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Old 11-21-2021, 01:38 PM   #1
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Progressive Lithium Install

Here’s the setup… I want to swap over to lithium on my 2014 AS 23D. Currently has AGM, Zamora Solar w three panels….. I don’t want to drop/pay for the whole lithium upgrade shebang all at one time…. I you were going to progressively upgrade (while still using the AS) what’s your first, second, third buy? Be specific as possible….

1. Batteries first?, Inverter first? Model $ and rough price?
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Old 11-21-2021, 03:45 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMNummi;
Here’s the setup… I want to swap over to lithium on my 2014 AS 23D. Currently has AGM, Zamora Solar w three panels….. I don’t want to drop/pay for the whole lithium upgrade shebang all at one time…. I you were going to progressively upgrade (while still using the AS) what’s your first, second, third buy? Be specific as possible….

1. Batteries first?, Inverter first? Model $ and rough price?
I would first drop in 2 battleborn 100ah batteries, new converter (required - recommend progressive dynamics PD9145ALV), Victron bmv712 smart monitor and start there. ~$2500 parts only no labor.

You need all of the above, this would be the first step.

You also need to confirm that your current solar controller can be programed for lithium. If not you will need a new controller - add $250 (Victron 100/30 Smart).
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
I would first drop in 2 battleborn 100ah batteries, new converter (required - recommend progressive dynamics PD9145ALV), Victron bmv712 smart monitor and start there. ~$2500 parts only no labor.

You need all of the above, this would be the first step.

You also need to confirm that your current solar controller can be programed for lithium. If not you will need a new controller - add $250 (Victron 100/30 Smart).
Thanks Wulfraat! So... proceeding down the rabbit hole... can I just plug and play the lithiums first? Existing Zamp solar charge controller does have selection switch for lithiums. 3 Panel Zamp and 1000 watt inverter charger installed by PO at Colonial.

1. Is there any harm (albeit I get not running at full efficiency or full charge etc.) that would occur (to Bats or other onboard systems) if I just plugged the lithiums in w/o changing anything else?

2. If I wanted to keep it all Victron, do they make a converter that would be appropriate for AS23?

Before asked, I do get "just spend it all upfront and get it done". That being said....I would like to break the install into bite sized sub-project form.. i.e., "do the converter first as it would still work with your existing system...", then do the bats, then do the......etc.

Additional parameters: will spend 100% of time on shore power (no boondocking) till total project complete.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMNummi;
Thanks Wulfraat! So... proceeding down the rabbit hole... can I just plug and play the lithiums first? Existing Zamp solar charge controller does have selection switch for lithiums. 3 Panel Zamp and 1000 watt inverter charger installed by PO at Colonial.

1. Is there any harm (albeit I get not running at full efficiency or full charge etc.) that would occur (to Bats or other onboard systems) if I just plugged the lithiums in w/o changing anything else?

2. If I wanted to keep it all Victron, do they make a converter that would be appropriate for AS23?

Before asked, I do get "just spend it all upfront and get it done". That being said....I would like to break the install into bite sized sub-project form.. i.e., "do the converter first as it would still work with your existing system...", then do the bats, then do the......etc.

Additional parameters: will spend 100% of time on shore power (no boondocking) till total project complete.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RMNummi;
Is there any harm (albeit I get not running at full efficiency or full charge etc.) that would occur (to Bats or other onboard systems) if I just plugged the lithiums in w/o changing anything else?
It is possible that you will not reach full charge on your batteries with the stock converter (I just helped another member troubleshoot this issue). In theory your solar charger should care for this, but you really need and want to have system components that are both calibrated for lithium voltages.

These batteries have "passive cell balancing" meaning they need to float at 100% at the correct voltage for an hour or so every once and a while to fully equalize the cells. Over time, if you do not effectively equalize the cell packs in the battery they can drift apart in voltage and cause some cells to work harder than others, shorten their lifespan, etc.. this is technically not something most people worry about but it is a fact of how these batteries work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMNummi;
2. If I wanted to keep it all Victron, do they make a converter that would be appropriate for AS23?
Victron do not make converters. They only make inverter / chargers. This is a different type of equipment and requires some re-wiring of your 120v and 12v systems. Replaces both your current converter and inverter. They run about $1500.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:06 AM   #5
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Welcome aboard...

Just me...

I got the 2 BB's mid Season 2018. Worked great.
Spring 2019<><><>The Boondocker Lithium 60a converter/charger, 2 Zamp 180w portables,(charging thru the 7pin), Victron monitor and shunt.
Done & done. $3.2k. DIY

Bob
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Sitting/resting...today.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:33 AM   #6
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there you have it
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:46 AM   #7
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So evidently

Step 1:
the WFCO WF-8950L2-MBA (Airstream part number 513889) is plug and play (remove old, plug in the WFCO, same wires, etc.) that has the settings for Lithium.

Step 2:
Research shows that I can (only) fit 2 renogy 100ah smart bats 11.4 x 6.8 x 7.4 into my old OEM box. It says on the Battleborn site that the 100ah bats won't fit in the old style smaller AS23 case which is about 15x15 but only 8 7/8 high. So Renogy (Height= 7.4) is what I'll be purchasing.

Step 3:
Renogy also seems to have a shunt w a surface mount bluetooth display so that seems to be the way to go as well.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:59 AM   #8
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I agree with others, since you already have solar, I think your best "immediate use value" is to get the lithium batteries next, then move to a new inverter if that is part of your plan. 2X the useable amp hours for the same footprint, and they re-charge faster when your controllers are optimized for the battery type. I made this upgrade last spring, and after having it, was wishing I had done it sooner.
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:25 PM   #9
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Thanks to all for the guidance…this is the best site for this info.
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Old 11-23-2021, 08:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Just me...



I got the 2 BB's mid Season 2018. Worked great.

Spring 2019&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;The Boondocker Lithium 60a converter/charger, 2 Zamp 180w portables,(charging thru the 7pin), Victron monitor and shunt.

Done & done. $3.2k. DIY



Bob







Sitting/resting...today.


Sounds like a great way to go. I have a couple of questions.

What led you to choose the Boondocker converter over a WFCO WF-9855 Lithium?

Did you install a DC to DC charger so that you can maintain a full state of charge while driving?

I’m not being critical of your setup, just striving to learn prior to me shelling out for a similar system.
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwils25 View Post
Sounds like a great way to go. I have a couple of questions.

What led you to choose the Boondocker converter over a WFCO WF-9855 Lithium?

Did you install a DC to DC charger so that you can maintain a full state of charge while driving?

I’m not being critical of your setup, just striving to learn prior to
me shelling out for a similar system.
I chose the Boondocker on the recommendation of Randy at Best Converter.
I bought my IOTA IQ4 from him 14yrs ago when I installed my Lifeline AGM's. Those AGM's were in the AS 11yrs, and are still working as sump pump back-up. I believe part of that is because of Randy's help and advise.
Price was also a factor.

I do not use anything to 'allow' charging while towing.(DC_DC) I see no benefit in keeping the BB's at 14.4+v while moving.
The Burb has a 220a alternator and will charge, but not enough to 'balance' the cells.
I have never had a 'backfeed' concern and never leave the 7way connected when not underway.

Bob
🇺🇸
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:17 AM   #12
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Please be aware that the Interstate system is similar but not totally alike to the systems in the trailers. You might want to read about upgrades in the Interstate side as you will probably totally confuse yourself and/or think the upgrade is similar but the fact we have an inverter/charger and our chassis batteries tie into our house batteries leads you down a bit of a different road for upgrading. I suggest watching the lithium upgrade by Irene Fitness on You Tube to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwils25 View Post
Sounds like a great way to go. I have a couple of questions.

What led you to choose the Boondocker converter over a WFCO WF-9855 Lithium?

Did you install a DC to DC charger so that you can maintain a full state of charge while driving?

I’m not being critical of your setup, just striving to learn prior to me shelling out for a similar system.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:05 AM   #13
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Ok, Renogy’s ordered along w BT2 Bluetooth monitoring (!). Was about to order the Renogy’s w onboard Bluetooth when I noticed they were an inch longer so wouldn’t fit in my old 2014 battery box. Notably 2 12v 100ah lithium’s w/ BT2 only came out to 1400 w free shipping. Love the thanksgiving cyber sales….

While battery shopping I noted you suggested a new inverter… I have the AS upgraded WF-5110H 1000w inverter already installed… do I need to upgrade that? My view of upgrading was Renogy’s 2000w “new” inverter w/ Bluetooth (is currently out of stock)….your thoughts appreciated.

Now question 2. You gave me the part number for the WFCO charger replacement… I ran down to the Trailer to double check before ordering. Turns out I have the Parallel Power Systems 7355 Converter Charger. Is this the same as the WFCO?
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:11 AM   #14
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Question 3: following research here, it appears that some plug in a battery disconnect when doing this brain surgery… the Renogy’s have a port that allows you to switch the battery to “storage” mode… will that suffice or should I wire the disconnect for redundant “off” mode?
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMNummi View Post
Question 3: following research here, it appears that some plug in a battery disconnect when doing this brain surgery… the Renogy’s have a port that allows you to switch the battery to “storage” mode… will that suffice or should I wire the disconnect for redundant “off” mode?
For winter storage, I switch my Renogy Smart lithium batteries to storage mode. It completely shuts them down. You can verify they are off with a multimeter.
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:43 AM   #16
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So E-Trailer says converter/charger lithium swap for 7355 Parallax is : Progressive Dynamics PD4655LIV. Parallax tech support says you need WFCO WF-8950L2-REP. I found the PD4655LIV for 250 bucks to give it a shot.

Feeling good about $1650 for 2 Lithium 100ah Renogy’s, OEM Charger/Controller lithium upgrade and a Bluetooth system monitor.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:48 PM   #17
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So E-Trailer says converter/charger lithium swap for 7355 Parallax is : Progressive Dynamics PD4655LIV.
Yes, per post #2 45 or 55 are both applicable for your application. These are higher quality converters as compared to WFCO.
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMNummi View Post
Ok, Renogy’s ordered along w BT2 Bluetooth monitoring (!). Was about to order the Renogy’s w onboard Bluetooth when I noticed they were an inch longer so wouldn’t fit in my old 2014 battery box. Notably 2 12v 100ah lithium’s w/ BT2 only came out to 1400 w free shipping. Love the thanksgiving cyber sales….

While battery shopping I noted you suggested a new inverter… I have the AS upgraded WF-5110H 1000w inverter already installed… do I need to upgrade that? My view of upgrading was Renogy’s 2000w “new” inverter w/ Bluetooth (is currently out of stock)….your thoughts appreciated.

Now question 2. You gave me the part number for the WFCO charger replacement… I ran down to the Trailer to double check before ordering. Turns out I have the Parallel Power Systems 7355 Converter Charger. Is this the same as the WFCO?

#2...I would get rid of the PLAX 7355 ASAP.
Newer, better lithium options available.

Bob
🇺🇸
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Instead of going to ’Starbucks…I make my own Coffee at home, yell out my name rong, then light a five dollar bill on fire.
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Old 11-26-2021, 03:20 PM   #19
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Is there a plug and play swap for the Parallax 7355? I’m swapping out the charger portion for the Parallax suggested “lithium” upgrade. Should I be swapping out the whole thing?
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