Surge Protection

[nickmeloy]

I am interested in feedback from anyone that has installed one of the Progressive Industries surge protection units. Perhaps the EMS-HW30C?

I am giving thought to installing such a unit in our AS.

[Jammer]

I don't have one but they're just MOVs in a metal box.

They will provide a degree of protection from transients, for sensitive electronics. Since sensitive electronics generally already have their own MOVs, the additional surge protection only helps for those transients that are big enough to blow up the MOVs in your electronics but not big enough to blow up the somewhat larger MOVs in the Progressive Industries device.

It is a fairly narrow window that isn't hit very often, which is why I don't have a surge protector.

[Zigidachs]

The Airstream recommends a surge protector of some kind, however in reality probably only one in twenty use a surge guard. ( info from dealer)

I have learned that surge protectors can explode and generate shrapnel and start fires. ( some evidence online) Thus a "permanently" mounted surge protector could theoretically present a risk.

I recently purchased an inline " Surge Guard" for my unit.

In our fifth wheel (traded in for the AS) we plugged into a very respected and relatively new campsite. A power surge occurred and blew out our $1700 inverter!!!!

Surge Guard---don't leave home without one!!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Zigidachs

In our fifth wheel (traded in for the AS) we plugged into a very respected and relatively new campsite. A power surge occurred and blew out our $1700 inverter!!!!

Surge Guard---don't leave home without one!!

How do you know a surge protector would have helped?

[Zigidachs]

Great question!!! But I certainly am aware of what happened without it!

I don't think there is any device which will protect our units in all cases, but--some insurance is better than none.

Since that very costly event, I also have "rigged" a circuit testor to check the "pole" before plugging in. I found the info online and can include it if you are interested.

My insurance covered all but the deductible, which was the dealer responsibility who made the mistake in the first place. Again this all happened on a fiver.

Zigi

[2dabeach]

Originally Posted by nickmeloy

I am interested in feedback from anyone that has installed one of the Progressive Industries surge protection units. Perhaps the EMS-HW30C?

nickmeloy......I didn't think I wanted to spend the money ($260) to buy one until I spoke to two campers in a state campground we were staying at in Florida that both had major damage from a problem in the campground electric service that wiped out their refrigerator, TV and some other electrical appliances. The one camper was moved next to my site while they were getting replacement parts for his RV. I tried to pick up a device in Florida and they only had a less expensive device that only provided surge protection. As soon as we got home I ordered a Progressive Industries Electrical Managment System (EMS-PT30C) that provides protection for high voltage, low voltage, surge protection, reverse polarity protection, open neutral protection, open ground protection, A/C frequency protection, and accidental 220V protection. The unit will shut down the service to your RV if there is any problem with the service coming to the RV. It also displays the voltage, amps, line frequency and the error code of any problem it has detected. It's been working for 2-4 month periods of continuous camping and have not had any problems. I have noticed that when there is an interruption in service from the utility, the device has a delay built in that delays the unit from reconnecting to the campground service as soon a service is restored. The only issue is that you may have to lock it at the campground electric service connection so it does not find a new home.
__________________

[slpiotro]

on my last trip (last fall) i had my converter (or is that inverter) go out, I could not get my batteries charged from shore power. I was traveling the end of Oct. and the solar was very limited. My question, is the surge problem common enough to justify the costs (275 or so) for a good surge protector for the system? Do all of you use surge protectors? I suspect that, in spite of traveling most of the trip on solar, I did hit bad power during one stop and shortly after, I was no longer get charge to the batteries. I have a new converter installed by the dealer, and the five hundred bill is not wanted again. advice appreciated. I have had the unit for two years, love traveling in it and plan on leaving again this week (out of the Wisconsin snow to the south-lands) Thanks for any thoughts you might share.

[Jammer]

I believe that surge protectors are a poor value for the cost and weight, which is why I don't use one.

The MOV style ones in the $275 price range mainly protect against lightning hits but with most campground wiring being underground it is really rare to get a bad enough hit through the power lines for the MOVs to help. I've camped in lightning storms on a hill with shore power connected with no concern and no problems.

Converters fail for many reasons or no reason at all and surges are usually not the problem. Wrong voltage, maybe, due to an open neutral. But, a better way to solve that might be to get a dual-voltage converter so it doesn't matter. Xantrex makes a couple that will run on anything from 90-250 volts.

If the campground has an open neutral somewhere and it damages your trailer you can and should get them to pay for repairs, with the assistance of the courts if necessary. There's no reason for this to happen other than poor maintenance and sloppy wiring. I don't think the problem is bad enough to warrant the use of expensive and heavy autoformer-like devices which are the only thing that will really provide any protection.

[2airishuman]

i've seen no thread on the exact model gizmo in the op...

but many older threads are useful on the broader topic.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ard-57351.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...rmer-7248.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...city-9309.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ard-68261.html

cheers
2air'

[fr8tshaker]

Originally Posted by nickmeloy

I am interested in feedback from anyone that has installed one of the Progressive Industries surge protection units. Perhaps the EMS-HW30C?

I am giving thought to installing such a unit in our AS.

We have the Progressive Industries EMS for 50 Amp service. I can only relate our experiences.

We were at Lake Mozingo in MO a few times over the last few years. We had no issues when parked in the lower camping area but when parked in the upper area the EMS was constantly kicking the power off. It was so frequent that we just unplugged and ran off of our solar system. We have some friends and family that insist on the upper area ...until last fall anyway. They just would not accept that the AC units in there rigs were kicking on and off and not cooling effectively due to electrical issues at the campground. Neither has surge protection.The electrical system on our friends Nuway was so fried the unit was totaled by the insurance company. Our family members AC was burned out on her MH. Keep in mind that we were unaware that the wiring on the lower camping area had been done by professional electricians and the wiring in the upper camping area by the bath house had been done by city workers. We found this out after the fact.

So IMHO is the Progressive Unit effective and worth spending th $$ on? ??
The answer is a definite yes.

JC installed our unit behind the panel in the underbed storage area which made it easy to connect to the AS electrical system coming into our unit. The control unit is mounted outside the bedside closet/shelf above the nightstand opening for easy access. The connecting line from the unit to the control panel is hidden inside the closet.

We feel the money was well spent and the unit has performed very well.


Hope this is helpful to you,
'shaker

[rbg46]

Being a new AS owner, the subject of inline surge protection is new...thus my visit to this several years old thread...

Seems the products fall into the $75-80 range or $250-300 range each with their features and benefits

Thoughts or suggestions from anyone?

Thanks

[dkottum]

Things haven't changed, some campgrounds have inadequate power. Especially during heavy air conditioning or heating weather. We've got a Progressive unit, I don't use it all the time, I check the voltage when we hook up and when we draw a load with a simple meter. If low I will plug in the protector.

[Bill M.]

I bought one of the Progressive units this summer. I camped for 10 years without one. I did not blow anything up. One thing the unit offers is a time delay on restarting the AC if the power trips and then comes back on quickly. I had a service call and repair for the AC in my house that way a few years ago. I can not see a down side to using the protection. Many things are nice but maybe not necessary. I also keep a little voltage meter plugged into an outlet just so I will know what is going on.

[TRIPPPIN]

I have that unit installed. It is wired in before the transfer switch so both front and rear connections and an external generator would be protected. I like the monitor panel which indicates the incoming power and amp usage and errors. It is there for me 100% of the time and can't be stolen. I have run into power source problems before, so for me it is cheap insurance.

[RVDreamer]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I believe that surge protectors are a poor value for the cost and weight, which is why I don't use one.

The MOV style ones in the $275 price range mainly protect against lightning hits but with most campground wiring being underground it is really rare to get a bad enough hit through the power lines for the MOVs to help. I've camped in lightning storms on a hill with shore power connected with no concern and no problems.

Converters fail for many reasons or no reason at all and surges are usually not the problem. Wrong voltage, maybe, due to an open neutral. But, a better way to solve that might be to get a dual-voltage converter so it doesn't matter. Xantrex makes a couple that will run on anything from 90-250 volts.

If the campground has an open neutral somewhere and it damages your trailer you can and should get them to pay for repairs, with the assistance of the courts if necessary. There's no reason for this to happen other than poor maintenance and sloppy wiring. I don't think the problem is bad enough to warrant the use of expensive and heavy autoformer-like devices which are the only thing that will really provide any protection.

I disagree completely.

Our PI power management device has saved our trailer several times already. It has also alerted us twice to a potentially deadly situations at two different campgrounds. Reverse polarity, low voltage situations, power surges, open ground, can all cause problems. You don't need a lightning strike to damage internal electronic components and electric motors.

Low voltage can be catastrophic for fridges and A/C. There recently was a 5 year old boy killed due to an open ground situation on an Airstream trailer. His life could have been saved if the operator of the trailer had been using one of these systems and detected the situation before the accident.

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by RVDreamer

I disagree completely.

Our PI power management device has saved our trailer several times already. It has also alerted us twice to a potentially deadly situations at two different campgrounds. Reverse polarity, low voltage situations, power surges, open ground, can all cause problems. You don't need a lightning strike to damage internal electronic components and electric motors.

Low voltage can be catastrophic for fridges and A/C. There recently was a 5 year old boy killed due to an open ground situation on an Airstream trailer. His life could have been saved if the operator of the trailer had been using one of these systems and detected the situation before the accident.

I do to, based on the calls we receive every day. One guy last week had $7K in damages but it wasn't an Airstream. Converter is always going to get destroyed, every single time because its first in line. Then it just depends after that but 2nd most common is microwave. Then air conditioners, fridge and anything else on AC circuits. It can add up fast. Not a day goes by when we don't get surge calls. Older campgrounds, state parks and especially generators are the 3 major scenarios I would be especially concerned. Not so often at home on the side of the house unless you get a lightning strike but it can happen anywhere and does. Progressive Industries have lifetime warranty and it's pretty cheap insurance.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by RVDreamer

I disagree completely.

Our PI power management device has saved our trailer several times already.

How do you know? Just because it beeps doesn't mean that the situation would have led to damage.

It has also alerted us twice to a potentially deadly situations at two different campgrounds. Reverse polarity, low voltage situations, power surges, open ground, can all cause problems. You don't need a lightning strike to damage internal electronic components and electric motors.

Those situations aren't deadly, and you don't need a surge protector to identify them.

Low voltage can be catastrophic for fridges and A/C.

There is no airstream fridge that can be damaged by low voltage.

Whether low voltage is "catastrophic" for A/C is debatable. The compressor will run hotter when the voltage is low which will shorten its life. But many compressor failures get blamed on low voltage when the real problem is poor design or manufacturing. Voltage is a convenient scapegoat.

I've run my A/C for hours at 105 volts with no ill effects.

There recently was a 5 year old boy killed due to an open ground situation on an Airstream trailer. His life could have been saved if the operator of the trailer had been using one of these systems and detected the situation before the accident.

I'd like to hear the whole story. It takes more than just an open ground for that to happen. What else went wrong?

If you want to run a surge protector, fine, that's your choice. But these devices are being sold under three false pretenses: 1) that power surges that will damage your trailer are common, 2) a surge protector will prevent damage in these situations, and 3) there's no other way to protect yourself.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

Converter is always going to get destroyed, every single time because its first in line.

They're not first in line. They're weakest.

Maybe you should tell your suppliers to step up their game. All modern converters have some degree of power conditioning incorporated into them. Designing the converter to incorporate somewhat larger MOVs and a wider-range input circuit that will accept any voltage 85-250v is not difficult and adds very little cost.

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by Jammer

They're not first in line. They're weakest.

Maybe you should tell your suppliers to step up their game. All modern converters have some degree of power conditioning incorporated into them. Designing the converter to incorporate somewhat larger MOVs and a wider-range input circuit that will accept any voltage 85-250v is not difficult and adds very little cost.

Hi Jammer,
They actually are first and quite possibly the weakest. They really don't have much conditioning because it's not what OEM (or you) demand. They (take Airstream for example) want a power supply that does a job, and are willing to pay X$ for it. That is how it works in that industry. Hope you understand that.
So I should tell my suppliers to step up their game? I want to make sure that is your opinion of what I should do.
Most companies do listen to public outcry but it seems to me (as a messenger) you want to blame me for power surges and what they do to components that we don't build.
Can you provide a list of possible MOVs I can supply to Progressive Dynamics engineers (Tom Philpot is my go to guy there in engineering) and the others so we can make that happen? I'm on your side, remember that please.
You can PM me if it's more comfortable for you that way and I'd gladly suggest something.
Thanks for the input Jammer.

[dhroberts]

Originally Posted by nickmeloy

I am interested in feedback from anyone that has installed one of the Progressive Industries surge protection units. Perhaps the EMS-HW30C?

I am giving thought to installing such a unit in our AS.

I am another Progressive fan - I use the EMS-PT50C. Always use it when connected to shore power - no exceptions. Why take a chance on potential issues you can't see?