Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-01-2024, 02:41 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Bypass for hardwired EPO

Hey all.

I plan on hardwiring a Power Watchdog EPO in my unit. Being a belt and suspenders kinda guy, Iím looking for a way to bypass it should I need to.

Was thinking the shore power goes into a transfer switch of some sort (more on that later), one of the outputs goes through the EMS and the other bypasses it. On the other end would be another transfer switch, perhaps automatic, in which the output of the EMS and the bypass cable would go in and then the output feed my Victron MPII.

My questions:

- Can a transfer switch be used in that fashion, that is one power in and two power outs? In other words, kind of in a reversed manner?

- Is there a better way to achieve this?

Thanks all.
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2024, 04:19 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
StogieMan's Avatar
 
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Salem , New Hampshire
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 835
I set up ours kinda sorta like that. Our setup goes like this:

30a plug & generator power go into a Full Protection Surge Guard ATS. The out on the ATS goes into a 30A breaker then to the Victron 3k Multiplus.

The reason I put the 30a plug on one side of of the ATS is that we also have a Hughes Autoformer hardwired 30A outlet and don’t always need to use it especially when plugged in at home. When we want to use the Hughes AF, we just plug the ATS plug into the Hughes AF and the Hughes AF plug into the the 30A outlet. When we don’t want to use the Hughes AF, we just plug the ATS plug into the the 30A outlet. The 30a outlet is tied to incoming shore power.

Basically we can bypass the Hughes AF whenever we want to. You can probably setup your Power Watchdog in the same manner. The way that I wired it ensures that everything is going through our Surge Guard first for protection. The Hughes AF can do its thing if needed before the Surge Guard.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1753.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	455.9 KB
ID:	439876   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1681.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	401.5 KB
ID:	439877  

StogieMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2024, 05:59 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,202
Blog Entries: 4
I think StogieMan has a great idea using plugs to select where the power goes.

Using a Bypass switch gets tricky with 50A since you're switching two hot leads vs. one with 30A. Using a plug/receptacle simplifies the switching.

Here's how it could work:
- Female receptacle on the Shore Power line to the WatchDog
- Male plug on the input line to the WatchDog
- Female plug on the output side of the WatchDog
- Male plug on the input to the Victron with enough slack to reach the Shore Power female receptacle.

If there's a failure of the WatchDog, disconnect the male plug to the Victron input and connect it to the female receptacle from Shore Power. Note: Every plug adds possible resistance to the circuit vs solid wire.

Or... buy a spare module for the WatchDog and swap it if it ever fails. Just consider leaving enough slack in the lines to the WatchDog so you can flip it upside down as the back has to come off to get to the module.
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2024, 06:47 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Thanks gents. That’s an very interesting solution. Any code issue there? Having a live 50A outlet and plug inside of the RV is ok? Just want to be sure? Any danger that it wiggles off as we drive around?
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2024, 08:38 AM   #5
3 Rivet Member
 
Lucky Dog's Avatar
 
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
Down the Shore , New Jersey
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 156
I have a Progressive Industries EMS (30amp) hardwired in our Airstream. 50A version available as well. The display module has a bypass switch built in...this from the user manual:

ByPass: This switch is located on the remote display and allows the user to
bypass the EMS in the event of failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This
does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other
features are disabled.

Is this not what you are looking to accomplish?
__________________
Rich
Lucky Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2024, 08:41 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,202
Blog Entries: 4
There are 50A twist lock receptacles and plugs. They are not NEMA rated but are safe to use inside. NEMA only goes up to 30A on locking plugs.

They’d offer more security from unintended disconnections. You’ll find them listed as “California style” plugs. A little pricey but would do the job.

Here’s a post about them. https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/...eptacle.32140/
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2024, 09:28 AM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
2024 30' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
Hey all.

I plan on hardwiring a Power Watchdog EPO in my unit. Being a belt and suspenders kinda guy, Iím looking for a way to bypass it should I need to.

Was thinking the shore power goes into a transfer switch of some sort (more on that later), one of the outputs goes through the EMS and the other bypasses it. On the other end would be another transfer switch, perhaps automatic, in which the output of the EMS and the bypass cable would go in and then the output feed my Victron MPII.

My questions:

- Can a transfer switch be used in that fashion, that is one power in and two power outs? In other words, kind of in a reversed manner?

- Is there a better way to achieve this?

Thanks all.
I have read that the Hughes does not play nice with the Victron MP. There is some info on the Hughes website - a known issue. So if you are hard wiring then you definitely need the option to by-pass.

I was considering the hard wired solution but given the issues I just went with the external unit at the pedestal. Easier to just take out of the set up if any issues.
FredWilma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2024, 10:34 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Dog View Post
I have a Progressive Industries EMS (30amp) hardwired in our Airstream. 50A version available as well. The display module has a bypass switch built in...this from the user manual:

ByPass: This switch is located on the remote display and allows the user to
bypass the EMS in the event of failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This
does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other
features are disabled.

Is this not what you are looking to accomplish?
Yes, kind of. And I have looked at the Progressive Industries one. Iím looking for a way to completely bypass the unit. I get that you can turn off the EMS portion but would there be situations where the unit fails altogether? Thatís where Iíd like to be belt and suspenders and have as few potential failure points as possible.
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2024, 04:17 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredWilma View Post
I have read that the Hughes does not play nice with the Victron MP. There is some info on the Hughes website - a known issue. So if you are hard wiring then you definitely need the option to by-pass.

I was considering the hard wired solution but given the issues I just went with the external unit at the pedestal. Easier to just take out of the set up if any issues.
Indeed there is a warning on the Hughes web site. I called them this afternoon to get more details. They believe that load balancing occurs on the MultiPlus II between the two 50A lines which would send some power back through the neutral, which the Power Watchdog then sees as an open neutral and shuts the power down. At least that’s how I understood it.

Now, I do use a portable Power Watchdog 50A with EPO today along with my MultiPlus II and I have no issues at all. They found that interesting and asked me to email them more details on my setup. The rep on the phone was super friendly.

I also took the opportunity to ask if I could use the portable version inside my trailer using the Internal Hardwiring Kit (https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...ll-kit-50-amp/) they sell for their voltage boosters. I know it would work as stated above. Just want an official POV on the safety of it. Said they’d get back to me. That would certainly a better option given the talk around incompatibility with the MP II though again, I’ve experienced none of it.
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2024, 11:22 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
So I think I’m settled.

I will go ahead and keep my portable Power Watchdog but mount it inside my AS and ‘plug it in’ using Hughes’ Voltage Booster Hardwiring Kit.

I get the potential issues between the MPII and PWD but I’m seeing none of this with the portable version. Mounting it inside shouldn’t make it any less compatible.

Only question I still have is the using a 50A plug and outlet inside. I will likely secure the plugs and outlet together with Velcro and @StogieMan has that setup without problem it appears. But, again, anyone knows if this is a code issue?
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2024, 04:33 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
StogieMan's Avatar
 
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Salem , New Hampshire
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
So I think Iím settled.

I will go ahead and keep my portable Power Watchdog but mount it inside my AS and Ďplug it iní using Hughesí Voltage Booster Hardwiring Kit.

I get the potential issues between the MPII and PWD but Iím seeing none of this with the portable version. Mounting it inside shouldnít make it any less compatible.

Only question I still have is the using a 50A plug and outlet inside. I will likely secure the plugs and outlet together with Velcro and @StogieMan has that setup without problem it appears. But, again, anyone knows if this is a code issue?

steilkurve, there is always a chance that the plug can come loose. We have ours plugged into the ATS plug about 95% of the time and it has yet to come loose. However, I can see the connection becoming loose over time if itís a constant plugging and unplugging. If it makes you more comfortable, add the velcro strap across the plug as you mentioned for peace of mind. Actually, I might do the same to mine as well. Or as jeffmc306 recommended, the 50A twist lock version. Actually, I would go this route as the 50A plugs are on the beefier and heavier side than the 30A ones.

I donít know about Canadian code but here in the states I donít see an issue if properly wired. These hardwire kits that Hughes sells are meant to be used inside the rigs. I wouldíve hardwired everything but again, I wanted to be able to take the Hughes AF out of the mix whenever I wanted to.
StogieMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2024, 08:22 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Sioux Falls , South Dakota
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,183
"Just consider leaving enough slack in the lines to the WatchDog so you can flip it upside down as the back has to come off to get to the module." Thanks for the tip! I'm getting ready to start the wiring part of my electrical project. I have some of the components mounted already, but nothing is wired - yet.
__________________
David Lininger, kb0zke
AIR 54240
Heartland mpg 181 (sold)
1993 Foretravel U300 (sold)
2022 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS
kb0zke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2024, 06:21 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by StogieMan View Post
steilkurve, there is always a chance that the plug can come loose. We have ours plugged into the ATS plug about 95% of the time and it has yet to come loose. However, I can see the connection becoming loose over time if itís a constant plugging and unplugging. If it makes you more comfortable, add the velcro strap across the plug as you mentioned for peace of mind. Actually, I might do the same to mine as well. Or as jeffmc306 recommended, the 50A twist lock version. Actually, I would go this route as the 50A plugs are on the beefier and heavier side than the 30A ones.

I donít know about Canadian code but here in the states I donít see an issue if properly wired. These hardwire kits that Hughes sells are meant to be used inside the rigs. I wouldíve hardwired everything but again, I wanted to be able to take the Hughes AF out of the mix whenever I wanted to.
Thanks StogieMan. Good point. All Hughes products seem approved for use up here too. Iíd assume that includes the hardwiring kit solution. The twist lock is interesting, but I may start with the Velcro to avoid having to change the plugs on my Power Watchdog. Plus, Iíll screw the unit to a solid surface using the bars Hugues sells. That should keep the plugs in place. Iíll report back with photos when done. Thanks again.
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2024, 02:13 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by StogieMan View Post
steilkurve, there is always a chance that the plug can come loose. We have ours plugged into the ATS plug about 95% of the time and it has yet to come loose. However, I can see the connection becoming loose over time if itís a constant plugging and unplugging. If it makes you more comfortable, add the velcro strap across the plug as you mentioned for peace of mind. Actually, I might do the same to mine as well. Or as jeffmc306 recommended, the 50A twist lock version. Actually, I would go this route as the 50A plugs are on the beefier and heavier side than the 30A ones.

I donít know about Canadian code but here in the states I donít see an issue if properly wired. These hardwire kits that Hughes sells are meant to be used inside the rigs. I wouldíve hardwired everything but again, I wanted to be able to take the Hughes AF out of the mix whenever I wanted to.
Hey. Just wanted to circle back on this one. I've pretty much completed moving my Power Watchdog inside using the hardwiring kit Hughes sell. See photos. You'll notice I'm using velcro to secure the plugs.

The only concern I now have is the noise the unit generates. Had never noticed it outside but inside, I do. Since my electrical gear is under the bed, it may be more noticeable. The good news is, now that I've got the plug, I can easily move it outside again.

Do you (or anyone) know if the portable Progressive Industries unit are less noisy?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1639.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	388.0 KB
ID:	440687   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1636.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	243.6 KB
ID:	440688  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1635.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	337.4 KB
ID:	440689   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1634.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	265.9 KB
ID:	440691  

steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2024, 02:57 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,202
Blog Entries: 4
Nice job!

steilkurve, that turned out great, nice job! I never thought about installed an external unit inside. I could have saved some $$ and kept my old Progressive EMS.

Regarding the noise, have you considered installing some acoustic foam to the bottom side of the bed? The Foam Factory sells several different kinds and they have a Canadian website.

Good luck and again, nice job!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0195.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	230.1 KB
ID:	440692  
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2024, 03:36 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc306 View Post
steilkurve, that turned out great, nice job! I never thought about installed an external unit inside. I could have saved some $$ and kept my old Progressive EMS.

Regarding the noise, have you considered installing some acoustic foam to the bottom side of the bed? The Foam Factory sells several different kinds and they have a Canadian website.

Good luck and again, nice job!
Thanks Jeff!

On your question, I have. That whole former storage area under the queen bed is boxed in. Made a cabinet of sorts with the same kind of plywood AS uses. The cover, which is removed in the photos, has sound dampening material on it.

That said, I installed an AC Infinity fan that kicks in when the cabinet gets too hot (that MultiPlus can produce a lot of heat). I think it's through the fan hole that the Power Watchdog noise gets out.

If anyone has tested their EMS unit for noise and found a quiet one, do let me know!
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2024, 07:21 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
Thanks Jeff!

On your question, I have. That whole former storage area under the queen bed is boxed in. Made a cabinet of sorts with the same kind of plywood AS uses. The cover, which is removed in the photos, has sound dampening material on it.

That said, I installed an AC Infinity fan that kicks in when the cabinet gets too hot (that MultiPlus can produce a lot of heat). I think it's through the fan hole that the Power Watchdog noise gets out.

If anyone has tested their EMS unit for noise and found a quiet one, do let me know!
Making progress.

Called Hughes about the hum. Said some humming is normal but that it may be exacerbated in by the steel mounting bars they sold me to secure the unit to the plywood. Those bars are screwed into the Watchdog and come in direct contact with its casing.

The electrical vibration that produces the humming was likely passed on to the bars and then reverberated by the plywood.

Hughes support suggested adding small rubber washers between the bars and the casing. I did and it made a difference right away. I think the Watchdog is actually now less noisy than the MultiPlus itself!

Next, they suggested adding aluminum covered butyl sound dampening sheets (the stuff used in cars) behind the unit. Ordered some and will install it. Iíll also add more washers between the bars and the butyl sheets as well as between the screws and the mounting bars.

Iíll report back when complete with photos.
steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2024, 11:31 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
StogieMan's Avatar
 
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Salem , New Hampshire
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
Making progress.

Called Hughes about the hum. Said some humming is normal but that it may be exacerbated in by the steel mounting bars they sold me to secure the unit to the plywood. Those bars are screwed into the Watchdog and come in direct contact with its casing.

The electrical vibration that produces the humming was likely passed on to the bars and then reverberated by the plywood.

Hughes support suggested adding small rubber washers between the bars and the casing. I did and it made a difference right away. I think the Watchdog is actually now less noisy than the MultiPlus itself!

Next, they suggested adding aluminum covered butyl sound dampening sheets (the stuff used in cars) behind the unit. Ordered some and will install it. Iíll also add more washers between the bars and the butyl sheets as well as between the screws and the mounting bars.

Iíll report back when complete with photos.
steilkurve,

I'm sorry for the late reply but we took a few days off to celebrate my wife's birthday. Normally she gets a birthday month - lol.

We don't have the watchdog but do have a SurgeGuard which is quiet. As you mentioned, our Victron 3k is louder by far especially when charging. However, we don't have the space in our van for sound proofing and if it did it probably wouldn't make a difference anyway.

Very clean and great looking install though!
StogieMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2024, 05:25 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
steilkurve's Avatar
 
2020 22' Bambi
2022 25' Globetrotter
St-Laurent , Quebec
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 883
Update. After many attempts to silence the Power Watchdog through sound deadening materials, washers and so on, I finally bit the bullet and swapped it for the new Surge Guard EMS that also has Bluetooth. It is super quiet.

Unlike the Power Watchdog, no brackets are sold to mount it permanently. So, I built elevated brackets with aluminum flats that the unit rests on. I then used Velcro straps to secure it to the brackets.

I think this little project is done!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1666.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	264.4 KB
ID:	441261   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1665.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	258.6 KB
ID:	441262  

steilkurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installing Progressive Industries 30A hardwired Surge Protector Darin27 General Repair Forum 12 02-08-2023 04:29 PM
Hardwired Hughes Power Watchdog Surge Protector MTB Basecamp 2016 - Current Classic (all lengths) 0 03-22-2022 02:56 PM
Hardwired Voyager Monitor in TV OVRLNDR Audio, Video & TV 0 12-13-2021 04:38 PM
hardwired stuff died while on shore power rec Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 3 08-16-2014 11:59 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.