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Old 05-03-2007, 11:14 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
...This is why MOST major MoHo OEMs have switched over to multiples of 6VDC golf cart batteries in their higher-end units....
no offense lew,

but WHY the big mohos use what they use is misleading...

space
access
weight

for batteries is different in mega mohos..

also big inverters are less common on our trailers...

generally 6 v battery systems will weight more and take more space than comparable 12v battery systems

it seems that all attempts to increase amp hours available have issues to consider.

IF space, weight, wiring and access/lifting aren't issues and 4 or more batteries are desireable, 6v banks become reasonable...

but for a 1 battery or 2 battery system or for tight locations and ease of lifting 12v still seems a better choice...

and while 12v agm batteries are more expensive per unit they might be less costly over time.

controlling for all parameters is the tricky part.

mass/space/cost/reliablity/service/availability/wiring/and so on PER amp/hour of juice...

the needs for a light weight trailer with solar or shore or genset recharging are a matter of compromises...

there is lots of mystery and magic and enthusiasm associated with switching to 6v cells in series....

it's fun to read about it...

cheers
2air'

lots of good battery info to be read...

here is a couple sites i've enjoyed...

Car and Deep Cycle Battery Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Interconnecting Batteries - Caravan and Motorhome Books

Ample Power Web Site &nbsp &nbsp Home of the fast full charge!

and it's no surprise the s/n a/s site has great stuff!

Parallel or Serial for your Battery Bank?

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:40 PM   #62
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It has been enjoyable reading the discussion on 12v vs 6v batteries. As I found when trying to decide which to choose, opinions definitely vary greatly on this subject. I will just submit what led me to go with 2 x 6 volts over 12 volt batteries.

In my case, the goal is to set up the trailer for long term boondocking (with a generator and eventually, solar). Wanted to replace the standard single battery with a sufficient battery bank for my need. I am pretty frugal on power consumption; at the same time I wanted something that would give me the longest battery life within my weight/space/budget constraints. Ideally, I would have like to set up a 4 battery bank which would have given me significant battery life but the cost, weight and hassle of installing sealed battery box(es) inside the coach ruled that out. The most I could reasonably get away with on the trailer tongue is a dual battery setup.

Now, I am no battery expert but I did alot of research on this. From reading articles such as The12VoltSideofLife and talking to battery manufacturers and retailers, I concluded 2 x 6 volts would give me the longest life within my budget. As a matter of fact, the battery manufacturers and retailers I talked to all recommended 6 volt over 12 volt for a 2 battery setup using lead acid batteries. AGMs I understand are superior in many ways to lead acid batteries but for me they were just a little out of budget right now. As I didn't really looking into them I don't know if the same rules as far as 6v vs 12v apply the same to AGMs but i believe they do.

Again, I am definitely no expert. Just sharing the information that led me to my decision. At the same time, for someone who may only boondock occasionally, it doesn't really matter much which battery you choose.

BTW - Just ordered the WFCO 55 amp 3-stage conversion for my Parallax 7300 and Trimetric Battery Monitor from Randy at bestconverter.com. Thanks Randy for all your help!
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:51 PM   #63
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2 air,

No offense taken, but there has been a definite shift from the MoHos of 6-10 years ago and today's. The shift has been from 2 12VDC house batteries to 4 or 6-6VDC batteries. I have asked just about every OEM's tech gurus why this change went into effect and they ALL told me that they went with golf cart batteries because of their better durability and re-charging characteristics.

Considering that I have not replaced a single 12 VDC battery for a customer, but have done a bunch of 6VDC upgrades for them, the word MUST be out on the MoHo forums as well.

Sure, you can put huge battery banks into a MoHo and not worry about the weight, but IMHO, the weight DIFFERENCE between what the factory gave us and the slight weight increase for the golf cart batteries is far outweighed by their multiple benefits.
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Old 05-25-2007, 06:13 PM   #64
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I notice that I said in post #3 on 4/21 that I was having a battery box made to fit my 2 6V golfcart batteries. Well, that didn't happen. I gave the guy a week between calls to see what was up and each time he said, "It'll be ready tomorrow." After 3 weeks of "tomorrow" (How patient should a man be for goodness sake?) I told them I was coming down for my plans and templates and we'll call it good. I get there and they can't find a thing. I let them look around and squirm for about 10 minutes until I say forget it. I called around to a few other shops and I didn't feel too good about their understanding of what I wanted and I didn't have the energy to work up plans and such again so I just bought a box like JK3500 did and had pretty much the same setup done. And you know what? I'm really glad the machine shop screwed up and didn't do what I wanted. I feel really happy with the setup I wound up with. A heck of a lot cheaper too. About $75 for the box, $150 for the tray and holddown and $15 for extending the battery cables which I handled myself.
And here it is.
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:21 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
I notice that I said in post #3 on 4/21 that I was having a battery box made to fit my 2 6V golfcart batteries. Well, that didn't happen. I gave the guy a week between calls to see what was up and each time he said, "It'll be ready tomorrow." After 3 weeks of "tomorrow" (How patient should a man be for goodness sake?) I told them I was coming down for my plans and templates and we'll call it good. I get there and they can't find a thing. I let them look around and squirm for about 10 minutes until I say forget it. I called around to a few other shops and I didn't feel too good about their understanding of what I wanted and I didn't have the energy to work up plans and such again so I just bought a box like JK3500 did and had pretty much the same setup done. And you know what? I'm really glad the machine shop screwed up and didn't do what I wanted. I feel really happy with the setup I wound up with. A heck of a lot cheaper too. About $75 for the box, $150 for the tray and holddown and $15 for extending the battery cables which I handled myself.
And here it is.
Looks great turtle! Sometimes the simple solutions are the best. jk
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:55 PM   #66
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JK3500 and Turtle, nice job on the new battery installations. Much like Southwest Coaches in Irvine did for our 22' but they just used two individual boat type battery boxes. Both of your looks better.

One thing I would suggest is to check and see if the poly boxes you used is UZ resistant. If not consider rough sanding, priming and painting the boxes a black to match the A frame or an aluminum to match the trailer. Otherwise they may get a chalky coating or crack as they deteriorate with age.

Again, nice job.
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Old 05-27-2007, 02:05 PM   #67
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Good call on the UV protection advise. I'll be storing the box in my garage with the batteries but painting them is still a good idea. Thanks Don.

Jamie
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:02 PM   #68
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Since the thread is active again I thought I'd update everyone on my battery upgrade. I ended up going the cheap route this time, and buying 3 new 29 series 12v batteries which gives me 375 ah. Unless we use the furnace we can go several days without drawing them down more then 25%. I also bought the larger vented battery boxes that Markdoane suggested, and ran the upper exhaust out above the battery existing battery box. Added the parralex 55 amp temp control charger, and a new fuse panel. So far I'm happy with the changes. I may spend the extra money on agms next time.
I appreciate all the input on this.
Charlie
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:44 AM   #69
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Do I need a vented box for an AGM?

Last week I visited the Ontario distributor for Lifeline Batteries.

Mobile Power Solutions, at locations in Toronto and Montréal, install AC/DC power systems in police command centers, ambulances, fire trucks, utility vehicles and the like.

The manager there swears that I don’t need a vented container for a Lifeline AGM. He’ll take my money for one but says I don’t need it.

He claims they’ve installed Lifelines SIDEWAYS under the seats in fire trucks without problems of any kind.

His professional advice runs counter to information on the Forum. What do people on this thread think?


Sergei
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:16 PM   #70
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6 volt vs 12 batteries.

The wattage output from the same size 6 volt and 12 batteries are the same.

Using 2 six volt batteries in series, is going backwards.

Why?

When one gets weak, your done.

With 12 volts batteries in parallel, when one gets weak, you simply disconnect the weak one and continue on.

There is no electrical advantage of using two 6 volt batteries in series as opposed to two 12 volt batteries in parallel.

Ohms Law, says so.

But the huge disadvantage to using batteries in series is just like the old Christmas series light strings. When one bulb went south, it was done. With parallel bulbs, when one bulb went south, you still had all the rest to enjoy.

Andy
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:27 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe
Last week I visited the Ontario distributor for Lifeline Batteries.

Mobile Power Solutions, at locations in Toronto and Montréal, install AC/DC power systems in police command centers, ambulances, fire trucks, utility vehicles and the like.

The manager there swears that I don’t need a vented container for a Lifeline AGM. He’ll take my money for one but says I don’t need it.

He claims they’ve installed Lifelines SIDEWAYS under the seats in fire trucks without problems of any kind.

His professional advice runs counter to information on the Forum. What do people on this thread think?


Sergei
I called Lifeline last week, since my 2 Group 27 Interstate battereies show signs of getting weak.
Their customer service tech said that the batteries do not need a vented box, such as lead-acid batteries should have. He also said that they can be mounted in just about any position, without a problem.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:26 PM   #72
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I like the advice Randy gave in post #19.

The NEC requires that RV batteries be outside, or in a compartment vented to the outside. Until that changes I doubt you will see AGM batteries mounted inside without a vented box.

It's your trailer so do what you want. At least put a sticker on it so the next owner doesn't replace your AGM battery with regular deep cycle battery and have an unfortunate accident.
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Old 06-11-2007, 05:20 PM   #73
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I just got off the phone with Andrew at Lifeline and I think there is STILL some confusion. They do not need a vented box and under normal conditions will never gas. This is a true statement until "living quarters" is introduced because the NEC says what it says, right or wrong. Some other human occupant compartment, such as an airplane or automobile, or boat, etc might be different but I think of living space as where you also sleep and that may or may not be the intent of the code.
If they should accidentally over charge, they will equalize pressure or "burp" the same gas as a LA battery however the amount is less than half of the mil-spec minimum hazard level according to Lifeline. What does that have to do with an RV? maybe nothing but Lifelines are Concords and made to mil-specs as they are their number one customer.
Without a doubt, they can be mounted as needed but the codes have not been changed to my knowledge as far as batteries in the living compartment.
I'd like to be wrong and market them as such but just can't.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:27 PM   #74
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Just to update the thread, the box shown earlier is a Dyno box. I had one on my SOB and I am now installing a 2/6V on the Safari.

Dyno Product 3

I purchased mine from All Battery Sales and Service. Battery Boxes ~ All Battery Sales and Service

Best Converter sells some nice boxes too. In particular Randy sells some really sweet looking aluminum boxes. They were just a bit tighter than I wanted to be on my installation.

As a further note, I have had no problems with the Dyno box on my SOB holding up outside directly in the sun year round after several years.
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:13 AM   #75
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So do I need a box for AGM?

I have read all six pages of this old thread, and am almost set on 2 6v lifeline batteries for my trailer, and do not plan on venting them to the outside.

i wanted to see if anyone has since out these sealed batteries in their "living quarters and lived to tell about it??
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:23 AM   #76
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With two 6 volt batteries if one goes bad you have no power to run stuff. With two 12 volt batteries you can still run stuff if one goes bad.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:58 AM   #77
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Andrew, I have lived to tell about it.

These are the pair of Odyssey Extreme Power AGM marine batteries I had installed just before I began my recent 165 day tour of your part of America.

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They are under the sofa/bed, midship, unvented.

Before I bought the AGM's I had a single, everyday Interstate battery in that position, unvented. I lived in the trailer for three summers while completing the project and suffered no ill effects.

But that may have been because the trailer wasn't going anywhere; the battery was probably always in a full state of charge.

About the AGM's being un-vented, I was guided by the fact that the professionals that sold and serviced these batteries knew how they were being used, sold boxes as well and didn't think I needed them.

Sergei
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:10 AM   #78
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Alive!

Great Sergei, just what I was looking for. Dang, I really should have come to see you in Chattanooga. That setup looks great. Glad you have lived to tell about it!

I will hopefully go with AGM's but the cost may be prohibitive in my current restore...
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:41 PM   #79
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With two 6 volt batteries if one goes bad you have no power to run stuff. With two 12 volt batteries you can still run stuff if one goes bad.
While a good point, I always revert back my experience. With 6 volt, you have half the chance of a failure because there are half the cells to go bad. Just odds.
Also, they are specifically designed for multiple discharges so a hundred million golf carts can't be wrong (thicker lead plates, etc)
If you lose one, its not the end of the world because they don't just quit without warning like a motor. You will know when any battery is nearing the end of its usefully life if you have been paying attention. I've never met anybody stranded because they had 6 volt batteires.
I'm a 6 volt fan because they work well for me personally and we NEVER have warranty issues with them but I also use 12 volt in my small Lance slide in because that is all that will fit.
"Size does matter" when it comes to Airstreams notorious small battery compartments. Many don't have any option but 12 volt.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:58 PM   #80
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Randy

I have installed 2 6v golf cart batteries in the rear compartment of my 66 TW and am planning on installing two more for a total of 4. Is the gas that needs to be vented heavier or lighter than air? If it is heavier, than I think I am fine, but if it is lighter than I will probably need to add some ventilation. If so, then how much vent area is needed?

Dan
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