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Old 04-22-2024, 02:50 PM   #1
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2021 16' Basecamp
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PD9160alv Discontinued - What Are We Using Now?

Like many here we have a WFCO auto-detect model which does not detect our new Battle Born lithium batteries.

The consensus is to replace the WFCO with PD9160alv which I understand was a direct plug and play replacement. That model now appears to be discontinued.

I’m not looking for a project. What model is now recommended for a direct plug and play application?

2023 International 23FB
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Old 04-22-2024, 08:48 PM   #2
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Get in touch with bestconverter.com many have had great experiences with them.
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Old 04-23-2024, 03:25 AM   #3
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Where are you seeing that the PD9160alv has been discontinued? I still see it listed on their website both under the product page and their recommended replacement page.

If you can't find the 60-amp model, it seems from the Best Converter website that you can mount two smaller capacity models in parallel to up the capacity.

There are also other lithium-ready chargers out there and I would agree that speaking to Randy at Best Converters is the best next step.
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Old 04-23-2024, 08:25 AM   #4
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Pd360 is what randy recommended as a direct replacement that they had good success with.
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Old 04-24-2024, 05:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard5933 View Post
Where are you seeing that the PD9160alv has been discontinued? I still see it listed on their website both under the product page and their recommended replacement page.

If you can't find the 60-amp model, it seems from the Best Converter website that you can mount two smaller capacity models in parallel to up the capacity.

There are also other lithium-ready chargers out there and I would agree that speaking to Randy at Best Converters is the best next step.
I noticed virtually everyone was out of stock, and those that had stock were asking significantly more than retail. I contacted Power Dynamics to ask if there was an updated model and they replied PD 9360V 60 Amp Battery Selectable Converter Charger.

I’ve purchased PD 9360V from Best Converter and I’ll report back on my experience.
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Old 05-01-2024, 09:29 AM   #6
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WFCO Auto-Detect

You can also try to "trick" the WFCO Auto Detect converter to read lithium:

1. Unplug from shore power.
2. Run fans, fridge, TV, basically anything that will discharge the batteries. Running things for ~1-3 hours should be good enough.
3. Turn off everything.
4. Plug back in to shore power.
5. At the power distribution panel inside, turn off the main breaker to the trailer.
6. Count slowly to 5.
7. Turn breaker back on.
8. You should be able to see the LED's through the vent of the WFCO converter (near the floor).
9. LED's should alternate flashing green/blue, and maybe red.
10. Leave alone overnight.
11. Check next day, LED's should be blue, indicating it is now reading lithium.

This trick worked for me on our 2024. Your mileage may vary.
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Old 05-01-2024, 03:24 PM   #7
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So, I am having a charging issue detailed here, where my Victron 50A charger will put out 47A or so for about a minute then switch off, then it comes back on at 47A, and repeats. When I reduced the charging to 30A it charges at a constant level without switching off. At first, I thought it had something to do with the BMS switching off, but now I'm thinking it's tripping the 50A breaker in the bus bar battery connection. I haven't been able to test this yet.

I would assume the International 23 has a similar 50A breaker, so I'm curious won't PD 60A trip it as well? Or does the PD have a lower charging amperage profile for lithium?
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Old 05-01-2024, 09:06 PM   #8
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So, I am having a charging issue detailed here, where my Victron 50A charger will put out 47A or so for about a minute then switch off, then it comes back on at 47A, and repeats. When I reduced the charging to 30A it charges at a constant level without switching off. At first, I thought it had something to do with the BMS switching off, but now I'm thinking it's tripping the 50A breaker in the bus bar battery connection. I haven't been able to test this yet.

I would assume the International 23 has a similar 50A breaker, so I'm curious won't PD 60A trip it as well? Or does the PD have a lower charging amperage profile for lithium?
When this happens, can you feel the breaker clicking as the power cuts in/out?

When you installed the new charger, did you upgrade the wiring connections? Mine is connected to the batteries directly via a bus bar I installed. The charger has 4ga wires to the bus bar and even heavier cables between the bus bar and the batteries.

In my opinion, the OEM wiring is not adequate for the rate of charge/discharge possible with lithium batteries, and if there is a 50a breaker between the batterie and the 12vdc system it's something you might need to reconsider.
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Old 05-02-2024, 02:49 AM   #9
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Reporting back on my install experience with the PD 9360V.

The WFCO on my 2023 International 23FB was hard wired to the panel. The AC power cord on the PD 9360V was your typical 120v 3-prong, so the first task was to cut off the 3-prong and strip the outer insulation. This was probably the most time consuming part.

Removing the WFCO was boringly simple. Two screws holding it to the floor, removing the hot lead from the breaker, neutral and ground leads from the bus bars, and of course the DC positive and negative leads. A 5 minute task.

Wiring installation of the PD 9360V into the panel was the opposite of removing the WFCO. A 5 minute task. One thing to note is you will need positive and negative leads (12-18 inches) to wire the DC side into the distribution panel. The WFCO had these leads built-in, so I cut them off that unit to save myself a trip to the hardware store.

Here is the tricky part. This unit is bigger than the WFCO in width, I used VHB tape to secure it to the floor, and the cooling fins stick out to the absolute edge of the cubby hole under the distribution panel. The face of the panel has reinforcement ribs on the inside so they protrude into that cubby by maybe 1/2 an inch, which means you have to wrestle with it to get it reinstalled. Being plastic is somewhat pliable, I was able to get the bottom feet of the face locked into the slots, push forward on the top, and screw it into place. A better long term solution may be to dremel the reinforcement ribs from the inside of the panel so there’s no interference.

Performance. Based on 2 x 100ah battle born lithiums (200ah) at 80% charge, my victron shunt measured a charge rate of 20-25 amps on shore power. It’s a 60A charger/converter, so I’m not sure if the discrepancy is due to the batteries already having 80%, or whether the gauge or length of wiring from the factory is a limiting factor. It does fully charge the batteries, so that box is checked.
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Old 05-02-2024, 08:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard5933 View Post
When this happens, can you feel the breaker clicking as the power cuts in/out?

When you installed the new charger, did you upgrade the wiring connections? Mine is connected to the batteries directly via a bus bar I installed. The charger has 4ga wires to the bus bar and even heavier cables between the bus bar and the batteries.

In my opinion, the OEM wiring is not adequate for the rate of charge/discharge possible with lithium batteries, and if there is a 50a breaker between the batterie and the 12vdc system it's something you might need to reconsider.
I hear clicking but I haven't had a chance to pull the cover off the DC box under the bed and check if it's the breaker.

I left the original wiring when I put in the Victron charger since I was replacing the WFCO 50A with another 50A charger, figuring AS knows what they're doing with 8AWG (ha, ha). Yes, good idea to beef up the wiring from the charger to the bus bar and the bus bar to the batteries (currently 6AWG). If I do that then I could put in a 60A breaker or so as you suggest.
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Old 05-02-2024, 09:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_B01 View Post
Performance. Based on 2 x 100ah battle born lithiums (200ah) at 80% charge, my victron shunt measured a charge rate of 20-25 amps on shore power. It’s a 60A charger/converter, so I’m not sure if the discrepancy is due to the batteries already having 80%, or whether the gauge or length of wiring from the factory is a limiting factor. It does fully charge the batteries, so that box is checked.
I'd think the batteries are still bulk charging at 80%, so you should see more current. However, as @Richard commented about my problem, the wire they use from the charger to the bus bar is pretty marginal. Since I moved the batteries inside, I have a much shorter run than you so that helps in my case. But I'm committed to replacing this with beefier wire sooner than later.
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Old 05-02-2024, 01:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKim View Post
I hear clicking but I haven't had a chance to pull the cover off the DC box under the bed and check if it's the breaker.

I left the original wiring when I put in the Victron charger since I was replacing the WFCO 50A with another 50A charger, figuring AS knows what they're doing with 8AWG (ha, ha). Yes, good idea to beef up the wiring from the charger to the bus bar and the bus bar to the batteries (currently 6AWG). If I do that then I could put in a 60A breaker or so as you suggest.
Breakers/fuses are typically sized to protect the wiring, so yes - if you increase the wiring size you should be able to increase the fuse size. Check with the converter's manual and see if they have a recommended breaker/fuse size.
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