No power in the AS, while connected to shore power

[Fernway]

Hi forum,

We just returned from a week long trip out west to Yellowstone and Tetons. Camper worked great, until the last day. While connected to shore power, we noticed the lights became very dim, fans were running slow, no AC and the battery was registering 8.9 volts - again, while connected to shore power. I checked all circuit breakers and fuses, everything checked out OK.

A camp neighbor (Steve, from California (who reads the forum daily)(Hi, Steve)) suggested it was an inverter issue or converter issue (I hear there's a difference). This was also suggested from the AS service tech who I chatted with over the phone.

Before I go any further, I am NOT electrically savvy. I'm convinced that any deep tinkering beyond checking fuses or breakers will result in the camper exploding. Irrational fear? perhaps... but in my mind - too rational!

Moving on - I did locate the inverter, which on the 19cb is under the bed. I noticed there was a button on the inverter which was in the "OFF" position, along with message stating the "pushbutton must be in the OUT position for remote operation" whatever that means... I did press the button to put the inverter ON, and it did start up with information appearing on the screen, along with a fan which started to run. I would assume I found my problem, but I'm not too certain (read above). Why would this button be off? Unless it pops like a GFCI outlet? Should this be in the ON position?

I attached an image on the inverter for reference.

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

[Hermes]

An inverter converts battery 12V power from the batteries to 110V power to feed certain AC outlets.

It's the converter that converts 110V shore power to 12V to feed the trailer's 12V circuit, its main circuit. This looks like converter problem. After a while your batteries won't be charged if the converter is not working, unless they are being charged by a solar system.

If your batteries are fully charged and you disconnect from shore power everything 12V should work normally. Then if you plug into shore power, disconnect the batteries, then the converter should feed the 12V circuit so that all works normally, and if it doesn't then there is a converter problem.

[1StreamDream]

these things are difficult to troubleshoot/diagnose over chat sessions or e-mail, there are many variables to contend with, so keep that in mind. Here is my first guess, based on your description. You said you were connected to shore power, but are you sure that shore power was actually providing you 120VAC ?? It seems very possible that although you were plugged in all week, perhaps at some point in the week your camp spot circuit could have lost power, and at that point you start running off your 12V battery for all the essentials. Without realizing this condition, you could have depleted your 12V battery to exceedingly low voltage, to the point of complete discharge. A second option with a similar consequence might be the transfer switch in your trailer isn't functioning, and even with 120VAC shore power connected, the 12V battery still supplies your power, and the converter/charger doesn't do anything to replenish the battery, so same consequence, the battery gets fully depleted. My simple check is when I connect to shore power, there is about a 30 second delay, then an audible click, and the microwave oven becomes powered. If you connect to shore power that is known active, and your microwave is "on" after this 30 second delay (clock display is on) then your transfer switch is working, and the next thing to check from there is if your converter/charger is putting out 12VDC. If your microwave does not appear to be operational, I think your prime candidate is the automatic transfer switch. If you don't have a microwave in your trailer, use any 120VAC appliance, like a small fan or desk lamp, plugged into a non-inverter outlet, to perform the same test. Hope that helps you.

[Fernway]

Originally Posted by 1StreamDream

these things are difficult to troubleshoot/diagnose over chat sessions or e-mail, there are many variables to contend with, so keep that in mind. Here is my first guess, based on your description. You said you were connected to shore power, but are you sure that shore power was actually providing you 120VAC ?? It seems very possible that although you were plugged in all week, perhaps at some point in the week your camp spot circuit could have lost power, and at that point you start running off your 12V battery for all the essentials. Without realizing this condition, you could have depleted your 12V battery to exceedingly low voltage, to the point of complete discharge. A second option with a similar consequence might be the transfer switch in your trailer isn't functioning, and even with 120VAC shore power connected, the 12V battery still supplies your power, and the converter/charger doesn't do anything to replenish the battery, so same consequence, the battery gets fully depleted. My simple check is when I connect to shore power, there is about a 30 second delay, then an audible click, and the microwave oven becomes powered. If you connect to shore power that is known active, and your microwave is "on" after this 30 second delay (clock display is on) then your transfer switch is working, and the next thing to check from there is if your converter/charger is putting out 12VDC. If your microwave does not appear to be operational, I think your prime candidate is the automatic transfer switch. If you don't have a microwave in your trailer, use any 120VAC appliance, like a small fan or desk lamp, plugged into a non-inverter outlet, to perform the same test. Hope that helps you.

Not completely sure what the shore power output was (I didn't have my multimeter), but my surge protector read OK. To confirm whether it was shore power or the camper, I connected the camper to my generator (Champion 3400w DualFuel) and the results were the same - dim lights, no AC.

Interestingly, when I connected to the generator, my surge protector indicated "open ground". This wasn't indicated when I was connected to shore.

I do the same, if the microwave is on - I'm good. In this case, the microwave clock was on while connected to shore.

I'm leaning towards a converter issue...

I agree that diagnosing this over chat/email isn't the best, and I do appreciate your advice and help on this!

[1StreamDream]

Originally Posted by Fernway

Not completely sure what the shore power output was (I didn't have my multimeter), but my surge protector read OK. To confirm whether it was shore power or the camper, I connected the camper to my generator (Champion 3400w DualFuel) and the results were the same - dim lights, no AC.

The only thing I cannot reconcile based on your updates is the fact that when you were on shore power, your Microwave clock was "on" but when you connected the generator you say "no AC". Are you meaning no 120VAC there, or you mean no air conditioning ? Keep in mind you have the same (approx) 30 sec delay for the trailer to actually energize, so you have to allow that process to complete, but if you mean no 120VAC (no power to the Microwave) after waiting for that process, that might be the transfer switch not working correctly. You should not need an inverter/converter for the normal 120VAC appliances (or outlets) to energize when on shore power. If the transfer switch were the problem, your inverter/converter will not have any power either, explaining why the battery would deplete after some time.

I have not been in a situation where I tried to power my trailer when the 12V battery was fully discharged, I suppose there is a chance that is also causing some strange consequence, you might try re-charging the 12V battery with a portable battery charger and see if that restores some normalcy to any of your systems or behaviors ... beyond that it seems like you are going to need a pretty good electrician to further your cause on this one.

[1StreamDream]

Originally Posted by Fernway

Not completely sure what the shore power output was (I didn't have my multimeter), but my surge protector read OK. To confirm whether it was shore power or the camper, I connected the camper to my generator (Champion 3400w DualFuel) and the results were the same - dim lights, no AC.

The only thing I cannot reconcile based on your updates is the fact that when you were on shore power, your Microwave clock was "on" but when you connected the generator you say "no AC". Are you meaning no 120VAC there, or you mean no air conditioning ? Keep in mind you have the same (approx) 30 sec delay for the trailer to actually energize, so you have to allow that process to complete, but if you mean no 120VAC (no power to the Microwave) after waiting for that process, that might be the transfer switch not working correctly. If you have a 20A to 30A adapter, you can do that same test at home in your driveway, using a standard 120VAC outlet as your source power. You have to be careful with electrical load management, probably can't (or shouldn't) run the air conditioner, but you can power the microwave that way.

I have not been in a situation where I tried to power my trailer when the 12V battery was fully discharged, I suppose there is a chance that is also causing some strange consequence, you might try re-charging the 12V battery with a portable battery charger and see if that restores some normalcy to any of your systems or behaviors ... beyond that it seems like you are going to need a pretty good electrician to further your cause on this one.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by Fernway

Interestingly, when I connected to the generator, my surge protector indicated "open ground". This wasn't indicated when I was connected to shore.

The open ground is NORMAL with most portable generators and may prevent the surge protector/EMS from letting power through. To "fix" this issue you need a neutral/ground bonding plug for the generator.

[Fernway]

Originally Posted by 1StreamDream

these things are difficult to troubleshoot/diagnose over chat sessions or e-mail, there are many variables to contend with, so keep that in mind. Here is my first guess, based on your description. You said you were connected to shore power, but are you sure that shore power was actually providing you 120VAC ?? It seems very possible that although you were plugged in all week, perhaps at some point in the week your camp spot circuit could have lost power, and at that point you start running off your 12V battery for all the essentials. Without realizing this condition, you could have depleted your 12V battery to exceedingly low voltage, to the point of complete discharge. A second option with a similar consequence might be the transfer switch in your trailer isn't functioning, and even with 120VAC shore power connected, the 12V battery still supplies your power, and the converter/charger doesn't do anything to replenish the battery, so same consequence, the battery gets fully depleted. My simple check is when I connect to shore power, there is about a 30 second delay, then an audible click, and the microwave oven becomes powered. If you connect to shore power that is known active, and your microwave is "on" after this 30 second delay (clock display is on) then your transfer switch is working, and the next thing to check from there is if your converter/charger is putting out 12VDC. If your microwave does not appear to be operational, I think your prime candidate is the automatic transfer switch. If you don't have a microwave in your trailer, use any 120VAC appliance, like a small fan or desk lamp, plugged into a non-inverter outlet, to perform the same test. Hope that helps you.

Originally Posted by 1StreamDream

The only thing I cannot reconcile based on your updates is the fact that when you were on shore power, your Microwave clock was "on" but when you connected the generator you say "no AC". Are you meaning no 120VAC there, or you mean no air conditioning ? Keep in mind you have the same (approx) 30 sec delay for the trailer to actually energize, so you have to allow that process to complete, but if you mean no 120VAC (no power to the Microwave) after waiting for that process, that might be the transfer switch not working correctly. If you have a 20A to 30A adapter, you can do that same test at home in your driveway, using a standard 120VAC outlet as your source power. You have to be careful with electrical load management, probably can't (or shouldn't) run the air conditioner, but you can power the microwave that way.

I have not been in a situation where I tried to power my trailer when the 12V battery was fully discharged, I suppose there is a chance that is also causing some strange consequence, you might try re-charging the 12V battery with a portable battery charger and see if that restores some normalcy to any of your
systems or behaviors ... beyond that it seems like you are going to need a pretty good electrician to further your cause on this one.

Yes, when connected to shore, the microwave clock was on (I did not run run the microwave, however). When I connected my generator, I expected the camper to return to normal operations - I was mainly looking at our lights, which remained dim. As far as the AC goes, the fan was running, but the compressor wasn't kicking in and the temp was rising.

Once home, I did connect to the home power using my 20a-30a adapter. Everything does seem to operate, including the AC and microwave, but the when I check the battery volts on the onboard system, the volts registered 11.8 and were dropping. I've done this many times at home, and the volts would normally read 13.5.

Also, the battery did climb back from sure death while it was towed. When I left the campground, the battery was 8.9v, after a nine hour drive it reached 11.8v. So the battery is receiving a charge from the truck, but not from shore power.

I have connected a trickle charger to regain full charge to the battery - or at least attempt to. So far, it's only climbed to 12.0 volts, per the onboard monitor and my multimeter. Considering I only have a battery tender, not a charger, I'm not sure if the tender will regain a full charge for both batteries...

The only thing we did differently this trip was connecting a Norcold portable freezer to the airstream outlet when it was connected to shore power. I would have normally plugged this in directly to the outside power supply, but within bear country, they suggested that wasn't smart... Not sure if this would have been too much for the 30a service to supply, but again, everything worked great for the first 10 days...

I also installed new batteries. Marine grade batteries with the same specs from Napa Auto. I did check the water level, as I've had experience with new batteries dropping the water level initially. They were down a little, but not enough to expose the coils.

At a loss...

Thanks again for your insight!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, a couple of things:

1) Taking batteries below 12V is not a good idea. Getting them down to 9V or below is in the "doing damage" range. The longer they stay there the more problems you can create.

2) There is a breaker that feeds the converter / charger. It would be a good idea to see if that breaker has tripped. The way to do this is to turn it off and then turn it back on again. If it "kicks" as you do this, it has tripped again.

3) As noted above converters and inverters are completely different things. Inverters *use* battery power. Running one is a really great way to flatten a battery in a hurry.

4) Not all batteries are made equal. Some of the "generic" versions aren't really that great. They should be low cost and that is a plus. Just don't expect quite the level of performance out of them as a fancier version. You do need a deep discharge version. Avoid the ones that claim to be all things for all people .....

Fun !!

Bob

[Fernway]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Ok, a couple of things:

1) Taking batteries below 12V is not a good idea. Getting them down to 9V or below is in the "doing damage" range. The longer they stay there the more problems you can create.

2) There is a breaker that feeds the converter / charger. It would be a good idea to see if that breaker has tripped. The way to do this is to turn it off and then turn it back on again. If it "kicks" as you do this, it has tripped again.

3) As noted above converters and inverters are completely different things. Inverters *use* battery power. Running one is a really great way to flatten a battery in a hurry.

4) Not all batteries are made equal. Some of the "generic" versions aren't really that great. They should be low cost and that is a plus. Just don't expect quite the level of performance out of them as a fancier version. You do need a deep discharge version. Avoid the ones that claim to be all things for all people .....

Fun !!

Bob

Thanks Bob!

responses:
1) running the battery that low was never intended, they depleted while connected to shore power. This is the issue.
2) One of the first things I checked were the breakers, none tripped.
3) Noted. Yes, I never put the inverter on while connected to shore. And rarely do when off grid.
4) Yeah, I'm concerned this might be where my troubles began... Not sure how or why

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by Fernway

Yes, when connected to shore, the microwave clock was on (I did not run run the microwave, however). When I connected my generator, I expected the camper to return to normal operations - I was mainly looking at our lights, which remained dim. As far as the AC goes, the fan was running, but the compressor wasn't kicking in and the temp was rising.

Once home, I did connect to the home power using my 20a-30a adapter. Everything does seem to operate, including the AC and microwave, but the when I check the battery volts on the onboard system, the volts registered 11.8 and were dropping. I've done this many times at home, and the volts would normally read 13.5.

Also, the battery did climb back from sure death while it was towed. When I left the campground, the battery was 8.9v, after a nine hour drive it reached 11.8v. So the battery is receiving a charge from the truck, but not from shore power.

I have connected a trickle charger to regain full charge to the battery - or at least attempt to. So far, it's only climbed to 12.0 volts, per the onboard monitor and my multimeter. Considering I only have a battery tender, not a charger, I'm not sure if the tender will regain a full charge for both batteries...

The only thing we did differently this trip was connecting a Norcold portable freezer to the airstream outlet when it was connected to shore power. I would have normally plugged this in directly to the outside power supply, but within bear country, they suggested that wasn't smart... Not sure if this would have been too much for the 30a service to supply, but again, everything worked great for the first 10 days...

I also installed new batteries. Marine grade batteries with the same specs from Napa Auto. I did check the water level, as I've had experience with new batteries dropping the water level initially. They were down a little, but not enough to expose the coils.

At a loss...

Thanks again for your insight!

With this info sounds like it's your converter. Could be not getting power into it (breaker tripped) or a problem getting power out of it (blown fuse). Otherwise the converter quit working.

[Fernway]

Hey guys,

Posting an update to my power issue. I had an electrician friend guide me and my multimeter through the converter to test for functionality. Converter death has been determined.

So, now I know how to proceed. First step - contact Airstream. We just exited our warrantee by a few months (of course), but I'm hoping they offer a grace period. My friend who offered his help had a similar issue with his Airstream. The difference was his lasted 15 years, ours only 3... Pretty ridiculous.

If I have no luck with AS, I's like to replace the converter with a better one (3 years is certainly not stellar performance). Does anybody recommend a better converter?

[Roadhoop]

https://www.bestconverter.com/

Talk to Randy...

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Roadhoop

https://www.bestconverter.com/

Talk to Randy...

Hi

There are a number of folks you can call up and talk to on the phone. The key is to buy from a person and not from some random "source" on Amazon. You very much want to be able to get somebody on the line when you have a question.

Note that this does not guarantee things will work out fine, (they very much may not). It only improves your odds.

Bob

[takeiteasy]

This may not pertain to your dim lights issue, but I just had the same problem with my Honda 2200 generator (open ground indication on surge protector).


As another mentioned, here's what solved it for me:


https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...g-model-44400/

Originally Posted by Fernway

Not completely sure what the shore power output was (I didn't have my multimeter), but my surge protector read OK. To confirm whether it was shore power or the camper, I connected the camper to my generator (Champion 3400w DualFuel) and the results were the same - dim lights, no AC.

Interestingly, when I connected to the generator, my surge protector indicated "open ground". This wasn't indicated when I was connected to shore.

I do the same, if the microwave is on - I'm good. In this case, the microwave clock was on while connected to shore.

I'm leaning towards a converter issue...

I agree that diagnosing this over chat/email isn't the best, and I do appreciate your advice and help on this!

[Native143]

Originally Posted by Fernway

Yes, when connected to shore, the microwave clock was on (I did not run run the microwave, however). When I connected my generator, I expected the camper to return to normal operations - I was mainly looking at our lights, which remained dim. As far as the AC goes, the fan was running, but the compressor wasn't kicking in and the temp was rising.

Once home, I did connect to the home power using my 20a-30a adapter. Everything does seem to operate, including the AC and microwave, but the when I check the battery volts on the onboard system, the volts registered 11.8 and were dropping. I've done this many times at home, and the volts would normally read 13.5.

Also, the battery did climb back from sure death while it was towed. When I left the campground, the battery was 8.9v, after a nine hour drive it reached 11.8v. So the battery is receiving a charge from the truck, but not from shore power.

I have connected a trickle charger to regain full charge to the battery - or at least attempt to. So far, it's only climbed to 12.0 volts, per the onboard monitor and my multimeter. Considering I only have a battery tender, not a charger, I'm not sure if the tender will regain a full charge for both batteries...

The only thing we did differently this trip was connecting a Norcold portable freezer to the airstream outlet when it was connected to shore power. I would have normally plugged this in directly to the outside power supply, but within bear country, they suggested that wasn't smart... Not sure if this would have been too much for the 30a service to supply, but again, everything worked great for the first 10 days...

I also installed new batteries. Marine grade batteries with the same specs from Napa Auto. I did check the water level, as I've had experience with new batteries dropping the water level initially. They were down a little, but not enough to expose the coils.

At a loss...

Thanks again for your insight!

Was your battery disconnect switch turned on while you were hooked up to shore power? If not you’re not charging your batteries

[LilPeanut]

If you ever suspect (or want to check) for a faulty converter circuit, plug into proven good shore power and then the voltage at the batteries. They should be around 13.4 to 13.7. The converter puts out more than the battery will have at the battery resting state to ‘push’ power into the battery. If it is below that, the converter is not on, has a blown fuse, or is bad in some way. Batteries in their normal state will not be that high (other than lithiums) and converters that send lower voltage will not charge the battery properly.

[One Smith]

Originally Posted by Fernway

Hey guys,

Posting an update to my power issue. I had an electrician friend guide me and my multimeter through the converter to test for functionality. Converter death has been determined.

So, now I know how to proceed. First step - contact Airstream. We just exited our warrantee by a few months (of course), but I'm hoping they offer a grace period. My friend who offered his help had a similar issue with his Airstream. The difference was his lasted 15 years, ours only 3... Pretty ridiculous.

If I have no luck with AS, I's like to replace the converter with a better one (3 years is certainly not stellar performance). Does anybody recommend a better converter?

We just picked up our new, 2022 FC 25FB and had the dealer add more solar and lithium batteries. So, we have 2, BRAND NEW, NEVER USED, Lifeline AGM batteries for sale. PM me if interested, I’ll make you a deal!

[Foiled Again]

You LOOKED around the breakers on the converter. (Been there, did that too) but those breakers are a bit on the freaky side. To reset a breaker you first push it all the way down, then pull it back up. The breakers usually are visibly popped, but not always. So I suggest you RESET every one... and of course it never hurts to test and reset breakers at the post. If you have a long enough cord, you can also try plugging in at a neighbors post to see if that changes the situation in your trailer. 30 amp plugs on the post do tend to get loose, and a 50 to 30 amp "dog bone" adapter can be an instant fix.
Do leave the inverter OFF except during a power outage or when boondocking - and when you use it do so sparingly. Recharge phones and computers. No hair dryers, toasters, etc.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

You LOOKED around the breakers on the converter. (Been there, did that too) but those breakers are a bit on the freaky side. To reset a breaker you first push it all the way down, then pull it back up. The breakers usually are visibly popped, but not always. So I suggest you RESET every one... and of course it never hurts to test and reset breakers at the post. If you have a long enough cord, you can also try plugging in at a neighbors post to see if that changes the situation in your trailer. 30 amp plugs on the post do tend to get loose, and a 50 to 30 amp "dog bone" adapter can be an instant fix.
Do leave the inverter OFF except during a power outage or when boondocking - and when you use it do so sparingly. Recharge phones and computers. No hair dryers, toasters, etc.

Hi

If you cycle a GCFI breaker with the power off, most of them will not reset. If you have a breaker tripped upstream from the GCFI, this is an easy mistake to make. Do they *all* work this way? Who knows. The ones in our trailer most certainly do.

Bob