Circuit Breaker popped and sparks?

[dkat]

Hello all!

I own a 2014 Flying Cloud 23FB and while I was connected to shore power a circuit breaker popped and there was a spark and smell of electrical burn. I turned the circuit breaker completely off and I had lost most of the electrical outlets and lights. I left it off for the night and then tried to reset the breaker in the morning and I immediately saw a spark behind the panel so I immediately turned it off again. I'm going to take it in for repairs but I like to be as informed as I can be and all my research hasn't provided much. Any ideas?

[azflycaster]

Sounds like a bad breaker.

[BayouBiker]

I agree, the breakers are popular/common household type available at Home Depot Nearly all the manufacturers make that model, and each one uses a different designation but bring in the old one and have the service people help pick the correct one. You can replace it yourself with not too much trouble, or have a local electrician do it.

As far as the explanation for the spark and smoke, part of the plastic or contactor arm probably broke, the contacts are no longer firm, they ark and spark, the energy melts the plastic and oxidizes the metal.

[gator.bigfoot]

Is the breaker seated correctly? Maybe it came loose while driving. Are the wires tight? If so then then it's your breaker.

[Trons4u]

Do you have a surge protector on the pedestal or inline EMS onboard the trailer? Any new wiring added?

[hhendrix]

Not likely a bad breaker (very rare), more likely a loose connection. I'm not quite sure if the breaker is at the shore power connection or inside your trailer, but my suggestion applies to either case. I've come across a few times in older parks and it has always been loose connection or a bad ground at the power post.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by dkat

Hello all!

....... I turned the circuit breaker completely off and I had lost most of the electrical outlets and lights. ........ Any ideas?

Hi

Ummm ... errrr ... electrical outlets are on 120V, they *should* go away when you flip a breaker. So far ok.

Lights in an AS are typically wired to 12V. Unless you have done some custom work, they should run off the battery or the converter / charger. If they *did* flip off that suggests an issue with the 12V wiring.

Indeed this would be a bit easier to work out if we knew which breaker we're talking about .....

Bob

[TerraYacht]

Inspection is needed when you pull out the breaker. Of course, the input power should be disconnected, not just turned off, along with any inverter you might have. As you disassemble, check the wiring to the breaker and also inspect the other wires inside: I had some overheated wiring that actually melted the insulation in the box that caused the short and big spark event.

If you are not comfortable doing this then get an electrician, that is a safe move.

[gator.bigfoot]

It may also be none of the above. The breaker could just be tripping due to an overload. The kind you get with a dead short. I've never seen sparks before, but then I usually don't stand in front of the panel when it goes. Sparks are usually associated with loose contacts.

As was mentioned it highly unlikely it is the breaker. In testing in the lab we took these things up to 33000 volts before they would explode. The testing they undergo is extremely rigorous. Not to say they don't fail, but often not the first place I'd start. Unless the breaker fell apart (highly unlikely since it's riveted) or there is a catastrophic internal failure I would look elsewhere.

[BayouBiker]

I agree, bob and gator are probably correct. A loose connection is far more likely. My bad.

[David2638]

[I had very similar problem last year on 2018 27 Serentity FB. Found loose wires wire nuts had come loose and was arcing causing breaker to trip and not resettable. Travel vibration and movement caused wire nut to come loose. Cut out burnt wires renutted and taped all wires


QUOTE=dkat;2431640]Hello all!

I own a 2014 Flying Cloud 23FB and while I was connected to shore power a circuit breaker popped and there was a spark and smell of electrical burn. I turned the circuit breaker completely off and I had lost most of the electrical outlets and lights. I left it off for the night and then tried to reset the breaker in the morning and I immediately saw a spark behind the panel so I immediately turned it off again. I'm going to take it in for repairs but I like to be as informed as I can be and all my research hasn't provided much. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

[dkat]

Thanks for the help everyone! I took it to the airstream dealer in Vegas to get looked at. They’re saying I need a new inverter. I haven’t had a chance to call them back yet but I had understood that my airstream didn’t have an inverter so I’m a little confused...

[wilsodf]

I thought all Airstreams had an inverter

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by dkat

Thanks for the help everyone! I took it to the airstream dealer in Vegas to get looked at. They’re saying I need a new inverter. I haven’t had a chance to call them back yet but I had understood that my airstream didn’t have an inverter so I’m a little confused...

Inverter or converter?

[dkat]

They said inverter! I was expecting Converter so that’s why I was surprised but like I’ve said electrical is definitely not in my skill set. I thought that since my airstream only had outlet power when it was connected to shore power it doesn’t have an inverter because that’s what you normally add and what you need to operate outlets and AC power when boondocking. Is that incorrect?

Thanks again for the help everyone! I full time by myself so this forum has been so helpful!

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by dkat

They said inverter! I was expecting Converter

I'm guessing they misspoke and meant to say converter. For future reference...when something electrical sparks and burns, letting it rest overnight isn't going to allow it to fix itself!

[PB_NB]

Sounds like a component such as the converter/charger. This component is connected to the breaker panel. It serves a few things:

1) Provides a 12v DC source for the lights and pumps when running on shore power. You can switch your house batteries to "Store" and still have function of the lights and pumps.
2) Charges the house batteries when running on shore power when your battery switch in switched to "Use".

It is possible that a loose connection can do this as well but not too sure why the burning smell and sparks would persist. If the breaker was tripped, the converter would not see any shore power. If the connection was loose between the shore power connection and the breaker panel, that should have been reported by the technician during their inspection.

I would check out the 12v DC systems as well to see why the lights don't work. Could be that your battery is flat or was overcharged by the converter/charger. Lights should come on without shore power as they are powered by the house batteries.

If you have an inverter, it is designed to take 12v DC power from the batteries and produce 120v AC. The typical install is to designate one or a few receptacles that can be used for a TV or small appliance. This is not offered in all Airstreams as ours didn't have one when we picked it up from the dealer. There is probably a receptacle marked "INVERTER" somewhere in the trailer as well as a switch to turn the inverter on and off.

In addition to the breakers, there should be some DC fuses (automotive style) located in the breaker panel. Have a look at those as well if the converter overloaded those circuits.

A converter/charger is not expensive so that is a good thing and should be easy to change (I am speaking from my own experience with my 22') which took me all of 10 minutes to swap out with a different unit.

If you are planning a Lithium battery upgrade, this might be a good time to get a newer model that is better suited for charging Lithium Batteries.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

It could easily be a fried inverter.

Bob

[gator.bigfoot]

If inverter then it should run on DC and trip the fuse. The output of the inverter should be fused at the source of the inverter unless it's some kind of hybrid install. Converter runs off AC. A short in the converter would trip a breaker and render any charging of the batteries useless. Also would explain the that there were no lights on the DC side after the it fried.