Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-30-2023, 02:34 PM   #1
Senior Esquire III
 
2022 27' Globetrotter
Buffalo , New York
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
Popping 50a buss at battery terminal, instead of popping breakers

Hello everyone and anyone that may be able to help me on this one.

I blew two 50a buss at battery terminal instead of tripping the breakers inside. Is this normal or do I need to replace the breakers? I would think the breaker would trip before it hit the 50a buss at the battery?

Seee what happened was....

I have used the Dyson fan (pictured in the past but this time it was in heat mode). I'm not sure that it draws that much of a current in space heater mode than basic fan mode. If this is normal and I am being an idiot, please advise as this would not be my first go around as such!

Also, I am wondering if I am in the correct setting for lithium batteries. I have included this photo as well.

Any help would be much appreciated, I have gotten so much knowledge from the folks on this page in the past. So thank you in advance.

V/r
jlu
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2278.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	189.3 KB
ID:	437375   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2279.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	320.4 KB
ID:	437376  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_22791.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	154.3 KB
ID:	437377   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2281.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	185.8 KB
ID:	437378  

J-LU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2023, 03:22 PM   #2
Site Team
 
richard5933's Avatar

 
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha , Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,259
Images: 5
Are you running this through an inverter? If so, it sounds like you're asking it to draw too much from the batteries to supply the needed power.

The circuit breakers are likely on the 120v side and the heater/fan isn't drawing enough to trip them.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
richard5933 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2023, 03:48 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,999
Blog Entries: 4
Wrong size fuse?

J-LU, no worries, we all come here for answers and to learn.

Is the fuse youíre blowing located on the battery post? If so, I think 50A is the wrong size which would explain why it keeps blowing.

I requested the electrical schematics from Airstream for our 2019 27í Globetrotter but they donít change much from year to year. In the schematic, it shows a 110A AT style fuse. I am pretty sure ours was 100A before I replaced the AGM batteries for a Battle Born GC3.

Iíll attach a photo of the location of the fuse from ours and the section of the schematic. That is the fuse for the feed to the inverter.

Good luck!
Jeff
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2157.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	392.6 KB
ID:	437379   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0062.jpeg
Views:	63
Size:	355.5 KB
ID:	437380  

__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2023, 05:23 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
1988 32' Excella
Robbinsville , New Jersey
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,931
That Dyson fan/heater probably draws 1500 watts on high, that's 12.5 amps at 120 volts protected by 15 or 20 amp breaker, with inefficiency that would be over 130 amps at 12 volts. So normal to blow a 50 amp fuse if your inverter is drawing power through them.
Wazbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2023, 07:08 PM   #5
Senior Esquire III
 
2022 27' Globetrotter
Buffalo , New York
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
Yes, to everyone! You guys answered all my concerns. I do think the 50a buss might need to be the 110a but it also explains as to why it blew and not the breakers. You guys rock, I do apologize that this is fundamental electronics but sometimes I just need things explained like this.

I truly appreciate the help on this. I will get a hold of battle born to see if I need to update to the proper buss fuse.

Thank you again for the education!

V/r
jlu
J-LU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2023, 09:30 PM   #6
diesel maniac
 
ITSNO60's Avatar
 
Airstream - Other
Tucson , AZ
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,444
Before changing the fuse size the wire needs to be verified that it is large enough to handle the current of the new fuse without overheating.
__________________
Brian
ITSNO60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2023, 11:08 PM   #7
Site Team
 
richard5933's Avatar

 
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha , Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,259
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITSNO60 View Post
Before changing the fuse size the wire needs to be verified that it is large enough to handle the current of the new fuse without overheating.
THIS^^^

Do not just upgrade the fuses without upgrading all the wiring involved.

Fuses are generally intended to protect the wiring, not just the device at the end of the wiring. If you put in a larger fuse without putting in larger wiring your wiring essentially becomes the fuse, and if you draw more current across it than the wiring can safely handle a meltdown begins, often ending in a fire.

Here's a great chart to help you calculate the correct wiring size for the load and length of the conductors:

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437

Looks like you'd likely need a 2/0 wire on the inverter circuit here.

Another important thing to remember when trying to operate a heavy load like an electric heater is your battery bank size. If you're trying to run a 1500-watt heater you'll want to have a sizable battery bank.

A common install has just two 100Ah lithium batteries, and with this load going you'd only last about 1-1/2 hours till fully depleted. Less if you have any other loads. Not something I'd recommend doing often either - my opinion is that running systems to the full capacity should be done only infrequently, as doing this all the time can shorten the life of the batteries and other components.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
richard5933 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 06:42 AM   #8
1 Rivet Member
 
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Woodinville , Washington
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 19
Allow me to amplify...

... Brian and Richard are spot on.
Nishad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 09:31 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,999
Blog Entries: 4
Clarification

J-LU, of course you need to verify the wiring size before replacing any fuse with a larger one.

Thatís why I asked the question if your fuse was attached to the battery post like in the photo I showed with the fuse circled. IF your wiring is the same as in the diagram, itís a 4 ga. wire and the fuse was a 110A from the factory.

IF NOT, and itís been modified by an installer or someone else, VERIFY the size before installing a larger fuse.

It would help if you shared a photo and what else was done. You mention Battle Born so Iím assuming (the dealer?) installed BB lithium instead of AGM or flooded acid batteries. As long as they did not modify the factory wiring and the fuse is connected to the 4 ga. Inverter wire, itís my opinion the wrong size fuse was installed at some point.

If youíre not comfortable with DC electrical work please seek professional assistance.
-Jeff
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 09:34 AM   #10
Site Team
 
richard5933's Avatar

 
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha , Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,259
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc306 View Post
...itís a 4 ga. wire and the fuse was a 110A from the factory...
-Jeff
You've got a 110A fuse on a 4 ga. wire? According to the charts I've seen that's marginal at best and likely under sized if it's more than a couple of feet long.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
richard5933 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 09:36 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
waninae39's Avatar
 
2022 25' Flying Cloud
NCR , Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,019
fuses are designed to save the wiring , ie no fires, melting , too hot etc.

NEVER change the fuse size WITHOUT increasing the wire capacity. This is applies to trailer, house, office, industrial building. This is the law in many places also

IMHO, its best to have a biggest size cable you can fit/afford. these will also have the lowest loses
__________________
2023 25' FB FC, hatch, Queen, 30A, 1AC, Awning pkg, Convection uwave.
Multiplus 12/3000-50, 700A Lion, MPPT 100/30, Orion-TR 30, Cerbo GX,GX touch 50, Lynx distributor, dual BMV-712, smart shunt 500A&1000A, RUUVI temp/humidity sensors
NCR , Ontario, VE3HIU since 1978
waninae39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 10:43 AM   #12
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,478
Hi

Backing up a bit:

The gizmos that say "Buss" on them are Buss brand fuses. There are multiple brands of fuses out there. The 50A fuse you show is a 12V part. The other pictures are of the 12V distribution panel. It's a good guess that the 50A fuse is the "main" fuse for that panel. It is only a guess though ....

If indeed that is correct, it's going to blow when more than 50A is pulled into the *combination* of all the conventional 12V loads. It is not associated with the inverter. The inverter pulls way more current. Its fuse and cabling is in a different location.

If the fan is running on 120V and you are "off grid" then the inverter is involved. If you overload the inverter, it is likely to cut out. That may or may not blow the inline fuse.

This still leaves the question of the blown 50A device. Best guess: to much plugged into various 12V outlets around the trailer.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 11:56 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,999
Blog Entries: 4
See the Factory Wiring Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard5933 View Post
You've got a 110A fuse on a 4 ga. wire? According to the charts I've seen that's marginal at best and likely under sized if it's more than a couple of feet long.
Guys - please take a moment and read the factory wiring diagram. This is what JC provided (not me). Just trying to show what it was coming from the factory.

Yes, I upgraded my wiring gauge when replacing it with a Victron MultiPlus II and Battle Born setup. Definitely recommended.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0062.jpeg
Views:	39
Size:	117.6 KB
ID:	437386  
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 12:01 PM   #14
Site Team
 
richard5933's Avatar

 
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha , Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,259
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc306 View Post
Guys - please take a moment and read the factory wiring diagram. This is what JC provided (not me). Just trying to show what it was coming from the factory.



Yes, I upgraded my wiring gauge when replacing it with a Victron MultiPlus II and Battle Born setup. Definitely recommended.
I've thought for a while that Airstream tends to undersize their wiring. This looks like a good example. It must work for the most part or we'd hear of problems more often, but it's certainly not ideal.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
richard5933 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2023, 07:07 PM   #15
1 Rivet Member
 
2019 27' Flying Cloud
Wichita , KS
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 18
Not sure if this contributes, but… we blew that same fuse when using the inverter and accidentally turned on the vacuum. Ours was 100A.

2019 27’ FC FBT - no electrical upgrades.
__________________
2019 Flying Cloud 27íFBT
ďThe Sjugar ShackĒ
Sjugar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2023, 12:23 AM   #16
Senior Esquire III
 
2022 27' Globetrotter
Buffalo , New York
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
Great discussion, I'm really thankful for all the great and thoughtful information.

I have attached the photos of my batteries and the location of the 50a fuse.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2313.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	301.7 KB
ID:	437404   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2312.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	295.5 KB
ID:	437405  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2311.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	237.8 KB
ID:	437406  
J-LU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2023, 10:16 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,999
Blog Entries: 4
J-LU, something doesnít look right in the photos.

First, thereís a 100A fuse on the left of that dual-fuse holder. The wire connected to that 100A fuse is too small of a gauge for that much current.

The largest gauge wire is connected directly to the battery post so itís not protected by any fuse. In my original factory install, the inverterís 4 ga. Wire was connected to a 100A fuse on a single fuse holder.

Did the dealer install the Battle Born batteries for you? Itís difficult to troubleshoot through the photos without being able to trace where the wires go. Mine didnít look like yours with the dual fuse holder.

My suggestion is to seek out a person with Airstream knowledge (another dealer or JC) or someone from a local Airstream club who can help.

Maybe another Airstream owner who also had a Lithium install done by a dealer can offer help.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0070.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	236.5 KB
ID:	437457  
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2023, 04:45 AM   #18
2 Rivet Member
 
2022 30' Classic
Cohoes , NY
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc306 View Post
J-LU, something doesnít look right in the photos.



First, thereís a 100A fuse on the left of that dual-fuse holder. The wire connected to that 100A fuse is too small of a gauge for that much current.



The largest gauge wire is connected directly to the battery post so itís not protected by any fuse. In my original factory install, the inverterís 4 ga. Wire was connected to a 100A fuse on a single fuse holder.



Did the dealer install the Battle Born batteries for you? Itís difficult to troubleshoot through the photos without being able to trace where the wires go. Mine didnít look like yours with the dual fuse holder.



My suggestion is to seek out a person with Airstream knowledge (another dealer or JC) or someone from a local Airstream club who can help.



Maybe another Airstream owner who also had a Lithium install done by a dealer can offer help.


I have to agree. It looks like the wire at the far left of the original photo is the one that should have the 50a fuse. It looks to me that this setup is wired wrong.

The two largest red wires are the supplies into your trailer. The smaller of the two is for your DC panel and the larger of the two is your inverter. Both of those wires should be attached at the fuse block - smaller one to the 50a fuse and the larger one to the 100a fuse. From what I can tell here, youíve got the 50a fuse between the two batteries, and nothing connected to the 100a fuse.

If youíre not confident with electrical wiring, have a professional look at this.
Joey Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2023, 04:48 AM   #19
2 Rivet Member
 
2022 30' Classic
Cohoes , NY
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 45
Reference photo from my 22 Classic.
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2852.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	328.3 KB
ID:	437469
Joey Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2023, 10:18 AM   #20
4 Rivet Member
 
JeffKim's Avatar
 
2023 25' Globetrotter
2021 16' Bambi
Forest Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 380
FWIW, our 2023 GT 25' came with a 100A MRBF fused to the inverter which is 4 AWG (marginal as pointed out). I would guess this was the same in the 2022 27'.

Not relevant, but when I installed our lithium batteries inside, I pulled the 4 AWG out of the battery box and cut out 5' or so then reused 100A fuse and holder on the Lynx distributor. It gave me a little comfort removing some wire.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6789.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	260.2 KB
ID:	437472  
__________________
2023 Globetrotter 25FBT "Curly"
2017 Audi Q7 3.0T
JeffKim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery terminal buss fuses turonueve Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 2 10-19-2021 09:09 AM
Magic 50A Breakers uncle_bob Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 10 07-01-2018 05:59 PM
Airstream is popping breakers jlongtine Electronics & Connectivity 10 09-27-2015 09:26 AM
Using a 30A cord with a 50A shore power terminal thebreezeman Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 46 02-08-2015 08:12 PM
Aluminum to Copper buss bar Adair Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 10 09-19-2007 07:53 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.