any long-term real-world feedback on them. A lot of the bloggers we follow (technomadia, gone with the wynns, boldadventure, mali mish, etc.) are using the elite packs with great results. I simply don't have enough info on the new victron units to feel comfortable spending that much money on an unknown.
7) they're a fixed size. The elite panels are configurable in a variety of sizes and shapes to fit different shaped installs.

On the plus side, I'm betting the victron batteries don't have stripped terminals with helicoils pulling out.

Here's why we went with Elite cells:

1) long-term, real-world feedback from some of our favorite bloggers we follow (technomadia, gone with the wynns, mali mish, bold adventure, etc)
2) the BMS measures each cell individually and they self-balance and allow certain cells to charge while others "rest" when charging.
3) availability
4) ease of shipping. We weren't wanting to drive to Oregon just to pick up batteries and drive back
5) long-term, real-world feedback from some of our favorite bloggers we follow (technomadia, gone with the wynns, mali mish, bold adventure, etc) with a good reputation.
6) they were cheaper
7) more support available

I'm not implying that the elite cells are better than the victrons. They were, however, more convenient for our needs at that point in our life. When you're full-timing it's tough to schedule a solar install 4 months out. I'm excited to see the lithium battery technology continue to improve. I look forward to hearing more about these victron batteries as people start using them more.

explore more · 12-09-2016, 10:58 AM

For someone who is paying for an install anyway, I think the victron units might make a lot of sense.

We've only met one person on the road with them (a delightful fellow airforums member). We met her about 3 days after she had them installed by a well-known Airstream installer.

She liked them, but due to the way they were installed in her 27FB, they upset the balance of the trailer when towing a bit (they weren't perfectly centered). She was considering relocating or even removing a few of the batteries for better weight distribution. Aside from the weird towing behavior of the non-centered batteries, she seemed very happy with them.

KJRitchie · 12-09-2016, 11:19 AM

How is the towing with your 140lbs of batteries not centered?

Kelvin

**Rocinante** · 12-09-2016, 11:24 AM

Looks really great and will be very interested to see the rest of the job. Given we have a 27FB, we would probably put the batteries under our bed vs. in the closet, but this is a very cool setup. Thanks for sharing what worked great, the lessons learned, and the creative process. Super-helpful to see all aspects of the work.

lsbrodsky · 12-09-2016, 11:38 AM

Thanks for your reply. I have only one point of disagreement. The Victron batteries are extremely user friendly to install, setup, and operate. Between AM Solar and Victron, configuring your charger and solar controller to conform to lithiums (assuming use of Victron hardware) is a snap. The Victron cell balancing is internal and only requires 2 wires from the batteries to the BMS, wires that are already integrated into the batteries.
Oh, and of course mine were shipped to me, drop shipped from Victron.
I would certainly agree that the size of the Elite COULD be smaller, depending on desired amp-hours and actual configuration.
I applaud your courage in taking the path you did.
Larry

explore more · 12-09-2016, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

How is the towing with your 140lbs of batteries not centered?

So far so good. Since we positioned them directly over the axles, I think the effect is minimized. I've always been curious if the stove/sink/shower side or bathroom/dinette/fridge side was heavier on an Airstream. I could see someone easily loading a good 60llbs of food into a fridge, or 60 lbs of clothing and items into a closet. I'm sure the closet wasn't meant to hold 144lbs of batteries on the floor, but that's why we reinforced it. so far so good; it doesn't feel like it's "leaning" one way or the other.

I think towing with half-ful tanks would be far worse than weighting all your batteries on one side.

explore more · 12-09-2016, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Looks really great and will be very interested to see the rest of the job. Given we have a 27FB, we would probably put the batteries under our bed vs. in the closet, but this is a very cool setup. Thanks for sharing what worked great, the lessons learned, and the creative process. Super-helpful to see all aspects of the work.

Cool. Glad to see it helps. I know I sure benefit from videos like this where I can see the different pieces come together. I'm sure there are better ways to install these. Hopefully the next guy learns from my mistakes and improves upon it.

Meeks · 12-09-2016, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by explore more

I decided to tackle installing 5 of these 100Ah Elite Power Systems batteries in my Airstream, with LOTS of help from my good friend Corban. Ok, let's rephrase that... I helped HIM. This is more of a "how I" video rather than a "how-to." Regardless, I figured some people will be interested in the process, and it may answer some questions they may have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YDa81k2puM

Fabulous post and so helpful! Thanks for posting. Keep 'em coming!

explore more · 12-09-2016, 01:32 PM

Thanks. We have one more episode finalizing the battery install coming up in a week or so.

We also did a 7-part series installing our solar panels, and a 2-part series on solar basics for people who want to understand how solar systems work. I'm sure all that stuff is way too basic for you guys though.

I'm in the big leagues here with all this lithium stuff. I still have a lot to learn...

Meeks · 12-09-2016, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by explore more

Thanks. We have one more episode finalizing the battery install coming up in a week or so.

We also did a 7-part series installing our solar panels, and a 2-part series on solar basics for people who want to understand how solar systems work. I'm sure all that stuff is way too basic for you guys though.

I'm in the big leagues here with all this lithium stuff. I still have a lot to learn...

Not too basic for me! So much to learn!

**Rocinante** · 12-09-2016, 05:15 PM

For your roof work, it's Interesting that you went with DiCor for everything instead of Sikaflex 221. What made you choose one vs. the other? One thing I can say, though, is that Sikaflex is *not* self-leveling. Looks exactly like it did when I squirted it out of the tube, whereas DiCor nicely flattens out after you apply it.

explore more · 12-09-2016, 06:47 PM

I'm no airstream expert. Sikaflex might have been the better choice.

I understand that Sikaflex is an adhesive as well. I didn't really need to stick anything down.

I remember when I first got my airstream I was researching what sealant to use on the roof. I found a thread that seemed 50/50 split between dicor and sikaflex.

When we ordered our solar stuff from am solar, I told them it was going on an Airstream. They sent dicor with it, so I assumed that's what they use on the airstream installs.

When I ordered 3 more panels yesterday, they said "do you want dicor or sikaflex? We usually use Sikaflex on Airstream installs."
Doh!

So... I guess that's the long way of saying I probably should have used Sikaflex, but I was misinformed and thought dicor would be just as good. So far so good though and I'm sure I'll be fine with the dicor I used.

**wulfraat** · 12-09-2016, 08:27 PM

Either dicor or sikaflex will work fine and hold up. Personally for the feet of the solar mounts I think you are actually better off with dicor. But it's 6 one way and 1/2 dozen the other.

Btw I watched your videos. Well done. You've got a serious amount of patience!

**Rocinante** · 12-09-2016, 08:37 PM

Awesome, thanks for the notes. Those wonderful AM Solar feet -I used them to mount a couple of SureCall omnidirectional antennas, using 2 of those feet per antenna. Works great. For those mounts I cleaned the roof mounting points with mineral spirits and primed them with 3M Primer 94 before sticking the feet down and then covering them with Sikaflex. I expect that your approach, especially given you also used screws and covered it all with Dicor, should work just fine.

In case you're curious:
Here's a close-up mount we built from those feet: http://www.casarocinante.com/Blog-As...ty/i-NjjTCsz/A
Here's a close-up of the antenna, with foot, mounted and sealed to the roof (no screws, hoping it stays put): http://www.casarocinante.com/Blog-As...ty/i-f3jw5zL/A

lewster · 12-10-2016, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Either dicor or sikaflex will work fine and hold up. Personally for the feet of the solar mounts I think you are actually better off with dicor. But it's 6 one way and 1/2 dozen the other.

Btw I watched your videos. Well done. You've got a serious amount of patience!

Actually, SikaFlex 221, being both a sealant and tenacious adhesive, is far superior to Dicor in many ways. It not only seals the VHB tape from water penetration, but provides a very high strength secondary bond for the mounting feet to the trailer or coach roof.

In addition, Dicor has a very high VOC content and will dry and start to show cracks within 12-18 months while SikaFlex is far more durable and resilient.

If you are looking specifically for a high-solids self leveling product, then Alpha Sealants 1021 would be my first choice........

Lew Farber

**wulfraat** · 12-10-2016, 02:37 PM

Explore more - are you running your AC of of the lithiums? If so how big is you AC unit (btu) and how big is your inverter?

**Rocinante** · 12-10-2016, 02:50 PM

Per one of his solar installation videos, their trailer now has a single standard AC unit. Because they mostly boondock, they pulled out the second one and gave it away to a friend in favor of replacing it with a nice Fantastic Fan. Don't know for sure whether they plan to run the AC off Lithium batteries though.

explore more · 12-10-2016, 03:57 PM

It's funny, that's the #1 question we get: can we run ac all the time. In the 6 months we have been fulltiming, we have used the ac only 3 or 4 times, and we were at a park plugged in. We follow the weather so we aren't typically in climates where we need to run the ac. Even our fantastic fans are even rarely used. We usually just crack a window or two and get some nice cross breezes going through the airstream.

Could we run our ac off the batteries? Absolutely. Will we? Probably not, but who knows. We sold our generator, so we the only options for us to run ac will be to run ac off batteries or off a pedestal at a park.

Our inverter I'd a magnum 3000w hybrid. Unsure how many btus our ac is, since we hardly use it. It's the factory ac unit in a 2010 flying cloud 30.