Orion XS Engine Shutdown settings on 2022 Navigator

[MRA]

I have a new Orion XS 12-21V|50A|Non-isolated installed in a 2023 International 25FBT equipped with Battleborn LiFePo4 batteries and a 2022 Lincoln Navigator. The XS Engine shutdown detection believes that my engine is hardly ever running. So obviously I have some things set incorrectly; here are my settings:


Alternator type: Smart Alternator
Start voltage: 14.00
Delayed start voltage: 13.30
Delayed start voltage delay: 120s
Shutdown voltage: 13.10
Is this because the “Shutdown voltage” is set too high?


Thanks!
MRA

[3OnOurWay]

Not sure this helps since we are a MH and not a TT But here goes a few pics. I did have to refine mine since when our solar panel was trying to charge battery. Orion xs ( which is set to always on) saw the boost age and jumped the gun to push power to house batteries.

I know there is a lengthy Orion XS thread here that maybe helpful and quite a few reviews on YouTube that may help for TT

[foobar]

Need more info on your setup before we can provide the best advice.

Are you using the 7-pin power wiring for your power connection. If so, the navigator will disable power to the 7 pin connector when the ignition is off. In this scenario, you can disable ignition detection in the Orion XS as it isn't necessary. You will also need to limit the output current to 18A as the 7-pin wiring can't handle more than that.

If you have added heavy duty wiring to your Navigator battery terminals and routed this to an Anderson plug on the rear of your vehicle, you will need the engine detection algorithm.

The Lincoln will alternate between 13v and 14v output depending on what the Lincoln battery bms thinks it's battery state of charge is.

To get the Orion XS to handle the 13v alternator situation (this will be output voltage the majority of the time in order to avoid overcharging the Navigator battery), change your settings to the following:

Alternator type: Smart Alternator
Start voltage: 13.00
Delayed start voltage: 12.30
Delayed start voltage delay: 120s
Shutdown voltage: 12.10

Please take a screen shot of the XS input and output current and voltages when it is running. If the input voltage is below 12.1, the settings above will need to be adjusted.

[foobar]

You might find the following info to be useful. I cut-n-pasted from my response to another thread on a similar concern ():

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyPro View Post
Hello, everyone. Wondering all you experts out there could take a look at my Orion settings...does something seem amiss or could be adjusted to make it work properly? FYI, I am the OP of this thread, and have the Ford F-150 Powerboost. On my maiden voyage with the Orion installed, it was confirmed to be in Bulk Charge mode. SOC was 62% on departure...on arrival, after 350 miles of driving, SOC was 63%. Huge disappointment. So I am open to any suggestions..THANK YOU!!
Hi BogeyPro.

I had similar experiences with respect to the Victron Orion 12v-12v 18A DC-DC on both my Cayenne and recently on my new 2023 Ford F350.

I documented how I analyzed the situation and came up with some settings that work well in a related thread on airforums. I bet these settings will work much better for you than your current settings. Look through the thread and hunt for the postings by foobar.

Hopefully this link works:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ed-245081.html

To make it easier on everyone reading this thread, I copied the key contents from the other thread above and include them below.

Begin cut-n-paste from the "other thread":

Here is what my settings are for my 2023 F350 Diesel Lariat with the Lariat Ultimate Package and the Victron Orion-Tr isolating 12v-12v 18A dc-dc charger are. I will try and explain my rationale for the settings as best as I can.

First note: The default values for the "smart alternator" option on the engine start/stop detection settings page simply do not work. You will need to modify these parameter values, which will change the pull down option setting to "user defined" automatically once you change one of the parameters on this settings page.

Let's get started....

The trucks smart alternator appears to output either 13v or 14v based on my limited testing so far.

So I set the start voltage on the engine start/stop detection settings page to 13v.

In case the voltage drops after the truck is started, I set the delayed start value to 12.6v. This was an arbitrary choice on my part as I never saw less than 13v from the output of the smart alternator.

I left the delayed start delay value alone.

The next setting is very important. I set the shutdown voltage to be 8v. It's important that this value is less than the minimum input voltage lockout value. The value here doesn't matter as long as it is less than or equal to the lockout voltage value since the F350 uses a relay to disconnect the 7 pin power from the trucks 12v system when you turn off the ignition.

Why does this value need to be less than the lockout voltage value? I initially had it set to be 13.2v. Then I noticed that the voltage on the input to the dc-dc dropped to 13.2v. Hmm, so I dropped it to 12.5v and then 11.5v. And... Drum roll please... The Orion input voltage dropped to 12.5v and 11.5v respectively AND the DC power entering my battery bank according to my smartshunt and cerbo GX also increased proportionally!!

What was happening is the Orion was essentially cutting off the output current once the input shutdown voltage was reached. If the shutdown voltage value is higher than the minimum lockout voltage OR is higher than the voltage drop induced by the Orion input current, it effectively throttles the Orion output current because the output current shuts off once the Orion input shutdown voltage is reached!. Hopefully this makes sense. So, I figured the best value for the shutdown voltage was a value less than the minimum lockout voltage. This allows the Orion to reach a full 18A output.

As for the input voltage lockout parameter, you want the voltage set to be less than the minimum voltage the Orion will experience when it is producing the maximum output current. Setting this is a trial and error exercise, but low values don't really cause any harm as the potential range of input current is well within the maximum safe joule heating limit for the tow vehicle wiring (this is true for the 18A Orion, but it is probably not true for the 30A Orion).

So, a value of 9v for the input lockout voltage and 8v for the shutdown voltage allowed my Orion to output the maximum wattage into the battery (220w-240w, temperature dependent) via my 2023 Ford F350.

I set the restart value on the lockout voltage page to the minimum voltage the F350 seems to generate in my limited testing so far (i.e. 13v). I might need to tweak this value and the start and delayed voltage parameter values later based on additional observation of the trucks system behavior.

I hope this is accurate and helps others with their setting choices.

I forgot to mention that my voltage at the input of the Orion settled at 10.35v when the F350 voltage was 14v and the Orion output current was at the maximum value. So 3.65v drop along everything feeding the Orion.

End of cut-n-paste from the other thread.

BogeyPro, please try the following settings:

Engine shutdown detection page:
-Use "User defined" settings
- Start Voltage = 13v
- Delayed Start Voltage = 12.6v
- Delayed start voltage delay = 120s
- Shutdown voltage = 8.00v

Input voltage lock-out page:
- Lockout voltage = 9.00v
- Restart value = 13.00v

The settings above allowed my Orion to produce the maximum 18A into my lithium battery bank. And I'll bet these settings will work well on your F150 PowerBoost too as the 12v systems are independent from the PowerBoost architecture and are most likely the same across Fords truck model lineup (F150's and Super Duty trucks).

Last notes: there is still a bit of idiosyncratic behavior that I haven't had a chance to resolve. If my battery bank is fully charged, the Orion won't pull any current from the F350 and the F350 coughs up a warning message when I start the ignition that goes something like: the trailer battery isn't charging or isn't present. If this happens, the F350 doesn't energize the 7 pin power relay and the Orion isn't functional. Other Ford truck owners have reported something similar when then batteries reach a fully charged condition while driving and the Orion stops pulling current from the tow vehicle. The truck will then disable the 7 pin power relay and charging stops (I haven't yet experienced this issue as I haven't had much towing time with the new truck).

[MRA]

Thank you for your reply.

Originally Posted by foobar

Are you using the 7-pin power wiring for your power connection.

Yes I am.

Originally Posted by foobar

If so, the navigator will disable power to the 7 pin connector when the ignition is off. In this scenario, you can disable ignition detection in the Orion XS as it isn't necessary.

When the Navigator is not running, the input to the XS reads 0v, so yes this is the case. I was just concerned that odd things would happen when the Navigator was running but the alternator was putting out low current.

Originally Posted by foobar

You will also need to limit the output current to 18A as the 7-pin wiring can't handle more than that

Do you mean the wiring harness on the AS? Because the doc on my Navigator indicates that it is wired to push 30amps to the 7 pin (and is indeed fused as such).


Thanks!
MRA

[foobar]

Originally Posted by MRA

Thank you for your reply.






Yes I am.





When the Navigator is not running, the input to the XS reads 0v, so yes this is the case. I was just concerned that odd things would happen when the Navigator was running but the alternator was putting out low current.





Do you mean the wiring harness on the AS? Because the doc on my Navigator indicates that it is wired to push 30amps to the 7 pin (and is indeed fused as such).


Thanks!
MRA

Hi MRA.

Most vehicles are not wired to handle 30A through the 7pin power pin. You are one of the lucky ones.

It's debatable whether or not the 7 pin plug and receptacle can handle that much current without overheating (melting, etc). There have been documented cases of the plug melting.

Recommend monitoring the voltage reported at the input of the Orion XS. If the voltage drop is more than 3v, I would recommend setting the input current limit to something that keeps the voltage drop between 2 and 3 volts to reduce the potential heating of the plug and wiring in the truck and Airstream.

So for your situation, you would disable the ignition detection and set the input current limit to 30A max, and perhaps less.

[MRA]

Originally Posted by foobar

If the voltage drop is more than 3v

This is interesting - but how would I know? Alternators are notorious for putting out a range of voltages depending upon engine load; none of which are the nominal 12v that most people associate with automotive electrics. I suppose I could take a reading at the alternator with my multi-meter and compare it to what the XS reports. I would be shocked if it was less than a 3v drop in a worst case scenario with the engine good and hot in July at Furnace Creek. (and worst case is what I would plan for)

Originally Posted by foobar

I would recommend setting the input current limit to something that keeps the voltage drop between 2 and 3 volts to reduce the potential heating of the plug and wiring in the truck and Airstream.

That is excellent advise. My gut tells me to set the input no higher than 25amps and be very happy with the ~300Watts that that would deliver. I think I will do the multi-meter test - wish I had mine with me now (not something I usually bring camping) as I am en-route to Monument valley, and after an afternoons drive across Nevada, it should be close enough to the worst case for this.


Cheers,
MRA

[foobar]

Originally Posted by MRA

This is interesting - but how would I know? Alternators are notorious for putting out a range of voltages depending upon engine load; none of which are the nominal 12v that most people associate with automotive electrics. I suppose I could take a reading at the alternator with my multi-meter and compare it to what the XS reports. I would be shocked if it was less than a 3v drop in a worst case scenario with the engine good and hot in July at Furnace Creek. (and worst case is what I would plan for)

That is excellent advise. My gut tells me to set the input no higher than 25amps and be very happy with the ~300Watts that that would deliver. I think I will do the multi-meter test - wish I had mine with me now (not something I usually bring camping) as I am en-route to Monument valley, and after an afternoons drive across Nevada, it should be close enough to the worst case for this.


Cheers,
MRA

Nice trip. Enjoy. We are in your area at the moment. We leave Great Basin National Park this morning to camp at Capitol Reef National Park for a few days before we head to Valley of the Gods (that's just a few miles from monument valley).


As for alternator voltage, my 2023 and 2024 F350's put out 13v or 14v, depending on what the trucks bms thinks the battery state of charge is.

So voltage drop is easy to calculate from what the Orion XS reports.

My F350 will tell you what the alternator voltage output is on one of the dash information screens

[MRA]

How is the temp at Great Basin? We are in Reno now for the Baloon Races and it’s tripple digit fun. On the way here the aircon in the Navigator conked out. Driving through the desert without AC has a low WAF (wife acceptance factor). It’s under warranty, but no dealer could see us until 28-sep so ai went to an independent and paid to get it fixed

[JeffKim]

Sorry to borrow the thread, but if the XS doctor (@foobar) is in, I have an issue with the XS possibly, mentioned here in the XS thread.

I have the XS installed powered by our Audi Q7 set to 15A input. I'm observing that starting with our lithium batteries charging in bulk the XS is putting out something in the 15A range, but after an hour or so and the batteries still charging (60% or so), the charger output keeps dropping so that it's only doing 5A. It's not shutting down. The conjecture is that the car or the alternator is throttling back the charging or should I be messing with some settings on the XS?

One thing I didn't think to try was shutting down the car A/C and see if there was too much demand so it was throttling back. Also, I think my vehicle is similar and shuts off the 7-pin, so I don't need the shutdown detection, so I'll try disabling that.

[foobar]

Originally Posted by MRA

How is the temp at Great Basin? We are in Reno now for the Baloon Races and it’s tripple digit fun. On the way here the aircon in the Navigator conked out. Driving through the desert without AC has a low WAF (wife acceptance factor). It’s under warranty, but no dealer could see us until 28-sep so ai went to an independent and paid to get it fixed

Ouch. Not fun driving without tow vehicle a/c right now. With the high pressure heat dome in place over the SW USA, the desert temperature is scorching hot pretty much everywhere.

But, altitude matters (I need a T-shirt with that logo). Our great basin campsite was at 7800ft elevation. So while the drive over to the great basin national park was 105F in the shade, our campsite had high temperatures around 81F and low temperatures around 50F. It was quite pleasant except the heat dome trapped a bunch of wildfire smoke from northern CA and Nevada and the haze really limited the views of the great basin and the night sky. Other than that, it was a great camping location. Lehman cave is a recommended tour.

[MRA]

Originally Posted by foobar

…altitude matters (I need a T-shirt with that logo)

🦜 Queue a slightly modified Jimmy Buffet song




🎼 It's those changes in altitudes, changes in attitudes… 🎶 Nothing remains quite the same ♫

[foobar]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

Sorry to borrow the thread, but if the XS doctor (@foobar) is in, I have an issue with the XS possibly, mentioned here in the XS thread.

I have the XS installed powered by our Audi Q7 set to 15A input. I'm observing that starting with our lithium batteries charging in bulk the XS is putting out something in the 15A range, but after an hour or so and the batteries still charging (60% or so), the charger output keeps dropping so that it's only doing 5A. It's not shutting down. The conjecture is that the car or the alternator is throttling back the charging or should I be messing with some settings on the XS?

One thing I didn't think to try was shutting down the car A/C and see if there was too much demand so it was throttling back. Also, I think my vehicle is similar and shuts off the 7-pin, so I don't need the shutdown detection, so I'll try disabling that.

Hi Jeff, I responded in the other Orion XS thread. Figured that other folks might benefit from the answer too and that was the best place to respond.

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by foobar

Hi Jeff, I responded in the other Orion XS thread. Figured that other folks might benefit from the answer too and that was the best place to respond.

Thanks! Got it.