Moving AC and DC distribution panels closer together

[Daytonacoupe]

Hello; last year I put the shell back on a 1986 34’ Limited after completing extensive frame repair, new axles, new aluminum wheel wells, and a Coosa subfloor. Then we got tied up with a house reno and now it’s winter, but I’ve got most of what I’ll need to rewire the trailer, except warmer weather (some caulking to do before the insulation can go in). The old wiring 12V and 120v runs are still where they had been as I don’t want to lose the template. Inner skins remain off.

The intention is to replace the 120V wiring with new 12/3 marine stranded, to clean up/refresh all of the 12V wire nut and pigtailed junctions with Wegos, and repair any damaged wire. I’ll also rerun those 12V critters through several gromet-ed conduits (separate the 7 pin from the 12v runs) vs leaving everything jammed into one backbone as they had been.

I’ve still not decided on 30 or 50 amps for the AC power, and will stick with one air conditioner. I’ll need to source a new fuse panel and converter, and have been reading up on what folks have been doing.

Looking at the factory setup the fuse panel and converter were between the batteries at the front of the trailer, whereas the AC cord travelled through the floor at the back of the trailer to a junction box, then to the rear AC breaker panel that was hidden within the rear end cap. I’d like to add an AC external receptacle that will accept a detachable power cord to shore power (vs. a fixed cord that is stored in the bumper because that bounced out during a night drive through Montreal and has ceased to be), and then run a wire from the external receptacle directly to the breaker panel, vs. that extra step of a junction box first.

Is there a reason why I should not add that AC receptacle near the front of the trailer, avoid the junction box with a feed directly to the breaker panel (other than tripping hazard, extra weight considerations), then move the AC breaker panel next to the DC fuse panel? Intuitively it makes sense to have one power centre at one location, but electrical is not my thing (I’ll hire a tech/electrician for the final connections), so appreciate the brain trusts’ opinion on whether I’m missing a key code or logic fact before I make these changes to the wiring runs.

I’m sure somebody has done this? Comments are appreciated. Cheers.

[57Vintage]

Based on my experience in the western US, which may not be accurate where you are, is most shore power boxes are to the rear of the site or in the middle. If you put your receptacle to the front be sure your power cord is long enough, especially with a 34'.

I'd suggest the middle as a compromise.

Would like to see photos. Don't see many 34's being redone.

[Daytonacoupe]

Originally Posted by 57Vintage

Based on my experience in the western US, which may not be accurate where you are, is most shore power boxes are to the rear of the site or in the middle. If you put your receptacle to the front be sure your power cord is long enough, especially with a 34'.

I'd suggest the middle as a compromise.

Would like to see photos. Don't see many 34's being redone.

Thank you for the reply. Do you forsee any problems putting the receptacle in the middle or back and running that internal wire to the front where the AC breaker panel could be? My key goal is keeping the electrical together.

A few photos are attached; shell off and tied down for a winter after internal bracing overkill (we live in a wicked wind zone), Coosa on and a below pic of the frame (replaced 70% of the main rails, cross members, and every outrigger except one, new wheel wells are installed (this was the last thing I did before the deep freeze set in), and a photo of what the OSB looked like when we peeled back the cosmetic laminate flooring, and the ultimate cause of the shell off.

[Aerowood]

Are you going to install a 30 amp or upgrade it to 50 amp?

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[Daytonacoupe]

I'm undecided on whether to upgrade with 50 or reinstall 30 amps. The trouble with research is the many differing opinions on whether sticking with 30 is fine or going with 50 '...while you're in there...' is advisable.

[57Vintage]

Originally Posted by Daytonacoupe

Thank you for the reply. Do you forsee any problems putting the receptacle in the middle or back and running that internal wire to the front where the AC breaker panel could be? My key goal is keeping the electrical together.

I wouldn't think so. The fact that your panel is in the front, I would lean towards placing the receptacle towards the middle. If you're concerned about the run length.

I would throw out a suggestion to consider burying some of your runs in the belly pan. What I did was run pvc conduit to minimize how much I had to modify the original cabinets/woodwork for all the new wiring. This also allows you some latitude when the wiring has to be run (size/number). The one mistake I made was putting in 1" pvc. I'd suggest larger if it will fit. The one area I had some trouble with was the curb side running behind the stairs. The pvc junction box covers are left off and the box is level with the subfloor.



My controls are in the middle hidden behind the old panel heater by the door. The large junction box (on the curb side) is below the controls.



Keep in mind I have 4 tanks under the floor, but I spaced them out for an access area between tanks. The yellow marks are the tanks. The red marks are the conduit runs and the green lines are plumbing pipes for grey and black water.

[Eric 26 Argo]

I would agree to the middle placement of the plug. You mentioned that you were only going to have one AC unit so a 30-amp service should work. If you are thinking about traveling south of the Canadian border where you might experience 32c weather, you probably want to plan on two ACs and 50-amp service. I have a 26' with a 15000 BTU AC and it is about maxed when it gets that hot.

[Daytonacoupe]

57 Vintage; that is a super tidy setup for your wiring. Access for future work will be much easier. And the control access / setup is very nice!

Eric; I've done so much reading on the 30 vs 50 amp debate. After considering the pros and cons of each I'm going to stick with 30. I'll upgrade the AC wire to stranded marine, renew the grommets and electrical boxes, and will place the shore power interface at the street side centre and move the AC panel to the front. I'll build a cabinet to host the electrical components in one place, near the batteries, but it won't be as polished as 57Vintage. I'd like to do the segmented ends so the end caps won't be available to hide the panel/wiring.

Thanks for the comments!

Cheers

[Daytonacoupe]

The plan is to build a power centre in the front between the batteries to host the 7 pin junction, AC/DC panels, Sea Level Monitor, Converter etc.... Some have put it all in one place and the setup is tidy. I picked up a Blue Sea 8084 Distribution panel from a local marine supplier so now it has to be combined. This means the AC source panel will now be at the front vs the rear.

While I won't be doing any of the physical and final connections, I'd like to lay out as much as I can before hiring an electrician.

Funny how after you buy something the instructions reveal stuff that had been missed when reviewing the specs. Back to the question on where to put the shore plug? The panel forces one of two options; either install the plug within 10 feet of the AC panel, or if longer add a separate breaker to protect the wire run from the shore plug to the AC panel. This is in the Blue Sea instructions. In my case 10 feet would force the plug to the front 1/4 of the trailer, which isn't optimal. I've found a lot of info on marine sites that advocates strongly for not ignoring the added breaker.

So, I'll put the plug street\left side near the rear of the trailer, a foot or two of 10 guage marine 10/3 stranded to the AC Blue Sea 8077 Main 30A 120V Circuit panel, then a 10/3 run to the front AC/DC Main Distribution panel.

I'm adding this update to highlight the extra circuit breaker between the shore power plug and the AC panel. Whether it's needed or not appears to be controversial, and it's one of those risk/cost exercises. Somehow I missed this tidbit in my earlier reading.

Cheers....

[57Vintage]

Are you going to hard wire your surge protector (Progressive Dynamics?) or use a plug in at the shore power box? If hard wired I would suggest placing next to your external receptacle for shore power. It does make a little noise so I wouldn't place it adjacent to a bed.

It looks like you've chosen the same AC/DC panel from Blue Sea that I have. My only recommendation is make sure you have easy access. I tend to not turn on all circuits while camping. I leave the ones off not usually needed (i.e. water pump if on site water/macerator pump for emptying waste water) or until needed.

Since you're doing a full shell off I suggest you reconsider 50 amp service and 2 A/C units. It can get awfully hot in there just towing on a sunny day. Also think of it as a resale item. As Eric mentioned it does get hotter down south and if you go far enough humidity is another issue.

Not sure this helps you but I included my latest wire diagram. It may not meet your needs, but it might help you visualize the entire system. Note: I have EOH disc brakes so the actuator will look different than dexter electric.

[Daytonacoupe]

Thank you for the thoughts, as well as the diagrams. Your photos were the inspiration for the Blue Sea AC/DC panel. I've agonized over the 30 vs 50 amp pros/cons arguments, and for our use here in the great white and frigid North, we'll stick with 30.

The hard wired surge protector appears to be the way to go. We'd like to affix the shore power input in the rear bedroom as there's a great spot in a small cubby/night table at the foot of the bed(s) to accept the inside of the adaptor, the wiring loop, the 30 amp breaker (the one that's required as the AC panel/breaker is 30 feet away), and the surge protector. This makes whatever needs to be visible and accessible handy. Otherwise going forward takes me into the side bath, then the fridge compartment, then too far forward, and I don't want any electrical connections near potential water.

The AC panel will have to go at the front under the windows, and a dedicated box will be built. I hear you on the accessibility. This is going to require some changes as the front sofa bed was up against these windows/front wall, and what was behind the sofa into the front wall for the power centre was not only a mess, but was inaccessible. We may put the dinette / spare bed combo at the front, then the sofa on the street side front where the dinette had been.

Your diagrams are useful as a reference. Your system is complex and very tidy. We are not going with solar at this time, although I'll run wires in the wall from the power centre to the fridge compartment should we go that route in the future.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by 57Vintage

Are you going to hard wire your surge protector (Progressive Dynamics?) or use a plug in at the shore power box? If hard wired I would suggest placing next to your external receptacle for shore power. It does make a little noise so I wouldn't place it adjacent to a bed.

It looks like you've chosen the same AC/DC panel from Blue Sea that I have. My only recommendation is make sure you have easy access. I tend to not turn on all circuits while camping. I leave the ones off not usually needed (i.e. water pump if on site water/macerator pump for emptying waste water) or until needed.

Since you're doing a full shell off I suggest you reconsider 50 amp service and 2 A/C units. It can get awfully hot in there just towing on a sunny day. Also think of it as a resale item. As Eric mentioned it does get hotter down south and if you go far enough humidity is another issue.

Not sure this helps you but I included my latest wire diagram. It may not meet your needs, but it might help you visualize the entire system. Note: I have EOH disc brakes so the actuator will look different than dexter electric.

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