Progressive Dynamics Converter - Thoughts?

[Posse96]

Originally Posted by alano

Whether or not the fan is running is a red herring. The fan kicks in when an internal temperature sensor says so. This doesn't mean your converter isn't working properly.

Your converter operates as a single-stage battery converter. This isn't great, but you have a solar charger. By selecting the "store" position when you're connected to shore power for extended periods you can avoid the potential harm that can occur from a single-stage battery charger by disconnecting your batteries from the converter.....

I know the converter has the temp sensor, yet the one point I noted is the converter fan runs 24/7; whether in Store or Use and plugged to a land source. I just completed a 5-state trip, and this did not occur, only a recent development When my trailer is 58 degs inside the converter fans runs or if it's warm, it runs. It appears it's not running because of unit heat, as I feel no hot air coming from it. Interestingly, when I switch to Store, and on the land power, my interior lights go dim, like there is no juice in the power line. We've tested the outlet, and my surge protector, all tested fine.

I appreciate the feedback and definitely will convert the converter (ha, a pun).

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Posse96

I know the converter has the temp sensor, yet the one point I noted is the converter fan runs 24/7; whether in Store or Use and plugged to a land source. I just completed a 5-state trip, and this did not occur, only a recent development When my trailer is 58 degs inside the converter fans runs or if it's warm, it runs. It appears it's not running because of unit heat, as I feel no hot air coming from it. Interestingly, when I switch to Store, and on the land power, my interior lights go dim, like there is no juice in the power line. We've tested the outlet, and my surge protector, all tested fine.

I appreciate the feedback and definitely will convert the converter (ha, a pun).

Sounds like the same issue I just posted about my friends new 23'. His converter was always running...it was bad as confirmed by AS technical folks. See earlier post #6. He had AS replace with a multi-stage unit; the Progressive Dynamics PD4635 4 stage converter. Others have done this same change at home..."pay now or pay later"...

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Given that you are replacing a multi stage converter with a multi stage converter, there isn't much gain in the converter swap out process. The only gain would be if you could actually improved the charging. That only happens if you add a temperature sensor.

Adding a coulomb counting monitor lets you work out how much is or isn't in your battery. It gives you a much better idea of when to stop using power. Since *that* is the source of a lot of battery problems, it's worth doing if you have repeat "battery dead" issues.

Bob

No disrespect intended, but you continue to argue that the new multistage converters are not much better then the single stage original equipment models? Making this argument is confusing...many of us have made the switch to the new 4 stage units, after losing batteries or having other issues with the older original equipment converters that came with our AS. The new circuitry provides rapid charge and sensing equipment to provide smart charge and float mode for tending the batteries. Not so with the older units. Big difference.

....anyway, as for the other monitors for the battery, I can see the value if one is so inclined to add this type device and money is no object...just think you can also get same capability for a lot less then $200?

[Ruscal]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

No disrespect intended, but you continue to argue that the new multistage converters are not much better then the single stage original equipment models? Making this argument is confusing...many of us have made the switch to the new 4 stage units, after losing batteries or having other issues with the older original equipment converters that came with our AS. The new circuitry provides rapid charge and sensing equipment to provide smart charge and float mode for tending the batteries. Not so with the older units. Big difference.

....anyway, as for the other monitors for the battery, I can see the value if one is so inclined to add this type device and money is no object...just think you can also get same capability for a lot less then $200?

I feel that at $200 The battery monitor is a steal. I is almost a "must have".
Just for peace of mind knowing how charged your batteries are is worth a lot.
It tells me how much current is entering or leaving the system. That tells me if the Progressive Dynamics is operating, and what stage of charge it is in.
It tells me the current harvested by the sun and approximately how much time will be needed to top off the batteries.
It tells me what devices are power hogs and which ones are thrifty.
It tells me if I have parasitic draw that needs to be chased down.
you just toggle the readout between % of charge, current flow, and voltage.
If a person can afford an Airstream $200 is chump change. I would buy a monitor if they were double the cost.
You are totally correct that a monitor is not necessary, but it sure is money well spent.
Russ

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

No disrespect intended, but you continue to argue that the new multistage converters are not much better then the single stage original equipment models? Making this argument is confusing...many of us have made the switch to the new 4 stage units, after losing batteries or having other issues with the older original equipment converters that came with our AS. The new circuitry provides rapid charge and sensing equipment to provide smart charge and float mode for tending the batteries. Not so with the older units. Big difference.

....anyway, as for the other monitors for the battery, I can see the value if one is so inclined to add this type device and money is no object...just think you can also get same capability for a lot less then $200?

Hi

Since the multi stage converters came out many years ago, no, I am *not* arguing that a mythical converter that never existed is in any way comparable. You can't compare to something that never existed ....

Bob

[slowmover]

I’ve automatically installed a PD Charge Wizard in the last three TT. A no brainer for the price. No more related problems.

Is it best? No

I’ll get back to it later, eat the cost. Each TT had serious stuff to deal with.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Ruscal

I feel that at $200 The battery monitor is a steal. I is almost a "must have".
Just for peace of mind knowing how charged your batteries are is worth a lot.
It tells me how much current is entering or leaving the system. That tells me if the Progressive Dynamics is operating, and what stage of charge it is in.
It tells me the current harvested by the sun and approximately how much time will be needed to top off the batteries.
It tells me what devices are power hogs and which ones are thrifty.
It tells me if I have parasitic draw that needs to be chased down.
you just toggle the readout between % of charge, current flow, and voltage.
If a person can afford an Airstream $200 is chump change. I would buy a monitor if they were double the cost.
You are totally correct that a monitor is not necessary, but it sure is money well spent.
Russ

No argument, if your so inclined. as to feel you want/need an additional monitor with more information. I see the value, but I also am "currently" comfortable with the battery state monitor that came with my AS.

We checked the charging status with a multi-meter and compared the stock monitor readout on our AS information panel, after installing the 4 stage Boondocker Converter recently. The AS "battery" voltage information on the info status panel, tracked the multi-meter readout's in all phases of our check's. We verified thru all 4 stages of charging to be sure. So for now, I know everything is working as advertised with the new converter....

True, I don't see all the amp info nor temp sensing, but I am fine so far. My point was there are several "less expensive" choices, including remote capability if I do choose to go that direction.... Appreciate the feedback.

[tvoneicken]

Looking at the PD charging profile I'm not liking what I see. The bulk phase seems to be a constant voltage of 14.4 volts instead of constant current. More distubingly, the float voltage is only 13.2 volts. I have two Trojan T-105's and Trojan recommends a float of 13.5v @25C. 13.2v is too little and will lead to sulfation.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by tvoneicken

-- snip -- 13.2v is too little and will lead to sulfation.

This is a link that showes the Charge Wizard technology boosts voltage up every 21 hours to prevent that sulfation stuff. Is that not a successful approach? Pat

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...#charge-wizard

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by PKI

This is a link that showes the Charge Wizard technology boosts voltage up every 21 hours to prevent that sulfation stuff. Is that not a successful approach? Pat

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...#charge-wizard

Hi

Boosting the voltage above 14V (at 70F) is what actually boils batteries. The less often you do it the better. In a constant charge setting, there is no reason to do it once a day.

Bob

[Ruscal]

Probably OK if you check electrolyte level often, and keep it up to level. The anti-sulphation cycles are usually so short in duration that not much boiling will occur.
Russ

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by tvoneicken

Looking at the PD charging profile I'm not liking what I see. The bulk phase seems to be a constant voltage of 14.4 volts instead of constant current. More distubingly, the float voltage is only 13.2 volts. I have two Trojan T-105's and Trojan recommends a float of 13.5v @25C. 13.2v is too little and will lead to sulfation.

Not sure your concern if you have spent anytime understanding how these multi-stage (4-stage) Converter systems work? Both Progressive Dynamics and Boondocker 4-stage converters employ smart charging technology and actually keep your batteries safely maintained and prevent sulfation from happening. You might read the Progressive Dynamics "Battery Management 101" (see below website) to understand what happens when charging batteries both with, and without this technology. Many of us have made the switch. (Of course, as with any post here lately, there will be some "experts" who will continue to disagree with the "experts")

Check this website out:
https://www.progressivedyn.com/service/battery-management-101/

From Progressive Dynamics Battery Management 101 website:
"When the battery reaches full charge charging voltage must be reduced to 13.2 volts. This lower voltage reduces charging current to 20 to 25 milliamps, enough to replace current lost through the internal leakage present in all batteries. The Charge Wizard knows this and automatically selects STORAGE MODE of operation and reduces charger voltage to 13.2 volts."

Boondocker charge description:
4 STAGE CHARGING DESCRIPTIONS.
1. A fast charge (14.6 VDC Max) to bring a good, drained battery back up to full voltage rapidly ("Boost"). 2. A standard charge (13.6 VDC Nominal) to bring the battery up to a full charge at a safe rate to prolong the life of the battery and provide power to run 12V lighting and appliances in the vehicle/device ("Normal"). 3. A trickle/float charge (13.2 VDC) to keep the battery fresh during times of load inactivity ("Storage"). The charger automatically changes modes to accommodate changes in conditions. 4. When the converter is in the trickle/float mode (storage), the converter will periodically raise the voltage to mix the battery electrolyte to prevent stratification which can lead to sulfation.

[JohnTF]

Several issues / problems with this thread , generally started from the original post and not understanding .
It is really a 2 part [ min. ] question , talking about #1 changing out a converter , #2 just throwing a solar panel into the mix .
No fault can be laid here , some one just asking questions .
On the 1st part , changing converters , there are too many to choose but limiting to one mentioned .
2nd adding solar , is hole another subject ---- you can not simply just add a solar panel [ except in the sense that if you use a small enough panel - charge rate a few amps , you will not harm batteries ] .
Out of that come a 3rd issue , what battery chemistry & matching to what ever you are have to what you want to do --- and this brings a 4th .
System design , designing a system means looking at as a hole = all the parts work together .
So we end up with mostly comments referring to just one of the parts in this mix , and some of those are correct , but without a system design [ parts working together ] and the comments on different subjects / components , many may be OK , but none are right if not part of a system .
A lot of misunderstanding is coming from what I call the chineeze affect = cheep stuff coming out that makes it easy to just add things to what you have --- the idea behind that [ from me ] is that the cost is so low , that many can give it a try , the low cost makes if easy to ignore the need for learning " because I'm not going loose much " ,
vs. building a efficient system cost more , takes some knowledge , takes some commitment of time & money to do properly .
Each component needs to work with the next , not all converters work [ well , or at all ] with all batteries , in the environment we are talking about - converting shore power 120vac to 12vdc can be simple , but we are also talking about charging batteries when we do not have AC , problem right there , " what battery " .
So the need for a programable charger - with the wide variety of batteries .
Then the next is adding solar , so now we need some type of combiner - that takes multiple sources of power , and does multiple jobs suppling 12vdc for loads and charging batteries - as charge controller that accepts multiple sources of power - 120ac , solar etc.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by JohnTF

Several issues / problems with this thread , generally started from the original post and not understanding .
It is really a 2 part [ min. ] question , talking about #1 changing out a converter , #2 just throwing a solar panel into the mix .
No fault can be laid here , some one just asking questions .
On the 1st part , changing converters , there are too many to choose but limiting to one mentioned .
2nd adding solar , is hole another subject ---- you can not simply just add a solar panel [ except in the sense that if you use a small enough panel - charge rate a few amps , you will not harm batteries ] .
Out of that come a 3rd issue , what battery chemistry & matching to what ever you are have to what you want to do --- and this brings a 4th .
System design , designing a system means looking at as a hole = all the parts work together .
So we end up with mostly comments referring to just one of the parts in this mix , and some of those are correct , but without a system design [ parts working together ] and the comments on different subjects / components , many may be OK , but none are right if not part of a system .
A lot of misunderstanding is coming from what I call the chineeze affect = cheep stuff coming out that makes it easy to just add things to what you have --- the idea behind that [ from me ] is that the cost is so low , that many can give it a try , the low cost makes if easy to ignore the need for learning " because I'm not going loose much " ,
vs. building a efficient system cost more , takes some knowledge , takes some commitment of time & money to do properly .
Each component needs to work with the next , not all converters work [ well , or at all ] with all batteries , in the environment we are talking about - converting shore power 120vac to 12vdc can be simple , but we are also talking about charging batteries when we do not have AC , problem right there , " what battery " .
So the need for a programable charger - with the wide variety of batteries .
Then the next is adding solar , so now we need some type of combiner - that takes multiple sources of power , and does multiple jobs suppling 12vdc for loads and charging batteries - as charge controller that accepts multiple sources of power - 120ac , solar etc.

Sayyyy whaaaaat?? What problems are you talking about with this thread??

I think he has a pretty good "system" now with his 6V Trojan batteries, his Zamp solar, and his new PD Converter...he can always add more solar or different batteries with controller if he decides to grow, right?

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by JohnTF

Several issues / problems with this thread , generally started from the original post and not understanding .
It is really a 2 part [ min. ] question , talking about #1 changing out a converter , #2 just throwing a solar panel into the mix .
..." .
So the need for a programable charger - with the wide variety of batteries .
Then the next is adding solar , so now we need some type of combiner - that takes multiple sources of power , and does multiple jobs suppling 12vdc for loads and charging batteries - as charge controller that accepts multiple sources of power - 120ac , solar etc.

You have a valid point in that the components must integrate properly, but I think that it is okay for people to post regarding components of the system based on their experience. For example, I replaced my Parallax with a PD4645, and that component change alone has benefited me... and I may never know how much but a single event where it shut down on low voltage alone could have paid the cost of the upgrade.

I also have added solar, using a Morningstar Tristar controller with the option of 6 pre-seets or program your own. It wasn't cheap and is designed to handle an off grid cabin if needed. I don't talk about it much since my brother who holds a Ph.D in Laser Optics and has been a ham radio operator since he was 12 years old designed the integration using relays and other components that even protect the system from RF damage.

All I know is that I asked him to design it so that if I had power to the converter from any source other than solar (shore power or generator) that the system give priority to the non solar source. The system works great, and I can also use external solar converters and 5 to 45 watt panels independently to charge small 12 volt 12 amp hour batteries for my CPAP.

With this system I can use solar to charge the coach batteries with higher settings than the PD allows for depending on my battery set (see the Internet for posting by 'Angry Bob' or 'Handy Bob' on battery charging, especially wet cell lead acid batteries).

Anyway, I think anyone reading the "partial answers" who goes out and spends money just thinking he/she will plug and play without system integration is guilty of not doing their homework and probably deserves what they get if it doesn't work. Just MHO.

[Posse96]

As Fairfield AS recommends, I would replace your Converter ASAP to avoid any issues...unless you want to constantly monitor your batteries with other sensors, heat monitors, etc... I don't want to spend extra time doing this, so the multi-stage converters are the way to go, IMHO...I also installed a manual battery "kill switch" on the batteries to insure there is "no power" going to my AS when I am "storing" for few weeks or more....even when plugged in. [/QUOTE]

Thanks, had Chris do the change out.

[Posse96]

Originally Posted by JohnTF

I took a quick look at both company sites , the solar panel & the converter , just to have a little more info on what there are .
I would say 1st , I did not find a " expandable " label , and you had no mention of buying a kit [ charge controller etc. ] , just a 100 watt panel , and that is just a trickle charger - Ohms law saw just over 8 amps .
If you do want to get serous about solar , then designing a system [ vers. getting multiple popular products & mix & match ] .
Once you get more solar , above trickle charging , maybe a min. 20 -30 amp ++
Then putting more into a system , inverter - many of these have transfer switches - to go from shore power to battery automatically when the sense load against source , and then , again good ones will have programable charge controllers - to match your battery bank .
Then definitely have a solar system monitor , this is for many reasons , 1st off learning about your system , then watching for issues , weather maintenance or if you system is keeping up with your use .
As an example , not designing / building a SYSTME , will cause all kinds of failures / early replacement of components etc.
My last system allowed my to run 100% off grid and run AC , large color TV , microwave , large Bose stero system +++ , never got discharged more than 40% and the batteries lasted 14 yrs. .
The tell of a good system is - how long the batteries last !

The Zamp 100w I purchased includes the expandable kit. As Airstream is doing the converter switch, they've handled any additional needs.

[laferic]

Hi .. I have a Safari 23 2006 .. with interstate SRM-24 batteries .. I'm looking into new batteries and change the converter to PD. Do i need need th Converter Status Remote Pendant? Doesnt look like .. i found a simple Bluetooth monitor system in amazon .. i might go that way .. as far as battery, any experience with Trojans?
Thank you so much for all the information shared in this forum!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by laferic

Hi .. I have a Safari 23 2006 .. with interstate SRM-24 batteries .. I'm looking into new batteries and change the converter to PD. Do i need need th Converter Status Remote Pendant? Doesnt look like .. i found a simple Bluetooth monitor system in amazon .. i might go that way .. as far as battery, any experience with Trojans?
Thank you so much for all the information shared in this forum!

Hi

Don't buy this stuff on Amazon. There will *always* be questions about this and that. You need a human being on the other end of the phone. It might cost a couple dollars more to get it from this or that guy (but maybe not ....). It's well worth whatever the cost. Randy at Best converter gets mentioned a lot. There are certainly other good people out there as well.

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by laferic

Hi .. I have a Safari 23 2006 .. with interstate SRM-24 batteries .. I'm looking into new batteries and change the converter to PD. Do i need need th Converter Status Remote Pendant? Doesnt look like .. i found a simple Bluetooth monitor system in amazon .. i might go that way .. as far as battery, any experience with Trojans?
Thank you so much for all the information shared in this forum!

I second the suggestion; call Randy at Bestconverters.com...he also owns an AS...we got the Boondocker 4 stage converter from Randy...works well and was not very expensive. As for batteries, we have gone thru Interstate replacment 3 times with last 3 AS's. This new model had bad batteries also; Interstate replaced free under warranty. I took those and sold them for $100 and purchased 2 Trojan wet cell, 6V Golf Cart batteries after reading several threads on this subject. (there are many, many, threads/opinions on here regarding these topics...) So far the Trojans are working out great. There are other 6V batteries recommended from Sams or Costco which are a bit cheaper, have good warranty, and you can find most in most locations should something happen. I paid $136/each for my Trojans with military discount...I'm satisfied so far. Wet cells were recommended by my dealer as being less expensive then AGM's and if maintained (check water few times a year), will outlast the AGM's.. Forgot to mention, consider installing a mechanical kill switch on your batteries to insure the batteries are disconnected when storing for long periods...converter can still operate your AS when connected in storage...