Lithium battery installation (safety & codes)

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Link to product?

Bob?

Sure; the one I am looking at below with one of the Youtube reviews:

https://www.litime.com/products/12v-...mart-bluetooth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ5Sy61w7D4

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I have some of their batteries that are used in various projects. They seem to work ok. They are now "a bit expensive" compared to a number of other folks.

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

I have some of their batteries that are used in various projects. They seem to work ok. They are now "a bit expensive" compared to a number of other folks.

Bob

Yes, but they have sales. Seem pretty good compared to BB or Dakota and some others that are 3x price. Walmart has these and many others, but price is better direct from mfg. with Vet discount. Wondering what else I will need to replace besides the converter...will existing wires from my 2017 work or not.

There are a couple posts here and from AS I have saved, so need to review.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Yes, but they have sales. Seem pretty good compared to BB or Dakota and some others that are 3x price. Walmart has these and many others, but price is better direct from mfg. with Vet discount. Wondering what else I will need to replace besides the converter...will existing wires from my 2017 work or not.

There are a couple posts here and from AS I have saved, so need to review.

Hi

Looking at them over "Prime Day", even with their sale vs the other guy's sale, they came in well above the low cost guys.

Is that bad? I'm not in any way claiming that it is. The only point is that if cost is the one and only driver, there are other options. While some of the cheap stuff gets knocks here and there, it does not *appear* that they fail / explode / disintegrate within the first year or two of use.

Since the cheap ones are now well *below* what we used to think was a reasonable price for an AGM (per battery and not per usable amp hour), do they need to last 20 years? Indeed on a "per usable amp hour" basis they are right in with those "on sale" no name flooded cells.

Bob

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Sure; the one I am looking at below with one of the Youtube reviews:

https://www.litime.com/products/12v-...mart-bluetooth

I installed the LiTime Group 24 smart batteries a few months ago. I have used them in a couple of week long dry camping trips. Very pleased with them. Bluetooth works well and avoids needing to wire in a shunt. Only issue was that I wired them as the OEM batteries were wired (linked together) and when one battery shuts down because it's depleted, both shut down. One battery always seems to deplete more rapidly than the other. Customer service said to wire both batteries to bus bars to avoid that outcome. I put in bus bars, but have not run one battery completely down since doing so.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Looking at them over "Prime Day", even with their sale vs the other guy's sale, they came in well above the low cost guys.

Is that bad? I'm not in any way claiming that it is. The only point is that if cost is the one and only driver, there are other options. While some of the cheap stuff gets knocks here and there, it does not *appear* that they fail / explode / disintegrate within the first year or two of use.

Since the cheap ones are now well *below* what we used to think was a reasonable price for an AGM (per battery and not per usable amp hour), do they need to last 20 years? Indeed on a "per usable amp hour" basis they are right in with those "on sale" no name flooded cells.

Bob

UB- what are the "other" Li brands you are mentioning? I thought the price on these was pretty good for what your getting. Appreciate if there are better/cheaper options out there too, with similar/same features...(bluetooth, safety shutdown, etc) Now you got me wondering...

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

I installed the LiTime Group 24 smart batteries a few months ago. I have used them in a couple of week long dry camping trips. Very pleased with them. Bluetooth works well and avoids needing to wire in a shunt. Only issue was that I wired them as the OEM batteries were wired (linked together) and when one battery shuts down because it's depleted, both shut down. One battery always seems to deplete more rapidly than the other. Customer service said to wire both batteries to bus bars to avoid that outcome. I put in bus bars, but have not run one battery completely down since doing so.

Thanks for the reply. What did you pay and where did you purchase? Do you have a picture also of the buss bar set up you mention with your wiring you can share?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

UB- what are the "other" Li brands you are mentioning? I thought the price on these was pretty good for what your getting. Appreciate if there are better/cheaper options out there too, with similar/same features...(bluetooth, safety shutdown, etc) Now you got me wondering...

Hi

I spent some time watching the Prime Day sales. A number of folks had 100AH LiFePO4 batteries on sale for < $200 each. I didn't take notes ( I forgot that CammelCammelCamel does not record Prime Day prices .... dumb me ... )

Even without the "sale days", a quick look at Amazon shows a dozen folks selling 100AH batteries in the $100 to $150 range. There's at least another two dozen selling them in the $150 to $200 range.

Do the names of any of those folks ring a bell? Pretty much not. If I *had* to pick one:

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Batte...s%2C135&sr=8-1

Probably would be the way I'd go. There are online reviews of their products. At $169 (right now ....), they aren't the cheapest of the cheap.

I don't recognize any of the < $150 folks. Others have observed that the return rates on the dirt cheap / no name batteries aren't all that bad .... I don't sell batteries so I have no access to that data.

Fun

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

I spent some time watching the Prime Day sales. A number of folks had 100AH LiFePO4 batteries on sale for < $200 each. I didn't take notes ( I forgot that CammelCammelCamel does not record Prime Day prices .... dumb me ... )

Even without the "sale days", a quick look at Amazon shows a dozen folks selling 100AH batteries in the $100 to $150 range. There's at least another two dozen selling them in the $150 to $200 range.

Do the names of any of those folks ring a bell? Pretty much not. If I *had* to pick one:

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Batte...s%2C135&sr=8-1

Probably would be the way I'd go. There are online reviews of their products. At $169 (right now ....), they aren't the cheapest of the cheap.

I don't recognize any of the < $150 folks. Others have observed that the return rates on the dirt cheap / no name batteries aren't all that bad .... I don't sell batteries so I have no access to that data.

Fun

Bob

thanks UB. Looking at this website, not clear on dimensions? ‎12.99"D x 6.77"W x 2.68"H No bluetooth means other measuring devices?
Also says "Passenger car" in the comparison chart below on this site. Don't mean to be picky, but what else did they miss on their advertisement/use description? I will look at additional info if I can find some usage info from users.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Thanks for the reply. What did you pay and where did you purchase? Do you have a picture also of the buss bar set up you mention with your wiring you can share?

I bought them directly from LiTime. Paid $309 each, but they are usually cheaper than that now. I see $290 now. Shipping was free. I used these busbars: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C6483RC...t_details&th=1 and this crimper to change to lugs in place of the auto style battery cable. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WNVSMPN...roduct_details

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Thanks for the reply. What did you pay and where did you purchase? Do you have a picture also of the buss bar set up you mention with your wiring you can share?

The picture.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

thanks UB. Looking at this website, not clear on dimensions? ‎12.99"D x 6.77"W x 2.68"H No bluetooth means other measuring devices?
Also says "Passenger car" in the comparison chart below on this site. Don't mean to be picky, but what else did they miss on their advertisement/use description? I will look at additional info if I can find some usage info from users.

Hi

Digging a bit more in the "under $150" category, the lowest legit / delevered price is $138. Everything below that is a scam of some sort.

The point here is *not* that you can buy a fine battery for $138. You are probably not getting the best of the best. However some of these batteries are made by the same folks as better known brands. Good luck sorting that out. The claim is that LiTime makes the Vater battery in the link above. Is that true? I have absolutely no idea.

Measuring device wise, you are no better / no worse off looking at voltage on a lithium than on a lead acid. The variables are a bit different, but you get a general idea on both of them.

For a minimum install, all you really need is one battery and a converter that works with lithium. Past that, it's all optional up grades that would also improve your original lead acid setup. If your converter already "does Lithium" then you are down to just the battery.

That $138 lithium is the equivalent of (more than) two flooded cells. (100 AH usable vs 80AH). If you are shopping for flooded cells these days, what you get for $69 each is every bit as risky and opaque as these low end lithiums.

Would *I* buy any of these low end lithium batteries for my RVs? Nope. I'll use them in other projects here or there. I'd like a bit more "trustworthy" device when I'm out and about. I also would not go with those flooded cells or other cheap lead acid options.

Bottom line: For a similar "risk factor", if you have the converter, lithium is the low cost option.

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Digging a bit more in the "under $150" category, the lowest legit / delevered price is $138. Everything below that is a scam of some sort.

The point here is *not* that you can buy a fine battery for $138. You are probably not getting the best of the best. However some of these batteries are made by the same folks as better known brands. Good luck sorting that out. The claim is that LiTime makes the Vater battery in the link above. Is that true? I have absolutely no idea.

Measuring device wise, you are no better / no worse off looking at voltage on a lithium than on a lead acid. The variables are a bit different, but you get a general idea on both of them.

For a minimum install, all you really need is one battery and a converter that works with lithium. Past that, it's all optional up grades that would also improve your original lead acid setup. If your converter already "does Lithium" then you are down to just the battery.

That $138 lithium is the equivalent of (more than) two flooded cells. (100 AH usable vs 80AH). If you are shopping for flooded cells these days, what you get for $69 each is every bit as risky and opaque as these low end lithiums.

Would *I* buy any of these low end lithium batteries for my RVs? Nope. I'll use them in other projects here or there. I'd like a bit more "trustworthy" device when I'm out and about. I also would not go with those flooded cells or other cheap lead acid options.

Bottom line: For a similar "risk factor", if you have the converter, lithium is the low cost option.

Bob

Thanks UB; feeling much better now after seeing the pics and posts by DCPS above yours...think thats what I am going to do. Need to get with Randy at Best Converters and get a new converter; my 6 year old Boondocker I purchased from him does not support LI, turns out....not too expensive for a new one and with the batteries, buss bar and new wires, I should be good to go.

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Thanks UB; feeling much better now after seeing the pics and posts by DCPS above yours...think thats what I am going to do. Need to get with Randy at Best Converters and get a new converter; my 6 year old Boondocker I purchased from him does not support LI, turns out....not too expensive for a new one and with the batteries, buss bar and new wires, I should be good to go.: blink:

I thought the LiTime bus bars looked nice (more expensive). I don't know if they are any better than the Amazon ones but seem more purpose built. Also, if you get the LiTime all the branding is the same which always makes for a more attractive battery box.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

I thought the LiTime bus bars looked nice (more expensive). I don't know if they are any better than the Amazon ones but seem more purpose built. Also, if you get the LiTime all the branding is the same which always makes for a more attractive battery box.

I did not see any "buss bars" on their site that looked anything like the one in DCPS pics? What am I missing?

Also, where to get the new wires? Amazon or?

[sfranklin]

For me, when buying from Amazon, if it is not sold by and shipped by Amazon, I take a look at the company by clicking the name in the right side. 9x out of 10, it's a Chinese company.

I get that most of the cells are made in China, but dealing with a BattleBorn or MillerPower seems, at least to me a better bet.

There are a few sayings that come to mind.....

You get what you pay for

A fool and their money are soon parted

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by sfranklin

For me, when buying from Amazon, if it is not sold by and shipped by Amazon, I take a look at the company by clicking the name in the right side. 9x out of 10, it's a Chinese company.

I get that most of the cells are made in China, but dealing with a BattleBorn or MillerPower seems, at least to me a better bet.

There are a few sayings that come to mind.....

You get what you pay for

A fool and their money are soon parted

I'd add "pay me now or pay me later".

It's the "fool and their money" part that I have trouble with. I think BB has a great reputation but are way overpriced, and especially if you're only going camping maybe 50 days a year and don't have that many duty cycles. I just don't see the value other than maybe it's like buying battery insurance.

Battery shopping is very confusing since the market seems to be changing daily, but I think there are decent quality batteries out there made in China but have a domestic presence like Weize, LiTime, and SOK among others. My HQSTs are doing just fine after two years. Just my opinion of course, I'm no battery expert, I know a little.

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I did not see any "buss bars" on their site that looked anything like the one in DCPS pics? What am I missing?

Also, where to get the new wires? Amazon or?

These are the ones I mentioned. @DCPS is using others which might be just as good, but the LiTime are geared towards battery hookups with a standard lug size.

I made my own cables from wire ordered from Windy Nation, who also have premade cables. A lot of people like Battery Cables USA who will make up any cable you want. They both might have a presence on Amazon as well.

[sfranklin]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

I'd add "pay me now or pay me later".

Love it, very true!

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Also, where to get the new wires? Amazon or?

I bought all wires from Amazon. I cut a couple to get the right length. I bought a set of lugs with heat shrink, also from Amazon. Returned wire I did not use.

The bus bars I bought are U.S. made and seem well made. The Li Time ones do have a slightly better rating (300 vs. 250 amps). I do like the removable openings. I do not like the four screws securing the cover. Mine release with two larger non-metallic nuts. Did not see where they stated dimensions.