Converter with adjustable output?

[DCPAS]

I am in that group of people that want to switch from lead acid batteries to LifePO4 but have limited knowledge of electricity and a relatively poor skillset in re-doing wiring. I want to keep the batteries in the battery box and have batteries with bluetooth so that I get individual status and don't have to wire in a smart shunt.

I thought a Discover Blue DLB-G24-12V was perfect. It is group 24 size, made by a reputable well established company, is of a modern design with prismatic cells and replaceable BMS, and has bluetooth. So, I started reading about it. I discovered that its bulk charge voltage range is 13.8 - 14.2V. That is below all the lithium converters I could find, which all seem to be 14.6V or above. Discover Battery told me that it does not recommend using a 14.6V charger because above that level the BMS is set to go into protect mode. The PowerMax PM3 has a fixed charge mode where you can set a constant voltage and Battle Born has an example where you set it in fixed mode and then put it back into 3 stage mode as a setup for its batteries. https://battlebornbatteries.com/powe...po4-batteries/

I am thinking adjusting that to 14.2V, but then the absorption stage will likely be 13.6V which is below the recommended 13.8V.

Is there anyone knowledgeable with thoughts on that approach? Is there any harm in just using a fixed 13.8V charge? I am concerned about that one because we store the trailer plugged in for maybe up to six weeks at a time. Anyone know of a converter with more adjustability?

[waninae39]

the best converter/inverter is the Victron Multiplus
https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers

it has tones of features, well designed and very reliable. it can scale also
check out the features on the link

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by waninae39

the best converter/inverter is the Victron Multiplus
https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers

it has tones of features, well designed and very reliable. it can scale also
check out the features on the link

That replaces the inverter as well, correct? I think it falls outside my abilities to install. That said, which one is suitable for a simple two 100ah battery system? And does it replace the converter in the sense that it supplies 12V when not charging the batteries?

[waninae39]

yes. remove the stock converter.
install the Multiplus or Multiplus II

i can accept two AC in ie post power and generator.
it has two AC outs. we tie all AC loads to AC1 ,except the aircon, it goes to AC2. if we loose AC in , the Multiplus auto runs off the battery and powers all AC and DC loads, except AC2 which shuts off

my 1st AS had 1x 100 AH lion
the 2nd AS will have 700AH lion
both ran off the same Multiplus
see my update schematic

it runs seamlessly. it runs fine with any battery type and also talks nicely and integrates with other Victron products like the MPPT solar and and the battery protection devices.

They also have a free web based portal to monitor/control your devices as well as free smart phone app to monitor and control

Note, i don't get paid by them, I'm just a happy client

[nryn]

I replaced a (dead) OEM converter with the Boondocker 1260CL which is lithium-compatible. Many folks on the forum use these.

There is a small potentiometer on the side which you turn to adjust output (monitoring with a multimeter). Very easy install and setup and when I swapped out my AGMs to lithium it was a breeze to change the output setting.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by nryn

I replaced a (dead) OEM converter with the Boondocker 1260CL which is lithium-compatible. Many folks on the forum use these.

There is a small potentiometer on the side which you turn to adjust output (monitoring with a multimeter). Very easy install and setup and when I swapped out my AGMs to lithium it was a breeze to change the output setting.

Did you leave it on a fixed constant voltage or set it and then switch it back to three stage?

[Jcondon]

I also use the Boondocker 1260 CL. Fixed output set at 14.4. All the time. The BMS will manage the charge profile.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by Jcondon

I also use the Boondocker 1260 CL. Fixed output set at 14.4. All the time. The BMS will manage the charge profile.

Thanks. Is there any issue with leaving the converter plugged in all the time with the fixed output?

[richard5933]

If you want one which if fully programmable and multistage there is also the Victron Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 120-240V.

https://www.victronenergy.com/charge...t-ip43-charger

[Jcondon]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Thanks. Is there any issue with leaving the converter plugged in all the time with the fixed output?

It depends on your battery management system or BMS. My solar charges my batteries fine unless I am camping so I unplug mine and let the solar do it’s thing.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by richard5933

If you want one which if fully programmable and multistage there is also the Victron Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger 120-240V.

https://www.victronenergy.com/charge...t-ip43-charger

Thanks. If I am reading the manual right, to use it as a 12V power supply, you lose the charging stages. If that is right, it wouldn't seem to work as a substitute for a converter unless you wanted to charge with a constant voltage.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Thanks. If I am reading the manual right, to use it as a 12V power supply, you lose the charging stages. If that is right, it wouldn't seem to work as a substitute for a converter unless you wanted to charge with a constant voltage.

I think that using it as a power supply means without the batteries connected.

The Victron Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger range are also suitable for use as a DC power supply, to power equipment without a
battery connected (or while also connected to a battery).

All multistage converter/chargers will have a voltage which changes during their use, and they are also used to operate the 12v devices while turned on - this is their converter function.

My Progressive Dynamics is either at 14.6v or 13.6v while charging, and it also serves as a converter during that time supplying power to the 12v devices in use.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

First off, a weird max voltage on your batteries should be a big red flag saying something is wrong here. Just what they did .. who knows without a deep dive. Since it's an outfit nobody uses, there is no data from other folks.

With a fixed voltage out of the converter / charger, the batteries will be at that voltage most of the time ( = whenever you are plugged in and charged up ). If you mainly run on shore power, the batteries will see max voltage a lot.

Max voltage will not be reduced to something. else by the BMS. It is an on/off sort of thing. It can completely shut things down ( = no voltage out of the battery ) if it sees a fault. When it does that, you are into "trouble zone". The rest of the time it either just sits there or goes into equalize mode.

On most setups, equalization is at near max voltage. The whole 14.4 to 14.6 V thing is there to trigger equalization. For various reasons it gets done this way.

Once equalization is done, there is no reason to be at max. It serves no useful purpose. The batteries will have just as much charge at 13.6V as at 14.6. What does change is the strain on the batteries. They wear out quicker at 14.6V. If you mostly sit there at max, your batteries will not last as long.

Battery life is measured as the point that they hit 80% of rated capacity. This is not the same as them catching fire or going dead. Without careful measurements, it's tough to know when they hit this point. Most RV folks never notice when their batteries hit 80% ( and technically have reached end of life). Still, it's better to hit end of life 12 years from now rather than 4 years from now.

Bob

[dsatwork]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Thanks. Is there any issue with leaving the converter plugged in all the time with the fixed output?

I agree and have installed the Boondocker before I installed the Multiplus II. Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great installers. And when they come out, they tackle great installation projects with no more gumption than you have.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Thanks. Is there any issue with leaving the converter plugged in all the time with the fixed output?

This will depend what the output voltage is from your converter and what your battery manufacturer recommends.

On my Battle Born batteries, all my devices are set to go to a float charge of 13.6 after charging is complete.

My solar charge converter is always turned on, so as long as the sun is shining it is sending a float charge to the batteries. If I'm plugged in, the converter is on at float charge unless charging.

The only time mine are turned off is when I'm storing the trailer for more than a few days and not running anything which will deplete the batteries. When the charging devices are off, the batteries are disconnected to avoid the parasitic loads from depleting them.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi
First off, a weird max voltage on your batteries should be a big red flag saying something is wrong here. Just what they did .. who knows without a deep dive. Since it's an outfit nobody uses, there is no data from other folks.

This is a well established company. I think they have more presence in industry and maybe boats. https://discoverbattery.com/

This was pretty persuasive to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5tdu-CGA0c

I am trying to keep the batteries in the battery box so Group 24 size and IP67 rating are appealing.

[SeaJim]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

I am in that group of people that want to switch from lead acid batteries to LifePO4 but have limited knowledge of electricity and a relatively poor skillset in re-doing wiring. I want to keep the batteries in the battery box and have batteries with bluetooth so that I get individual status and don't have to wire in a smart shunt.

I thought a Discover Blue DLB-G24-12V was perfect. It is group 24 size, made by a reputable well established company, is of a modern design with prismatic cells and replaceable BMS, and has bluetooth. So, I started reading about it. I discovered that its bulk charge voltage range is 13.8 - 14.2V. That is below all the lithium converters I could find, which all seem to be 14.6V or above. Discover Battery told me that it does not recommend using a 14.6V charger because above that level the BMS is set to go into protect mode. The PowerMax PM3 has a fixed charge mode where you can set a constant voltage and Battle Born has an example where you set it in fixed mode and then put it back into 3 stage mode as a setup for its batteries. https://battlebornbatteries.com/powe...po4-batteries/

I am thinking adjusting that to 14.2V, but then the absorption stage will likely be 13.6V which is below the recommended 13.8V.

Is there anyone knowledgeable with thoughts on that approach? Is there any harm in just using a fixed 13.8V charge? I am concerned about that one because we store the trailer plugged in for maybe up to six weeks at a time. Anyone know of a converter with more adjustability?

You've already gotten a lot of good feedback here. I did a drop-in LiFePo upgrade with 2 Battlebornes and a Progressive Dynamics drop-in upgrade from Bestconverters which has performed quite well. The one suggestion I'd add is to contact the supplier of the Discover Blues to see what converter they can recommend based on experience. If they can't do that I'd move on to another supplier.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by SeaJim

The one suggestion I'd add is to contact the supplier of the Discover Blues to see what converter they can recommend based on experience. If they can't do that I'd move on to another supplier.

Thanks, I have a dialog going on with them now. They suggested Kisae ABSO and Victron so far. Except in expensive units, their products seem more like battery chargers, meaning that if you set them to provide DC power, the battery charging logic switches to whatever voltage you set.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Thanks, I have a dialog going on with them now. They suggested Kisae ABSO and Victron so far. Except in expensive units, their products seem more like battery chargers, meaning that if you set them to provide DC power, the battery charging logic switches to whatever voltage you set.

I'm a bit confused by how you say this...

Are you trying to have a constant voltage DC output AND a 2-stage charging output? If so, what would be the reason?

Most 12v devices can operate on a range of voltages and generally can function well on whatever voltage a 2-stage charger is putting out, and on the Victron you can set them to virtually whatever you need.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by richard5933

I'm a bit confused by how you say this...

Are you trying to have a constant voltage DC output AND a 2-stage charging output? If so, what would be the reason?

Most 12v devices can operate on a range of voltages and generally can function well on whatever voltage a 2-stage charger is putting out, and on the Victron you can set them to virtually whatever you need.

Yeah, you're right. I was thinking that is what a converter does, but after I wrote it I realized there was only one output from the converter not a second one to be a power supply. Shows you how little I understand this stuff.