Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-25-2019, 06:02 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' Safari SS SE
Poulsbo , WA
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 40
Solar + Batteries + Inverter + Converter

Hi, I'm renovating the power system for boondocking. The attached drawing shows the depth of my thinking. My questions are around tying in an inverter (which I have not purchased; all other items on drawing are purchased).

The inverters I'm looking at have two outlets built in and a way to hook in some Romex (10/2 for example). I want to hook that into the existing distribution panel but have some questions:

1. instructions suggest a fuse between battery and solar controller. Do I also need to insert a fuse(s) between inverter and battery?

2. Should I wire the inverter output directly to the same terminals shore power terminates in the distribution panel? Will this allow all downstream 110 components to work from inverter?

3. What can I add so the inverter knows to auto switch itself off when shore power is detected?

Thanks for any thoughts -- nothing (that wasn't already there) is screwed down yet so feel free to suggest anything

EdClick image for larger version

Name:	20190225_161430.jpeg
Views:	186
Size:	47.1 KB
ID:	334419
wandered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 06:17 PM   #2
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' Safari SS SE
Poulsbo , WA
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 40
Ignore the colors... They didn't stay consistent.
wandered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 07:22 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
DaveP's Avatar

 
2004 28' Classic
Monument , Colorado
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,172
I bought (and would buy again) a hybrid inverter/charger form Victron or Magnum (I did Magnum) then you do not have to worry about it.

"2. Should I wire the inverter output directly to the same terminals shore power terminates in the distribution panel? Will this allow all downstream 110 components to work from inverter?

3. What can I add so the inverter knows to auto switch itself off when shore power is detected? "
__________________
DaveP
2004 Airstream Classic 28 "Willard"
2014 Ford F150 FX4 Ecoboost
DaveP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:56 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
daleyocum's Avatar
 
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
I bought (and would buy again) a hybrid inverter/charger form Victron or Magnum (I did Magnum) then you do not have to worry about it.

"2. Should I wire the inverter output directly to the same terminals shore power terminates in the distribution panel? Will this allow all downstream 110 components to work from inverter?

3. What can I add so the inverter knows to auto switch itself off when shore power is detected? "
You’ll find many folks on this forum will agree with this advice. I’ve had the Magnum hybrid inverter in the past and have the Victron Multiplus now. Both are great and makes it possible to easily make every outlet in your trailer hot while on battery, generator, or shore power. The Victron is cheaper than Magnum and is part of a whole ecosystem should you decide to add solar.
daleyocum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 07:35 AM   #5
3 Rivet Member
 
1971 27' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 235
If you dont want to go the inverter/charger route, you just add a transfer switch such as this

https://www.amazon.com/PowerMax-PMTS...71924699&psc=1
Shermy1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 10:37 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
daleyocum's Avatar
 
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,037
Also, on your diagram you have a series connected pair of 6v batteries in parallel with a couple of 12v batteries. Not a good idea. When you put 12v batteries in parallel you want them all to be the same age and model and thus have the same charging profile. Otherwise one battery will end up discharging trying to “charge” another. Also your solar charge controller, at least an efficient one like a Victron MPPT controller, won’t know what’s going on and won’t be able to step through its stages accurately.

Your life will be much simpler with an all-Victron system and matched batteries. There are lots of resources on this forum.
daleyocum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 10:41 AM   #7
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' Safari SS SE
Poulsbo , WA
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 40
Appreciate that -- was completely wondering about my battery configuration... Ended up with the mismatch and was curious if I could use them together.

If I'm stuck with them, maybe I'll just put a manual switch in and keep the batteries separate.
wandered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 10:45 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
gklott's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 590
Images: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by wandered View Post
1. instructions suggest a fuse between battery and solar controller. Do I also need to insert a fuse(s) between inverter and battery?
Yes, required for both. Recommend using BlueSea Series 187 circuit breakers. See ANSI/RVIA Low Voltage standard 2018 ed. for details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandered View Post
2. Should I wire the inverter output directly to the same terminals shore power terminates in the distribution panel? Will this allow all downstream 110 components to work from inverter?
No. You must use a transfer switch, as you have separately derived power sources. Some inverters include an automatic transfer switch for this purpose. The are other good transfer switches for RV use. Recommend consulting the several sections of the National Electric Code that cover this. Ensure that the transfer switch is UL or ETL listed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandered View Post
3. What can I add so the inverter knows to auto switch itself off when shore power is detected?
Again, some inverters have this capability with the automatic transfer switch.

73/gus
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
gklott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 10:52 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
gklott's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 590
Images: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by daleyocum View Post
Also, on your diagram you have a series connected pair of 6v batteries in parallel with a couple of 12v batteries. Not a good idea.
Agree. This is not a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleyocum View Post
Your life will be much simpler with an all-Victron system and matched batteries. There are lots of resources on this forum.
Agree. Matching battery types is important unless your charger provides multiple outputs, each capable of providing a different charging profile, and where each battery bank supplies a separate DC load buss.

73/gus
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
gklott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 01:00 PM   #10
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
White Bear Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 43
You don't need a fuse anywhere until you need it. Fuses are to protect the wires. If a unit fails you most definitely want a fuse to blow. Don't cheap out on the fuses. Fuse everything. Fuses and holders are cheap. A fire caused by a burning wire is not so cheap.
lyleapgmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 01:04 PM   #11
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' Safari SS SE
Poulsbo , WA
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleapgmc View Post
You don't need a fuse anywhere until you need it. Fuses are to protect the wires. If a unit fails you most definitely want a fuse to blow. Don't cheap out on the fuses. Fuse everything. Fuses and holders are cheap. A fire caused by a burning wire is not so cheap.
Great advice! So obvious now that I'm reading and hearing it.
wandered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 01:44 PM   #12
Wolfwhistle
 
Fair_Enough's Avatar
 
Margaritaville , Banana Republic
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 700
W,
Attaching a simplified schematic of what I have to possibly give you ideas.
I had never seen this done, but I pulled out the 30A distribution panel and replaced with a 50A, so I could have an integrated sub panel in the main panel. I had the panel left over from a project I did a different way. I think you will notice the exact layout of the power center turned out a bit different, since I repurposed all I could.

I used a progressive auto transfer switch with the inverter controlling... ie, when the inverter is on the feed from shore power to the subpanel is disconnected... and the inverter supplies... turn off the inverter and it cuts shore back through automatically.

I also found a cool 300A fuse and terminal that fits directly onto the battery and added a battery cut off on the battery box.

I used Trimetric SC2030 and TM2030 equipment, which I know... its old school PWM, but highly programmable.

I took a chance with a $300 PSW inverter and it has worked perfectly. Actually surprising me. I had a Magnum ($1500) in the toyhauler and no doubt they are incredible. If I was going Magnum, I would use its built in charger (again, highly programmable) and not bother with the PD4655VL upgrade. I normally keep the converter turned off. I also have the remote that lets me force the converter into boost if I ever need to and have shore power or generator power.

Like was well covered, you "can't" mix battery types or even those with a born on date much different. They don't play well together.

Let me know if I can help.
Clint
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	simplified schematic.png
Views:	135
Size:	176.5 KB
ID:	334507   Click image for larger version

Name:	11.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	121.1 KB
ID:	334508  

Click image for larger version

Name:	12.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	203.3 KB
ID:	334509   Click image for larger version

Name:	pwr cntr labeling.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	89.2 KB
ID:	334510  

__________________
Is taking it all with you, really getting away from it all?
Fair_Enough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 03:57 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
gator.bigfoot's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
KW , Ontario
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleapgmc View Post
You don't need a fuse anywhere until you need it. Fuses are to protect the wires. If a unit fails you most definitely want a fuse to blow. Don't cheap out on the fuses. Fuse everything. Fuses and holders are cheap. A fire caused by a burning wire is not so cheap.
As long as the fuse is sized correctly to protect the wire. Otherwise it doesn't do a whole lot of good.
gator.bigfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 04:29 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
waninae39's Avatar

 
2017 22' Sport
NCR , Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,540
THIS IS OUR SCHEMATIC FOR AC AND dc

MOSTLY vICTRON DEVISE AS THEY ALL TALK TO EACH OTHER

PLUS victron supports free online monitoring

listen to the others about battery, wiring and fuses
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	AS22FB- power DC and AC-V7a.jpg
Views:	163
Size:	244.4 KB
ID:	334521   Click image for larger version

Name:	AS22FB- power AC-V5.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	149.0 KB
ID:	334522  

waninae39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 06:35 PM   #15
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' Safari SS SE
Poulsbo , WA
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 40
Wolfwhistle and waninae39 thank you for sharing your schematics. Very helpful and impressive.

What do the shunts do for you? Is it just a place to measure or do they restrict current above their rating for safety?
wandered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 08:49 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
TouringDan's Avatar
 
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg , Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,976
Want to follow along so I can learn and improve my setup.

Dan
TouringDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 09:20 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
waninae39's Avatar

 
2017 22' Sport
NCR , Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,540
shunts allow accurate measurements. they are VERY low resistance

std device in any electrical system when you need to know.
waninae39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 11:40 AM   #18
Wolfwhistle
 
Fair_Enough's Avatar
 
Margaritaville , Banana Republic
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 700
Yes, a shunt is a precision device at a exact resistance. The kelvin connections allow a precision meter to read the voltage drop that it converts to amps. A 100 amp model for loads (think inverter up 600 W) and 500 amp for larger DC loads. Even though the big one is 500 amps, you should not expect to put that high a current thru it continuously. It will heat up and give incorrect readings. I think 300A or so is okay. I have the data sheet for the one Trimetric uses but don’t remember the finer points. I would never be without a monitor whether trimetric or Victron. Notice in the schematic all negative loads flow thru it. If a negative is connected to the battery that current used is no measured.
Clint
__________________
Is taking it all with you, really getting away from it all?
Fair_Enough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 11:59 AM   #19
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Clearlake , California
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 77
I think the battery fuse Wolfwhistle used is the same one I like: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1
napabill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Changing out converter to an inverter/converter combo Aaron-Laura Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 10 10-09-2017 08:18 AM
prep for my solar future: Inverter charger/inverter-converter combo wonderlust87 Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 1 09-13-2017 10:50 AM
New solar, inverter and batteries JBBeaubeaux Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 1 07-14-2017 06:21 PM
Mixed batteries and surprised with converter/inverter outofcontrol Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 14 05-08-2014 09:04 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.