VICTRON mutiplus goes into INVERT mode and then disconnects ext AC

[waninae39]

i have had the same setup for 2 years. now the MULTIPLUS 12v/3000W/50A is acting funny

it is connected to an external 30 A source
i have the BMV712 and the victron control panel

When i add a 900 watt load, it immediately goes into INVERTING mode and disconnects the AC supply
then the BMV 712 reports that the lion battery that was at 14.2V is now low at 11.46v
3 seconds later it switch to BULK mode, reconnects the external AC and the LION battery is now at 13.4v
when the load is removed, it goes to ABSORB mode and the LION battery is now at 14.3v

why is it doing this ?
how do i fix this

did something change with a FW update?

the file name on each pic tells what state the MUTIPLUS is in

[lsbrodsky]

I cannot help, but I will say for this kind of stuff, if it works right, I never update the firmware. My multi has the firmware version from my initial installation.
Larry

[GMFL]

Where and how are the Lion Energy batteries wired into the system.

[waninae39]

this is the schematic

[wulfraat]

Interesting.

1. What is the 30A source - proper shore power or a genset?

2. Did you upgrade the Multi Firmware or are you still on v424? I am interested in why "AC1" is being displayed on the multi-control vs. the typical power assist current limit setting of 0-50 when in invert mode.

3. Have you changed any of the multi settings like Shore Limit via Victron Connect or VE Configure laptop app?

4. Silly but are all terminals at the batteries tight and snug?

5. Have you checked your physical connections on your blue sea (or other) 12v high current switches to ensure they are tight?

6. you mention Lion in your post - but your photo show BB. are the Lion

My gut says hardware failure - potentially your mains detect but more likely your BMV shunt which may be giving false voltage readings under instant load in assist mode.

using your CCGX, can you set the system to use your CCGX for voltage sense (not BMV) and try the test again?

[waninae39]

the multiplus is running V430
The AC is connected into a dedicate 30A connector on the side of the house

i don't know why AC1 is listed. how do i change that?

The battery connection were tight when i installed the LION for summer usage a few weeks ago. i will double check them to make sure

i cant change much on the WEb based Victron Connect
I will try the phone based app
I have used the VE Configure laptop windows app in over 2 years

[waninae39]

i changed the seeing on the colour control panel from grid to Shore. Still the same issue.
i switched it back to grid as that is what i always had.

i don't know why the display shows AC1
the control know has no affect

[waninae39]

is the ac1 on the colour display an indication of some problem?
The BMV712 is V:403

the MUITIPLUS is V:2702430

the colour display is V:2.53

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by waninae39

is the ac1 on the colour display an indication of some problem?
The BMV712 is V:403

the MUITIPLUS is V:2702430

the colour display is V:2.53

I have more or less the sames setup. I've never in two years of use seen my Multicontrol say "AC1." It always just stays at whatever I set my AC current limit to. Pretty weird.

I'm likely too courageous on these things but, assuming all the connections are good, I'd probably update the firmware on the all the devices. Maybe some flash memory somewhere dropped a bit or???

It sure doesn't seem like the battery voltage should be dropping like that which does seem to point to a connection problem or maybe a battery failure.

Not much help, I know.

[wulfraat]

Did this behavior start after a recent upgrade to the firmware on any given component? If so which component?

Second you’re referring to lion batteries… Is that a lion energy as in the manufacturer or are you using battleborn? How many batteries do you have in the system?

Next can you be more specific around what you changed in the cc GX? I’m not sure I’m following. Here are the screens to change the voltage source.... IE what device do you trust to give you correct voltage and current readings for the multi.....

AC1 is an odd display on the multi control. Should normally show your current limit which you dial in using the dial.... but then again I am on my original multi firmware of 424, not the newer 430....

[wulfraat]

Ok... from the multi control manual...


https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...L-FR-DE-ES.pdf

If you are showing AC1 that means the digital control does not overrule the multi in establishing current limit before hybrid assist kicks in. IE current limit is hard coded to some value currently in the multi and that is what is being used.

Assuming you are seeing AC1 for the first time, this would indicate that something changed on the multi- IE. it is possible you have lost your system settings somehow, by firmware upgrade or otherwise, which can cause many problems.

You need to verify all settings on the multi with VE configure, or re-upload your original configuration file (hopefully you have this saved from the original setup) - it is not typical that you would have a multi control panel in your system without the “overrule multi” box checked in the multi configuration.

[waninae39]

tnx

@wulfraat, the seting on mine was AUTO, i set it to to the BMV712, but nothing changed

sat i will hook up the pc to the system a see what the settings

i see this in the DMC GX manual
i wiil look at the PowerAssist setting also.

see my drawing, it has ONE BB lion battery. next year if the border opens up and travel is on again, i will head to the BB factory and add a few more BB batteries

TNX all for the help.
i will post the results

[wulfraat]

Set to multiplus, not bmv.

On another note - with only one battery, that has limited discharge current capabilities (1C) ... here is a theory:

1. Sudden inrush of current demand has the multi draw immediately from batts in hybrid / power assist mode vs, true shore power pass-through.

2. Single battery has limited discharge current capability (1C or less), thus voltage collapses

3. Voltage collapse triggers multi low voltage alarm / current disconnect on the multi before shore power can be bridged in to meet current needs

4. System shut down / recovery takes place to try and meet the current need. Eventually the relays are able to supply the current demand from 120v shore.


If you are going to slam the multi with 900w instant load / demand you need to have a battery bank that can support that demand under instant load in hybrid / inverter mode. A single battery with 1C or less discharge capabilities may not meet this need despite claims of higher surge capabilities.

To test this theory you need to force the multi to draw exclusively from shore power for 120v loads. To do this flip the switch on your multi control to “charge only” and then turn on your load. “Charge only” disables power assist and inverter functions and puts the unit into true 120v passthrough operation.

[daleyocum]

see my drawing, it has ONE BB lion battery. next year if the border opens up and travel is on again, i will head to the BB factory and add a few more BB batteries

The folks at Battleborn may have an opinion on this. I know it’s optimal to have the batteries pretty closely matched since they are all in parallel. Otherwise the new batteries end up doing more of the work and may even discharge into the older one at rest. Ask them. You may find you want to sell your used one and buy new matched ones.

You have a very nice power system that would certainly benefit from the extra current capacity of more than one battery.

Also, the Battleborn batteries have a lot of battery protection built in. Have you found any utility to having the Victron Battery Protect in your system? I don’t have one on mine. I was told that’s mainly for folks using the Victron batteries.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by daleyocum;

Also, the Battleborn batteries have a lot of battery protection built in. Have you found any utility to having the Victron Battery Protect in your system? I don’t have one on mine. I was told that’s mainly for folks using the Victron batteries.

Victron battery protect is just a MOSFET switch used connect and disconnect loads when told to do so via a 12v control signal.

In a victron system with Victron batteries it is controlled by the external Victron BMS to disconnect charging if temperature is low and disconnect house loads if voltage is low (basically).

You are correct in that this is not necessary for a battleborn because the BB has these functions built in to its internal BMS. There are +/- to both system designs.

Also - note that the multi inherently has a load disconnect switch built in to disconnect loads to / from the battery (regardless of manufacturer) - which is happening here when a low voltage alarm is generated.

[waninae39]

TNX all for the help

i was able to get the PC connected today.
i checked all the settings
i reset them as you requested. I pushed them to the device.

the display now shows the current and the knob is effective.

When i turn on the external electric heater 1200W, the system works as expected.
when i turn on the 900W vacuum, the condition still occurs.

i will contact the folks at BB to see if there is some in rush current issue on my BB lion battery

[wulfraat]

Switch your multi control to “charge only” and in the ccgx set the Battery monitor setting to multi (not bmv)

try again if it works - this will isolate the issue to either battery or bmv at this point.

[waninae39]

@wulfraat

i did that so that the surge current would not trip the alarm. it not just passthru for AC loads

i also switched it to multi last night as i was too tired to use the PC last night to check/fix the multi config.
i save the config today , just incase another FW update changes things );

cheers

[waninae39]

victron support says that all mutiplus updates reset config to factory setting after an update.

they recommend i update to V 473 as the latest stable version

[lsbrodsky]

Just proved my point! Thanks
Larry