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Old 09-02-2020, 09:05 AM   #1
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2020 30' Classic
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Quick AGM to Battleborn Lithium swap

I have a 2020 Classic with factory installed 270 watt solar, 1000watt inverter/charger & two Lifeline 100Ah AGM batteries. Despite only having this coach for 4 months it appears the AGM's are shot.

I do not have time to relocate new lithium batteries to under the sofa prior to leaving on our next trip. Is it possible to simply swap out the two AGM's for two Battleborn batteries in the existing battery box? Does anything else need changed?

I know I need to reprogram the charge profile in the Victron MPPT / Solar Charger. What else is needed?

As a side note, we will be traveling to areas with temperatures which drop below freezing overnight, but not any where with sustained temperatures below zero. Both on and off grid / boondocking.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-02-2020, 04:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoose View Post
I have a 2020 Classic with factory installed 270 watt solar, 1000watt inverter/charger & two Lifeline 100Ah AGM batteries. Despite only having this coach for 4 months it appears the AGM's are shot.



I do not have time to relocate new lithium batteries to under the sofa prior to leaving on our next trip. Is it possible to simply swap out the two AGM's for two Battleborn batteries in the existing battery box? Does anything else need changed?



I know I need to reprogram the charge profile in the Victron MPPT / Solar Charger. What else is needed?



As a side note, we will be traveling to areas with temperatures which drop below freezing overnight, but not any where with sustained temperatures below zero. Both on and off grid / boondocking.



Thanks in advance.


Lifeline should replace the AGMs under warranty.
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Old 09-04-2020, 05:45 PM   #3
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AGM to Lithium Swap

If I can get Lifeline to honor a warranty claim, I am sure it will be pro-rated. I'll take free replacements, but I will not spend any money for AGMs.

What I am really looking for is information on what I am missing in my thinking about swapping out the AGM with Lithium batteries in the existing battery box. Short term until I can spend the time and put them under the front sofa in our Classic.
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Old 09-04-2020, 05:56 PM   #4
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It should work, but there are some things to consider:

The standard converter on your trailer won't charge the last 15% very effectively. Not such a big deal, but you lose some of your capacity that way. You can replace the converter with a Progressive Dymanics 9100AL series, either the 9145AL which will match your existing converter or the 9180AL which will charge faster but probably needs the wiring upgraded. Both are specific to lithium charging.

David
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Old 09-04-2020, 06:15 PM   #5
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Converter / Charger

Good point, I was just starting to dig into that part of the equation. Any idea of what Airstream installed in the 2020 Classics?
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Old 09-04-2020, 07:26 PM   #6
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I have a 2018 GT and I tried to put two BB batteries in the standard battery box and they do not fit without modifying the battery box. So I am just using one BB at this time.
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Old 09-05-2020, 04:20 AM   #7
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Have you tried looking at the new Renogy Smart Lithium 100ah. I am looking to do the same and found that it will drop right into my battery box since it is 11.4" long vs almost 13" for the Battleborn
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Old 09-05-2020, 04:27 AM   #8
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Here is a link to a review done by Will Prowse. From what I can tell from the research that I did, it has a slightly smaller length because they use pouch cells vs cylindrical cells.

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Old 09-05-2020, 06:35 AM   #9
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Same question as the OP but the following questions remain. Do the lithium batteries have a BMS that will automatically protect them from damage from charging in cold weather? Thinking about dropping a couple in the battery boxes above the floor with the outside doors in my 1988 trailer. I would need a new converter but that is not a big deal. I do not use an inverter, so is the original wiring heavy enough or do I need bigger wires for the charging function?
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Old 09-05-2020, 06:43 AM   #10
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I have a 19 Classic and 2 BBs fit in the battery box nicely. There are also Lion energy LiFePO batteries that are a bit smaller. Have only heard one person use them for space but they may be an alternative.

For sure, get an upgraded charger. Also, these batteries slurp current when drained (used while boondocking). AGMs don’t charge as quickly and don’t slurp current, they sort of sip it. If you get to a campsite with a set of batteries drawn to 50% and plug in, they will take all available current at once to try to charge. You might trip your charging circuit. A multi switch so you can regulate current to equal your loads plus the charging circuit amps will help a lot. So a new charger and a multi switch would be on my list.

Since you don’t have a multi switch right now, if your charging circuit trips, run MORE appliances if your charging circuit trips while charging drained batteries Turn on the AC. That will use up current that would otherwise go through the charging circuit and lower the amps for charging. Hopefully that won’t be an issue for you, but just in case, it is somewhat counterintuitive.
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:10 AM   #11
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AGM to Lithium Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans627 View Post
I have a 2018 GT and I tried to put two BB batteries in the standard battery box and they do not fit without modifying the battery box. So I am just using one BB at this time.
Which BB batteries did you use? They have a couple of different batteries with different dimensions. The one I am looking at is very close in size to the existing Lifeline batteries.
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M. View Post
Same question as the OP but the following questions remain. Do the lithium batteries have a BMS that will automatically protect them from damage from charging in cold weather? Thinking about dropping a couple in the battery boxes above the floor with the outside doors in my 1988 trailer. I would need a new converter but that is not a big deal. I do not use an inverter, so is the original wiring heavy enough or do I need bigger wires for the charging function?
From what I have read, BattleBorn batteries have a built-in BMS which will stop charging when the batteries are too cold. (<25 F) Then will allow it to resume when they warm up above that temp.

I can't answer your question about your wiring. What AWG do you have currently have and how long are your cables?
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsodf View Post
Have you tried looking at the new Renogy Smart Lithium 100ah. I am looking to do the same and found that it will drop right into my battery box since it is 11.4" long vs almost 13" for the Battleborn
The BB batteries I am considering are : 12.75 X 6.875 X 9 in. (L x W x H) which are very close in size to my existing Lifeline GP27 batteries, so I think they will fit.

I have not looked at Renogy, thanks I will take a look. Ultimately, I will be moving these inside the coach under the front sofa and adding at least 2 more batteries. So battery package size is critical.
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPeanut View Post
I have a 19 Classic and 2 BBs fit in the battery box nicely. There are also Lion energy LiFePO batteries that are a bit smaller. Have only heard one person use them for space but they may be an alternative.

For sure, get an upgraded charger. Also, these batteries slurp current when drained (used while boondocking). AGMs donít charge as quickly and donít slurp current, they sort of sip it. If you get to a campsite with a set of batteries drawn to 50% and plug in, they will take all available current at once to try to charge. You might trip your charging circuit. A multi switch so you can regulate current to equal your loads plus the charging circuit amps will help a lot. So a new charger and a multi switch would be on my list.

Since you donít have a multi switch right now, if your charging circuit trips, run MORE appliances if your charging circuit trips while charging drained batteries Turn on the AC. That will use up current that would otherwise go through the charging circuit and lower the amps for charging. Hopefully that wonít be an issue for you, but just in case, it is somewhat counterintuitive.
Do you have any suggestions for replacement charger. I don't want to spend much on it since I will be tossing it when I swap out to a Victron Multiplus Inverter / Charger.
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:33 AM   #15
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I see you have a 2020, my battery box on our 2014 must be smaller than the ones used on the new models. I currently have group 24 AGM. I too am thinking about getting 2 now and the moving them inside later and adding more. Click image for larger version

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Old 09-05-2020, 09:01 AM   #16
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Is it possible that your Lifelines are not shot, but that you are overestimating how many amp-hours you are expecting, and underestimating how much you actually use?

I would deeply analyze this before you invest in BBs that may not fix your problem.

Lifelines are extremely good batteries and should not be discarded without a fight.

Pat
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Old 09-05-2020, 09:39 AM   #17
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I would hold out for the victron multiplus. I wouldn't spend money on something to toss out. Nothing is cheap and worth what you pay.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoose View Post
The BB batteries I am considering are : 12.75 X 6.875 X 9 in. (L x W x H) which are very close in size to my existing Lifeline GP27 batteries, so I think they will fit.

I have not looked at Renogy, thanks I will take a look. Ultimately, I will be moving these inside the coach under the front sofa and adding at least 2 more batteries. So battery package size is critical.
Two of the standard 100 AH battiers, like this, https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...cycle-battery/, did not fit in my standard size battery box on my 2018 GT. They almost fit, very close, but it would have required removing the threaded rod for the hold down clamp and cutting/grinding the lip off of the box.

Perhaps the box size has been changed on the 2020 models but proceed with caution because, as you know, these batteries are expensive.

FWIW!
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmclemore View Post
Is it possible that your Lifelines are not shot, but that you are overestimating how many amp-hours you are expecting, and underestimating how much you actually use?

I would deeply analyze this before you invest in BBs that may not fix your problem.

Lifelines are extremely good batteries and should not be discarded without a fight.

Pat
Unfortunately I tend to believe they are. I can never get them to take a charge and hold a voltage above 12.65 volts. Quickly draw down to 12.3 with just running a few lights. No inverter, but CZone is the Pepwave Modem are on. I found the cable leading from the Victron solar charger to the battery was never crimped at the battery. Suspect batteries were drawn down to the point they were damage while on the dealers lot.
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:13 AM   #20
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Just for grins, how about trying to charge them with an automobile-style charger. Use the 2-amp rate and give it a day. Disconnect them from the rig.

Pat
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