Frank’s lithium battery and inverter upgrade

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Great point, just expanded my query with them to include comparison with the Venus GX in their analysis/ recommendation. Thanks!

Comparison can be found here in section 5:

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/venus-gx:start

Basically the only thing you loose is the built in LCD display... hence my curiosity regarding ease of direct browser connection via local LAN...

Let me know what AM Solar has to say.

[Troutboy]

Hmmmm. I’m not sure I need that fancy readout. I also just have Bluetooth on the BMV and solar charge controller. It works great on iPhone no cell service needed. Works while boondocking.

I’m such a tech geek, but I get everything I need with just the Bluetooth. Can’t see why I would want the Venus gx, what does it add besides eye candy?

I would keep the cash and use it elsewhere.

[wulfraat]

The main issue is that in a system where a multi-plus is deployed, its the multi-plus that determines SOC based on VE.Bus connectivity to the victron BMS (there is no need for a BMV shunt in the system).

Multi-plus hybrid inverters do not have a simple Bluetooth interface like the BMV - so if you want system data (such as SOC) you need to deploy a CCGX or Venus GX that integrates with the multi and other system components to present the data (visual or otherwise)

That’s my understanding anyhoo....

[Troutboy]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

The main issue is that in a system where a multi-plus is deployed, its the multi-plus that determines SOC based on VE.Bus connectivity to the victron BMS (there is no need for a BMV shunt in the system).

Multi-plus hybrid inverters do not have a simple Bluetooth interface like the BMV - so if you want system data (such as SOC) you need to deploy a CCGX or Venus GX that integrates with the multi and other system components to present the data (visual or otherwise)

That’s my understanding anyhoo....

Interesting Wulf, I don’t get that far into it. So is my SOC from the BMV no good?

[wulfraat]

No it’s fine and works well - just uses a different algorithm to determine SOC.

Just becomes redundant if you have a multi-plus. But then again with the multi-plus you need a GX Unit to access the data without a direct Ethernet connection to the box as the multi-plus does not have built in Bluetooth

I’m not sure why victron didn’t ‘smart’ enable the multiplus and make it compatible with the victron connect app.

I’m gonna talk with Lew again next week and ask his opinion. I want to make sure the install is future proof. Turns out 800watts of solar and 600amp hours of victron lithium with hybrid inverter is not... um... inexpensive ... so I want to ensure my setup is as future-proof as possible.

[Troutboy]

Makes sense, Lew mentioned last summer that a new multiples was coming out with blue tooth I think. Future proof seems impossible these days. I think the batteries, charger, and inverter you are getting will last a long time. I sure am loving mine!

[wulfraat]

Reached out to AM solar and asked about pros and cons of the venus GX vs CCGX... here was the response:

“I recommend the CCGX. I think it is a much more refined product for mainstream customers. The Venus GX doesn’t seem to have a nice interface or be very user-friendly. Since the Venus GX came out, I have only heard of two customers who like it. Both are software engineers. One of them, who I recently met, is an engineer at Apple who was able to completely hack the Venus GX to make his own interface for a permanently mounted iPad. I have no idea how he was able to do this.

So, unless you are a software engineer looking for a project, the CCGX is the best way to go.”

[Rocinante]

Very helpful, thanks!

[Papou]

Originally Posted by lewster

From the latest buzz that I have received from Victron, they are in final stages of building an updated successor to the CCGX that will have integrated blue tooth and will allow you to monitor ALL of your Victron connected components from a smart phone.

They hope to have some in beta testing by August. I'll keep you all posted if/when they become available.

Good Day Lewster,

A friend of mine will have a Victron "solution" with LiFePO4, solar, MPPT, Multi-Plus with a Venus GX installation in next April. I do not know if we are talking of the same product?

Michel

[fran&frank]

Well that wasn't a ringing endorsement from AM Solar for the Venus GX was it. I've been considering the CCGX or Venus GX because I haven't invested in the multicontrol for my multiplus inverter or any blue tooth dongles for my battery monitor or solar controller yet. The attraction of the Venus GX as it's only a little more than buying those three separate devices and a lot cheaper than the the CCGX.-- Frank

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

Well that wasn't a ringing endorsement from AM Solar for the Venus GX was it. I've been considering the CCGX or Venus GX because I haven't invested in the multicontrol for my multiplus inverter or any blue tooth dongles for my battery monitor or solar controller yet. The attraction of the Venus GX as it's only a little more than buying those three separate devices and a lot cheaper than the the CCGX.-- Frank

No kidding. Good to have some sound advice though.

So in the end I’m going to have Lew install smart MPPT, smart BMV (712), Smart lithium’s, multi-plus, CCGX with WiFi LAN dongle.

So I’ll be able to use the victron CCGX for full system observation without internet, online VRM portal for local and remote observation and configuration when internet is enabled, and victron connect mobile app via Bluetooth to view specific system components such as mppt charging status and SOC via the BMV-712.

[Paprika]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Good points, very good points. Does it all work as expected via the app if you’re camping where there is zero cell signal?

With my Victron setup, the Smart Lithium batteries, BMV-712, and BlueSolar 100/50 solar controller all talk to the VictronConnect iOS app via Bluetooth, so no cell signal is required.

I suppose I could tie all this to Victron's servers via my usual internet connection (Wi-Fi/Verizon), but since I'm a full-time RVer, I don't really have a need to monitor my rig's electrical system from long distances.

[Rocinante]

Exactly right, Paprika. No need to monitor over long distances or eat up my LTE bandwidth via unnecessary communications between my system and the Interwebs.

wulfraat, sounds like you've got a great plan going. Will let you all know what I hear from AM Solar when they respond. She bounced my query over to their engineering team to come up with an answer. I suspect I'll wind up with the CCGX and a WiFi dongle, as you are also planning.

[Paprika]

One important thing I should have mentioned: even if you have not yet installed a Victron-based system, you can see how one works on your own phone or tablet. The VictronConnect app has a built-in demo library that includes all compatible Victron devices, and simulates each device. Even before buying any Victron hardware, you can download the app for free and play with it to get a realistic feel for what it'll do.

Once you've installed the app, tap the three parallel lines at upper left to get a menu of features and commands. The second one is "Demo Library." Tap that, and you'll see the various categories: solar chargers, battery monitors, inverters and so on. From there you can get a list of all products in each category, and tapping a product name (such as MPPT 100/50) will get you screens that simulate what you'd see in a working setup with that device.

It costs nothing to try out the VictronConnect app this way, and it'll give you a good idea of how well that approach will work with the specific Victron products you have in mind. Maybe you'll prefer the Color Control GX, but this is a good way to find out whether the app/Bluetooth approach is right for you.

[Rocinante]

Thanks for the tip on demo mode for the app. Very cool!

Meanwhile, this is what I got from AM Solar, assuming I have interpreted their response correctly:

• The BMV-712 is needed to get battery data and it sends that data to the CCGX. The CCGX does not have a shunt for measuring current, but the BMV-712 does.
• CCGX does not currently work with the Bluetooth dongle (you probably knew that)
• Regarding the Venus GX, I got the same response - not really ready for mainstream unless you are a software engineer and want to write your own interface.
• One option is to route all the cables from the charge controller, inverter and BMV-712 to where a CCGX might be installed, and just wait until the new bluetooth-enabled CCGX comes out, whever that is. In the interim, the system would perform fine via Bluetooth on the battery monitor and charge controller, and the hybrid Victron inverter would then use a wall mounted Digital Multicontrol.

Given that last suggestion re: wiring everything up anyway, I think we'll go ahead and launch our system with the BMV712 and the CCGX (with a WiFi dongle) so we can see everything on the display and also access it via bluetooth or WiFi when I want to. At this point I feel like I'm all about a "no compromises" solution, and there's no such thing as too much information coming out of my system. Also, given that labor is consistently the biggest expense I'm looking at, adding a CCGX once I've already paid them to run the wires shouldn't be that big a deal.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Given that last suggestion re: wiring everything up anyway, I think we'll go ahead and launch our system with the BMV712 and the CCGX (with a WiFi dongle) so we can see everything on the display and also access it via bluetooth or WiFi when I want to. At this point I feel like I'm all about a "no compromises" solution, and there's no such thing as too much information coming out of my system. Also, given that labor is consistently the biggest expense I'm looking at, adding a CCGX once I've already paid them to run the wires shouldn't be that big a deal.

Good call - that’s my plan as well. Don’t forget that with this approach you also have VRM portal access when your LAN has internet connectivity.

How many amp hours and solar are you installing? We are doing 800watts of solar and 600amp hours (two 300ah victron units).

Fun times. Big bill up front but this will set us up for energy independence for at least the next decade given the lifespan of this platform. Might as well go all in, do it once and do it right

[Rocinante]

We’re looking at 400AH of batteries and 400-500 watts of solar, depending on how much they can get up there. We’re also having them pre-wire and upgrade the solar controller so we can add portable panels if we want. More is always better, of course!

[Photobum]

I have 400 watts in the roof and 400ah in four lithium ion batteries (Battle Born). Seems adequate. It has been a while since I fired up the generator...

I seem to be charging between 45 and 60 ah a day,

[Paprika]

"We’re looking at 400AH of batteries and 400-500 watts of solar, depending on how much they can get up there."

Sounds like a great boondocking setup, Rocinante! For what it's worth, I had no trouble fitting six 100 W Renogy Eclipse panels on my International 27FB. The Eclipse panels are 40.8" x 20.7"--the smallest 100 W panels I know of.

The trade-off is that they are substantially more expensive per watt than Renogy's standard 100 W panels: currently $230 apiece vs. $130 for the larger 47.3" x 21.3" standard panels. But if you want to get maximum wattage on your roof, the Eclipse panels are a good way to achieve it.

[Rocinante]

All I have to say to that is size matters! I’ll pay extra for smaller 100-watt panels if they have ‘em. [emoji6]