Frank’s lithium battery and inverter upgrade

[fran&frank]

So just a couple of updates on our Lithium battery project. Did a in the driveway test of the system by running one air conditioner off the battery. Now I know our 340AH Lithionics lithium battery is not really adequately sized for extensive use of the AC, but I ran it for something over a 1/2 hour (unfortunately I did not precisely time it) and brought the battery down to around 50%. In some more relevant real world experience on our recent trip to the Texas coast, when boondocking the battery would be at about 85 to 90% first thing in the morning and back up to 100% by late afternoon when charged from our 4 100 W solar panels. That's based on use of the overhead fan, water pump, lights, a little TV at night, etc. So far so good!--Frank

[Troutboy]

Interesting Frank, do you have the easy start installed? So I ran a "test" by accident. I had my 320 amp hour batteries at 100%, it was a very sunny day, I have 500 W solar on roof. I left the AC on by accident, and it ran all day while I was gone. I had it set high (70), ambient temps got close to 80-85. It ran for 6 hours and drained the battery to 24-26%.

I think the solar augmented it and let it run that long recharging when it stopped.

Like you said, this essentially is not a good plan, to run AC on batteries.

[fran&frank]

Rich, no easy start installed. I was under cover so there was no solar augmentation. Also had the temperature turned way down so AC ran continuously with compressor engaged the whole time, and as I said was at least a half hour and could have been closer to an hour. But on the positive side based on both our experiences it does look like limited use of AC could be reasonable even with our modest lithium batteries. --Frank

[fran&frank]

Just did some math to see if my observations were reasonable. My Lithionics battery is advertised as 4224 watt hours. A post on airforums suggested a 13500 btu ac would use 1600 watts per hour. So my battery could potentially run the ac for 2.6 hours, but of course you would not want to completely discharge the battery. Think I'll try it again and more precisely record what happens. --Frank

[Troutboy]

Frank, that sounds like a good idea. I can't remember if you have the BT dongle for the battery monitor. If you don't, it really makes doing these kind of analysis easy. I'll take some screen shots of tap the info you get next weekend if you don't have it.

This afternoon before I went back to storage, I did some simple tests on amps required to run everything in my trailer. I'm going to post under another thread the amp consumptions for all to see.

Your quick calcs above are spot on. But augmentation can add quite a bit if the sun cooperates!

[fran&frank]

Rich I haven't committed to getting the BT dongle yet. Not sure if I want to have use my phone to check the system, or for $30 more the remote monitor supposedly displays similar info. Sure would be nice if all the Victron components could simply be connected by Cat5 wire and use a single BT dongle and be able to control everything from any blue tooth capable device--phone or laptop, but my understanding is the Multiplus inverter is not BT compatible. I guess you can link everything to the Victron Color Control GX panel but I'm not ready to drop > $500 on it, but as other have described--its really cool. As you well know, two BT dongles and the Multiplus remote panel are going to add up to $200. I guess at a minimum I should get the dongle for the mppt controller.--Frank

[lewster]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

Rich I haven't committed to getting the BT dongle yet. Not sure if I want to have use my phone to check the system, or for $30 more the remote monitor supposedly displays similar info. Sure would be nice if all the Victron components could simply be connected by Cat5 wire and use a single BT dongle and be able to control everything from any blue tooth capable device--phone or laptop, but my understanding is the Multiplus inverter is not BT compatible. I guess you can link everything to the Victron Color Control GX panel but I'm not ready to drop > $500 on it, but as other have described--its really cool. As you well know, two BT dongles and the Multiplus remote panel are going to add up to $200. I guess at a minimum I should get the dongle for the mppt controller.--Frank

From the latest buzz that I have received from Victron, they are in final stages of building an updated successor to the CCGX that will have integrated blue tooth and will allow you to monitor ALL of your Victron connected components from a smart phone.

They hope to have some in beta testing by August. I'll keep you all posted if/when they become available.

[fran&frank]

Thanks Lew I was hoping you would weigh in. So I think I'll wait a bit and see what develops or maybe just buy a single BT dongle for now--Frank

[greghoro]

Gonna jump in a little late with a question.

As BoldAdventure put it, when the Li battery temperature falls below freezing, you shouldn't charge it but can discharge it, with a loss of performance.

So, a theoretical question based on a Li battery installation in the external battery box with no way to warm it. Is there a way to augment the battery for powering the furnace or refrigerator while traveling in subfreezing weather through the use of the 12V feed from the tow vehicle or roof mounted solar without charging the Li battery? Want to stretch the Li battery as much as possible by tapping into other 12V sources and have the battery be the last source of power.

Or to rephrase the question; is it possible to wire the system such that, in subfreezing weather, it provides 12V power into the trailer from the Li battery, 12V tow vehicle line and rooftop panels and NOT charge the Li battery?

Yes, installing the Li batteries inside or adding battery warmers would mitigate this but that's outside the scope of my question.

I’m thinking of these scenarios:
- - Driving during the day, both the 12V tow vehicle feed and solar panels can keep things going with maybe a little help from Li battery
- - Driving a night, have only 12V tow vehicle feed, so the Li battery might have a bit more slack to take up.
- - Stopping at night for a bite to eat, relying solely on the Li battery.


Greg

[Rocinante]

Oh, great, we're scheduled at AM Solar early next month for Victron "everything," but later this year they're already going to obsolete that sexy color control panel?

Oh, well. Maybe we'll ask them whether there's some way to future-proof our install in case we want to upgrade our CCGX control panel to the latest greatest thing next year.

Originally Posted by lewster

From the latest buzz that I have received from Victron, they are in final stages of building an updated successor to the CCGX that will have integrated blue tooth and will allow you to monitor ALL of your Victron connected components from a smart phone.

They hope to have some in beta testing by August. I'll keep you all posted if/when they become available.

[Paprika]

"I guess you can link everything to the Victron Color Control GX panel but I'm not ready to drop > $500 on it"

I had a Color Control GX in my last RV. In my Airstream, I just use my iPhone or iPad and Victron's VictronConnect app to monitor and control my whole system, and I like it a lot better. Much more information, easier navigation (tap and swipe vs. clicking through various screens and menus with the Color Control GX's buttons), and I can use it anywhere around my rig.

The Color Control GX does have a pretty block-diagram display that shows everything at a glance, whereas with the VictronConnect app I look at one device at a time. That's a point in favor of the Color Control GX. But it's about the only one I can think of. On the other hand, to use it I had to run wires through my cabinets, make a cutout to install it... and I could only look at it right there. With the VictronConnect app I can check my system's status while sitting at my dinette, in the bedroom, or even outside in a lawn chair... and there were no wires to run or cutouts to make.

On balance, I find the Bluetooth-based system much more useful. And since almost all of Victron's newer products have Bluetooth already built in, and older ones can be made compatible by adding their inexpensive Bluetooth dongle, it seems like a no-bfrainer to go that route rather than spend $500 on the Color Control GX.

[Rocinante]

Good points, very good points. Does it all work as expected via the app if you’re camping where there is zero cell signal? Seems it should, but would love to hear from someone, (hopefully you?)with experience. If the app is really better, happy to save cash on the CCGX and the labor to install it. I’ll also get input from the folks at AM Solar, of course, but I eagerly welcome input from other experienced users and installers.

[wulfraat]

I have a full victron install going in with lewster in May.

I am going back and forth on the CC GX and the Venus GX. Both upload to the VRM portal for online access.

Both also allow you to connect directly to the device without internet access via the local LAN and invoke “remote console” mode. The CCGX requires Ethernet connection to the LAN switch vs the Venus which has Ethernet or direct wireless connectivity.

My understanding is that when you access the Venus or CCGX directly over the LAN via web browser it provides a virtual display that would normally be displayed on the CCGX lcd panel. This is a different direct network access to the device as compared to the victron connect app (which is device specific Bluetooth for specific system components like your BMV, MPPT, smart battery, etc) and the VRM app (which is an alternative to the web based VRM portal and requires round trip internet access via the victron web servers).

I am leaning towards the Venus GX unit but would like to know if anyone can confirm that the direct web-based LAN access fully replicates the CCGX display? My thought is to essentially mount a permanent iPad with wireless LAN access and use that as a dedicated display for the Venus GX vs using the CCGX.

Ps - I already have a gigabit internal network in the airstream that can access internet WAN via either mobile network or external wireless network....

[Rocinante]

Thanks, wulfraat, that sounds like a tasty alternative. If I can get local LAN access to my CCGX device via my browser, that would be fun. I already do the same for my router. Maybe I could instruct my CCGX to connect to the LAN hosted by my router so I can quickly log in, even if I don't have an incoming LTE signal. Will investigate that option!

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Thanks, wulfraat, that sounds like a tasty alternative. If I can get local LAN access to my CCGX device via my browser, that would be fun. I already do the same for my router. Maybe I could instruct my CCGX to connect to the LAN hosted by my router so I can quickly log in, even if I don't have an incoming LTE signal. Will investigate that option!

You can - one of 2 ways:

(1) RJ45 LAN cable that physically plugs into the back of the CCGX. Other end plugs into your switch. Then pull the assigned IP from your switch and point your browser to that up address.

(2) add a Wireless module (usb dongle) from victron and join the CX on to your LAN wirelessly... then point your browser to the CCGX IP address....

Let me know if you can get that direct browser access to work! Eager to see what the direct access interface looks like

[Rocinante]

Will do. Just sent email to AM Solar to start a discussion on this topic, asking what their clients are preferring and what they actually recommend vs. just installing the CCGX I think we want. From reading the literature, I agree that it should be simple, via the WiFi dongle, to connect up to the CCGX management portal from our laptop or an iPad via a WiFi LAN hosted by our router, even if we aren't connected to LTE and the Internet.

[wulfraat]

Remote console (direct browser-based LAN connection to the CCGX and Venus GX) should look something like this....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IzG2adWP5Hc

So in the end I’m thinking that this is probably the way to go (Venus GX) and not bother with a dedicated CCGX lcd display with additional labor to install / route wires for....

The venus also has Bluetooth chipset so in time they will activate this via the firmware for Bluetooth connectivity.... finally - the venus is a non-intrusive install.... it can be tucked away out of site and if new hardware becomes available in a few years it will be easier to swap out vs a dedicated CCGX lcd with cutout in your wall....

[fran&frank]

After procrastinating almost a year since my install about whether to get the Color Control GX I'm glad I did procrastinate, because I think I'm going to go ahead with the Venus GX now!

[wulfraat]

I think I’m convincing myself to get the venus GX too hahahah... there is something attractive about the CCGX “appliance” that just works and gives you system status at a glance with its built-in display... but I think you loose some flexibility and “futureproofness”.

[Rocinante]

Great point, just expanded my query with them to include comparison with the Venus GX in their analysis/ recommendation. Thanks!