How low can you go? (Batteries)

[Rich W]

Originally Posted by TravlinMan

I am editing this to say I reread that chart fifty times and I think mine's the same.

That's about how many re-reads and edits I had to make in creating the chart.

[Rich W]

Originally Posted by chaseav

Right. I have a new set of batteries in there now and am hitting the reset button on my diligence in taking care of them.

What battery type/brand did you buy?

What battery type/brand did you have originally?

If a lead-acid battery is left on a charger that does a 'trickle' charge it is constantly providing voltage, it never shuts off. OEM AS converters are like this, that's why you shouldn't leave them on shore power and the switch in Use or the acid will boil out, slowly, but it will. Once the plates are no longer covered, it's a downhill ride to dead city. (Immediate sulfation)

If the battery is not charged for several months at a time, it can also be damaged by sulfating. A battery needs to stay fully charged but not over or under charged. So some kind of battery monitoring tool needs to be used.

For my boat batteries I have a charger that individually monitors the battery state of charge for all 3 batteries. Even so, I have added a timer to allow the charger to come on only once a week for 30 minutes, during the off season. That way they cannot boil out the acid should one of them fail to reach full charge and shut off. My AS has a solar panel that keeps the batteries fully charged when in storage.

So yes, batteries can die within a year if they are constantly charging and never reach a maintenance level or go beyond it. They can die from sulfation if they are not kept fully charged. I've learned those painful lessons many times over with my cars and boat.

[SilverHouseDreams]

I'm sorry to add useless detail to this thread, but you are all making me appreciate the simplicity of my "old" 2011 AS that has a basic manual rotary disconnect switch from the factory. I was jealous of the fancy factory monitoring panels until I read these stories. I know exactly what my power system is doing and win, I don't need a 15 branch decision tree to figure it out Really gives me something to consider if we ever decide to buy bigger/newer, is it their quest to make the system idiot proof that made it appear to be designed by idiots?

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by Xipper

I'm sorry to add useless detail to this thread, but you are all making me appreciate the simplicity of my "old" 2011 AS that has a basic manual rotary disconnect switch from the factory. I was jealous of the fancy factory monitoring panels until I read these stories. I know exactly what my power system is doing and win, I don't need a 15 branch decision tree to figure it out Really gives me something to consider if we ever decide to buy bigger/newer, is it their quest to make the system idiot proof that made it appear to be designed by idiots?

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein

"The problem is that when you spend a great deal of time and effort engineering something that is foolproof, Mother Nature comes up with a better fool." Some astute, but forgotten engineer..

[chaseav]

Originally Posted by richw46

What battery type/brand did you buy?

What battery type/brand did you have originally?

I had the factory Interstates which wouldn't hold a charge (well) but lasted nearly two years. My dealer replaced them under warranty (great people) with Exide but we never got into "why" they were willing or able to. Those lasted the year. Now I have Autocraft batteries (I was buying them hastily in preparation for hurricane Irma) but I find it hard to believe much is in a brand name of a battery. They come with a one year warranty so that's a win.

Clearly what happened to me is that my batteries over charged and boiled out. Despite the fact that my owner's manual says my charging system will not do that. If I had it handy I'd quote it.

[chaseav]

Going on four (maybe five) days now at 12.4 volts with propane sensor fuse removed and subwoofer completely disconnected. Disconnect switch in the store (battery OFF) mode and no shore power connected.

[Mattirs]

How does one disconnect the subwoofer? I've looked and not sure which is the correct wire.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by Mattirs

How does one disconnect the subwoofer? I've looked and not sure which is the correct wire.

Mine has an on/off switch. The radio memory has a phantom draw too.

[dznf0g]

Depending on radio model, if you remove the faceplate, all or most of the radio and sub parasitic draw is eliminated. Mine has a simple push button to pop off the face.

[chaseav]

Originally Posted by Mattirs

How does one disconnect the subwoofer? I've looked and not sure which is the correct wire.

There are only three that went into mine. I unplugged them all but I believe it's the one that looks like an internet cable.

[Troutboy]

It depends on how old your rig is. My 2017 FC 23D and sun and radio don't draw phantom.

I still have a battery kill switch as that is the safest and easiest. No need to go unplugging and plugging in fuse. Quick switch, and all is off.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

It depends on how old your rig is. My 2017 FC 23D and sun and radio don't draw phantom.

I still have a battery kill switch as that is the safest and easiest. No need to go unplugging and plugging in fuse. Quick switch, and all is off.

If the radio has a lit face when turned off, it has a draw. Yes, the disconnect switch will eliminate it, but when dry camping and conserving mAhs, I'm pretty sure most don't want their disconnect engaged.

[Troutboy]

Again, on the newer units they must have solved this. It's a different type of radio and you have to turn it on.... even when dry camping. Same with subwoofer, it only draws when radio is on. I have checked both with amp meter etc.


Then again, solar solves all,of this as well.

[Adventure.AS]

The radio must draw power when off, otherwise it would lose the programmed stations.

[chaseav]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Then again, solar solves all,of this as well.

Hundred dollar battery disconnect switch mod... done.

I read your thread about your install. Very cool. I was thinking it might be in my wheelhouse right up until you were drilling through the roof and just missed a wire bundle. That WOULD have happened to me.

My Airstream lives in my garage 10 months out of the year so I could cover that thing in solar panels and it wouldn't do an once of good for me.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Depending on radio model, if you remove the faceplate, all or most of the radio and sub parasitic draw is eliminated. Mine has a simple push button to pop off the face.

With the "disco light show" on our Pioneer this applies to us, but other FC20 owners -- even from the same model year! -- have different radios.

You have to trace out all power feeds, and conditions, and find a solution for your trailer. Our sub-woofer goes off when we turn our radio off FWIW.

The late idroba installed a local on/off switch near his radio. [See PS2 and quote below.]

Good luck,

Peter

PS -- Our radio's memory will keep the pre-programmed stations for about 3 days even with the faceplate removed.
There must be some internal battery which permits this short-term storage. I imagine the manual has info on this, but the last time I tried to understand the manual [ . . . to turn off the "disco light show" . . . ], I gave up on the translation. Plus all custom configurations are lost every time you remove the faceplate!



PS2 -- idroba's post in another thread is quoted below. His wise advice and balanced temperament are missed.

Rest in Peace -- http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ba-150067.html
[See Post #40 for a photo of Rob]

[click on arrow in quote to go to the radio thread]

Originally Posted by idroba

CruzinDux, and others.

To better understand why the radio does what it does you first have to understand that it was built for use in a car or truck, it is not a specially made unit for an RV, and certainly not for an Airstream.

As designed by the maker, for a car the radio has two 12 volt input wires. One supplies the power to run the radio when the car is in operation, that is when the car key is on either in the running mode or accessory mode. It supplies the power to run the radio circuits and amplifier as well as the display. It switches on and off with the key. Thus the display shuts off every time the key is off. Works great in the car.

The other input wire is connected directly to the car 12 volt system in a location which is always hot. That is full time 12 volt power, never turned off unless the car battery is disconnected, as when it is changed for a new one. This wire controls the radio station pre sets, runs the clock (but not the clock display), and in general keeps the memory hot all the time. It takes relatively little power to do this, maybe 10 to 15 mA in many cases. Since the car is used frequently, the large car battery is not run down and stressed by this situation. It is recharged by the alternator, and the car can sit probably a month or so with no real issues. No lights are on in the display.

Now, when that same auto radio is put into an RV such as an Airstream, what does the manufacturer do with the two input wires? There is no Ignition key switch to allow things like the display lights to be turned off when not needed. So what normally happens is the two wires are hooked together and the display lights and clock (if the radio has a clock) are always on. Turn the radio off, the clock time displays. Unfortunately this can take a LOT more power 24/7/365. The display may take 100 mA to almost 1 full amp in the case of the disco/demo display on the Pioneer radio in question. In a car, the ignition switch turns the display off, not so in the RV, as there is no ignition switch. To further drive you nuts, the default mode, if the total power is removed, comes back on. In this case the default mode is the disco light display. So, if you remove all power from the radio, back to square one, like it was new out of the box.

In the Airstream all power is removed from the radio if the USE/STORE switch is placed in STORE and the trailer is not plugged into grid power. Now lets say you are storing the Airstream in a location where no grid power is available. You have the switch in STORE, all is shut down, you believe. And mostly it is. The radio is shut down and no power is being used by it at all.

But you stop in to check it out one day, and on entry, you hit the USE button so you can have some lights for a short time. That turns the radio on (in the default mode, the disco lights). It is behind a cabinet door and you don't see the lights on. You go out and forget to push the STORE mode. Or you deliberately say, hell, I am going to be back next week, and I didn't leave any lights on, so no big deal. But it is a big deal, the radio went active and is taking a full amp (the measurement on mine) to run the disco display which you could not see was activated. 24 amp hours a day will kill the batteries in a few days. If left on a month by accident, the batteries probably will be ruined and will not recharge properly, ever.

So, the problem Airstream faces is what to do? They are using a car radio in an application it was not designed for.

My solution is to put a switch on the radio so I can be sure that all power is shut off to both wires, and even if the U/S switch is accidentally or deliberately turned on there will be no detrimental affects. The downside is that the station memory is always removed, and that I have to reset the disco lights to off when I do want to use the radio. So, I have to remember how to do that, and as you know, it is not an intuitive process.

I hope this helps in understanding the Pioneer Radio dilemma. I am sure the Sony is similar. There is just no easy work around in this case, for Airstream or the Airstream owner.

[TravlinMan]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Again, on the newer units they must have solved this. It's a different type of radio and you have to turn it on.... even when dry camping. Same with subwoofer, it only draws when radio is on. I have checked both with amp meter etc.


Then again, solar solves all,of this as well.

I can confirm this bout the early 90's style Clarion M303 in my 2017 trailer. Removin the subwoofer entirely had no effect on my power draw, which I tested with an amp meter. Also removin the face plate does nothin for power draw. I ain't got a clue why that face plate is removable at all, do they really think anyone's gonna try and steal that cheap, outdated thing?

For me, solar was the answer to not havin to worry bout power draw.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by TravlinMan

. . . do they really think anyone's gonna try and steal that cheap, outdated thing?
. . .

No -- Airstream is too cheap and lazy to pick a non-auto great radio and install a real on/off switch IMO! They probably had a bunch of them sitting around, gathering dust, so they gave it to you to "enjoy."

If you ever meet up with another 2017 25' AS, the chances are good that it will contain a different radio.

[TravlinMan]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

No -- Airstream is too cheap and lazy to pick a non-auto great radio and install a real on/off switch IMO! They probably had a bunch of them sitting around, gathering dust, so they gave it to you to "enjoy."

If you ever meet up with another 2017 25' AS, the chances are good that it will contain a different radio.

Ha! Seems about right, Peter. I love my trailer but state-of-the-art it ain't!

[Dlbriggs]

Hi, I read this post on my phone and it had a chart of how the electricity flowed when connected to shoreline or not. I cannot seem to get it downloaded. It is a much needed reference tool.

Can I trouble you to either send it to me or tell me where I can find it to download?

Thank you!

David Briggs