Thinking about going Lithium...

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

If you are switching to lithium, the ONLY other change absolutely required is to install a small dc/dc converter that will provide the proper charging voltage and can use the existing TV wiring- this is the one I would install:

DanAttachment 385418

I installed that exact DC-DC converter for my Lithium bank (5 Battleborn) and found it pretty useless when used with my 2019 F150. The stock seven pin plug should really just be thought of a a trickle charger on F150s, even drawing 10 amps from it caused it to sag in my case. I just disconnected it and my batteries are just charged from our solar panels as we drive (500w.). Your TV may be different.

If you really want to charge from your tow vehicle you may need to run new heavy wires from the alternator and install a separate Anderson connector from the TV to the trailer. It may also need a new alternator. Long Long Honeymoon just did a youtube video on this.

Personally I wouldn’t install thousands of dollars of Lithium without updating the converter/charger for a couple a hundred.

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

I installed that exact DC-DC converter for my Lithium bank (5 Battleborn) and found it pretty useless when used with my 2019 F150. The stock seven pin plug should really just be thought of a a trickle charger on F150s, even drawing 10 amps from it caused it to sag in my case. I just disconnected it and my batteries are just charged from our solar panels as we drive (500w.). Your TV may be different.



If you really want to charge from your tow vehicle you may need to run new heavy wires from the alternator and install a separate Anderson connector from the TV to the trailer. It may also need a new alternator. Long Long Honeymoon just did a youtube video on this.



Personally I wouldn’t install thousands of dollars of Lithium without updating the converter/charger for a couple a hundred.

I was talking about the bare minimum needed to accommodate the installation of lithium batteries. I agree that it would make sense to also install a new converter/charger.

I installed a new Progressive Dynamics 45 amp converter for my 3 BB lithium batteries. I also have 400 watts of solar available to charge the batteries while driving.

I was going to install a 40 dc/dc charger to provide 500 watts of charging while driving, but I didn’t like the idea of installing such a long run of #4 or #6 wire since my batteries are about 40 ft from my TV battery. As an alternative I installed a 1,000 watt Zamp inverter (CarGenerator) in my TV and use #16 wire to power the 45 amp converter in the Airstream. It provides about 500 amps charging while driving. It also allows me to leave the 1,000 watt generator that used to ride in the truck bed at home.

Dan

[rollieboy]

May I ask on here what would be my choice of Lithium batteries I could buy to replace my Interstates without all the changes mentioned. I don't boon dock,have solar,and would like to keep my inverter if possible. Pretty boring but I like it simple.
Thanks

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by rollieboy

May I ask on here what would be my choice of Lithium batteries I could buy to replace my Interstates without all the changes mentioned. I don't boon dock,have solar,and would like to keep my inverter if possible. Pretty boring but I like it simple.

Thanks

Why spend the money just put in AGMs.

If you don’t camp off grid, lMHO lithium’s are a waste of money.

[kscherzi]

I'm not that interested in boondocking either, but do camp at forest service and state park campgrounds, most which don't have hookups. I think this might be more common west of the Mississippi.

[Prettygood]

Originally Posted by rollieboy

May I ask on here what would be my choice of Lithium batteries I could buy to replace my Interstates without all the changes mentioned. I don't boon dock,have solar,and would like to keep my inverter if possible. Pretty boring but I like it simple.

Thanks

Assuming a solar controller with a Lithium setting (~14.4v), all you need is a battery with a good battery management system built in. I chose Battle Born since the quality of components and BMS is top notch. They just released a version with built in heating so ensure you can take a charge when below freezing.

Keep in mind you have access to all/nearly all of the listed amp hours in a lithium battery as opposed to 50% in AGM or flooded lead acid.

[rollieboy]

I apologize for my initial post earlier today. I don't boon dock and DON"T have solar. Sorry for the mistake. Even though I could just replace the AGM batteries I thought the Lithium might not be a bad idea. I know its a little extra money but the kid's won't notice it in the will.

[JonDNC]

If you camp where you need extra battery capacity then lithium will do that in the same space, at a minimum you need to upgrade the converter to one that had a lithium charge profile.

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by JonDNC

If you camp where you need extra battery capacity then lithium will do that in the same space, at a minimum you need to upgrade the converter to one that had a lithium charge profile.

+1. I would so sum it you should install a Batter Management System like a Victron BMV-712 otherwise you won’t really know how much charge you have. Voltage isn’t nearly as useful a measurement since Lithium’s voltage will be more or less constant until it nosedives.

Without an external BMS I would worry about the batteries getting over discharged. A general rule of thumb is to not discharge Lithium past 20% remaining charge. Some people will say you can go down to 10%. Going further risks damaging your very expensive batteries.

[Flygirl123]

We just upgraded to lithium batteries in our 2016 Land Yacht. Had them installed under our bed. Looking forward to 2021 camping!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

In our case the BB 12V batteries fitted under the sofa *and* fitted in the battery box. (We run with 4 of them). Battery boxes seem to come in a lot of sizes. Best to measure what you actually have.

Your "charge wire" through the 7pin probably should not be counted on for much over 15A at 10V (yes there's a bit of drop). That's 150W. A DC/DC putting out 14.4V at 90% efficiency would be in the 8A range. Anything over that is simply going to drop out.

8A will run the various bits and pieces that contribute to the typical 1 to 2A "running load" on your batteries. The result is that you aren't pulling into the campground with batteries in worse shape than when you pulled out in the morning.

8A into a 100AH battery will charge it fully in 100/8 = 12.5 hours. That's with a lithium and not with a lead acid. Charge characteristics on lead acid are a bit different.

Solar will also charge your batteries. It will do it when the sun is out. Depending on local conditions it may work better or worse here or there and on this or that day. Solar costs a whole lot more than an 8A DC/DC converter . Yes, solar is a good idea.

Bob

[starpicker]

Ditto on the AS Dealer. AS Power *. Same components but included going to 4 solars on top of AS Classic 33ft instead of 2. They spent a lot of time with JC on phone to get it right.

[Moodywelman]

I have two Battle Born @200 amps each and I’m very happy with them. With 300 watts of solar panels i am only limited by holding tanks. I also have a 2000 watt inverter/charger so basically it’s like being connected to shore power all the time.

[Monrovia]

My two BB lithium batteries are installed in a storage area underneath the drive side bed of my 2017 Flying Cloud 25 front bedroom "twin". I also have a battery monitoring system in that location. Warm and a good location.
Gene

[tjdonahoe]

We get 5-6 years from the interstates.... they usually last 3 -4 days if we don’t use the generator..

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by rollieboy

May I ask on here what would be my choice of Lithium batteries I could buy to replace my Interstates without all the changes mentioned. I don't boon dock,have solar,and would like to keep my inverter if possible. Pretty boring but I like it simple.
Thanks

Couple comments: 1) there is another thread currently with additional info you may find useful.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ml#post2443966

2) If you have not replaced your stock converter single stage converter with a newer "multi-stage converter", you should consider doing so in any case. The stock converter's are a big cause of batteries going bad in years prior to 2018 when AS upgraded to a 3 stage model. Still, a 4 stage converter with ability to adapt to LI is recommended over the AS 3 stage models.

IMHO As far as Li upgrade goes, really depends on how you intend to use your AS...if boondocking a lot, seems the advise on adding lots of solar is sound advise...but in heated parts of the country, you may still want/need a generator for your AC for extended periods, so really depends on your use model and locations.

I switched my stock AS converter to a Boondocker60 4 stage converter 3 years ago and also replaced my crap Interstate 12V's to 6V Trojans with great success. I think the Boondocker does a great job of charging, conditioning, and tending my batteries. I also use a portable GoPower solar suitcase when I have sun to augment charging. I keep a propane powered generator back up; where we camp, we many times don't have direct sun all the time.

I am still trying to understand overall most economical approach. I did just get the Honda 2200 propane powered generator last week to replace my Champion dual fuel. I just don't see the Li $$ investment, new monitors, new battery location inside, adding additional solar for $3-4K, as a better solution than what I have. It's kind of like the wifi debate...just when you think your ok, someone else here (smarter then me) posts something new/better..

[drbrick]

Hello PrettyGood,

I notice your Battleborn instal and have a small suggestion - the batteries are not strapped down. I notice you have fixed them so they don't slide around however, if you should hit a bump or something they will possible jump the rails - I would strongly suggest you add a strap to ensure they don't move - just saying..

[Bigventure]

I installed 2 Renolgy 170AH lithium batteries in my 2016 Classic battery box. They fit without a problem. Who cares if they get cold? They have a BMS to protect themselves. I’m not using them when it’s freezing or colder.

I think theft of your batteries is overrated. Who even knows they are in there? Or what they are? I guess if I stored my trailer in a storage facility, I would lock them up.

As far as converter upgrades. Who care that the batteries don’t charge 100%. How much difference dose it make? My batteries get charged to 97%. Does 3% less really matter? I had read that keeping lithium’s at 100% charge is bad for them too.

FYI I do have 400 watts solar on the factory prewire and they do get topped off to 100% when i turn it on.

I personally know of an Airstreamer that changed his converter and now his inverter wont work. It will not invert over 14.2 volts. Now he has to get a new inverter. Go figure.

[Jerrylax]

We have a 2017 30 classic...what did you do (if you did it) to up grade to lithium? How is it doing for you?

[Bill M.]

I am still thinking about the lithium switch. Cheapest for me is to just plug in two new lead acid batteries. And buy a portable CPAP battery for about $400 for when I run the trailer too low. I also already have the generator and a good converter and know about what it will do for my usage. But...I was thinking about making it "nicer". The trailer is pretty old and I expect lithiums might lower the resale rather than help it. One of the attractions of the lithiums is the charging curve. I think it would make keeping them charged with the generator easier. But a lot of money for me since I do not boondock all that much. Going AGM is also an option. If I really thought they would last longer with my usage. If I could just slide them in and get 3 good years from them I might go that way. The trailer will be sitting in the driveway until mid April waiting for a decision. Who knows what is going to happen between now and then. Right now we are waiting on parts for the house furnace. Had a Sunday service call and they could not fix it with what they have on the service truck. A new heating and cooling system for the house might wipe out the lithium battery idea. So far this year it has been a transmission for the truck, a water heater for the house, a freezer, and now maybe a furnace. Our caravan for next fall (if it goes) has no nights without hookups.

Thanks for all the information from everybody who posted. I understand the choices better now.