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Old 03-05-2020, 07:58 AM   #1
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Battleborns in OEM battery box

The battery box on our 2014 Classic 27FB is right at 15x15" around and 10" tall. Removed Interstate grp 27s which were a tight fit. BB batteries are slightly longer which seems ok but also taller and i need to use posts adapters as i don't want to muck with oem wiring.

Simply looking to drop in 2 BB batteries for Alaska trip and yes i already have the PD4655LIV

Also aware of why they would be better inside, etc but simply trying to determine if they will physically fit in my oem box before spending $$ and finding they don't fit.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:08 AM   #2
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What is a PD4655LIV? A converter / inverter?
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:09 AM   #3
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Yes, they fit very well in our Classic, with more room than the Lifeline's had.👍
You will have to change the cable ends to eyelet style.

Bob
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:31 PM   #4
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Im hoping our Classic battery box is the same as yours.
Thank you for the reply.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:34 PM   #5
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Lithium compatible converter. Puts out constant 14.6v which isn't ideal but about only option at the moment to retrofit a Parallax 7355 and be Lithium compatible.

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Originally Posted by dhroberts View Post
What is a PD4655LIV? A converter / inverter?
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:41 PM   #6
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On the cable eyelet comment... Is that because of height issue if using BB posts? Im aware the batteries don't have posts... Was hoping to use the BB add-on post for the main battery cables due to all my electronic tools/supplies being 1500 miles away but think that would put them too close to the lid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Yes, they fit very well in our Classic, with more room than the Lifeline's had.👍
You will have to change the cable ends to eyelet style.

Bob
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingingit View Post
On the cable eyelet comment... Is that because of height issue if using BB posts? Im aware the batteries don't have posts... Was hoping to use the BB add-on post for the main battery cables due to all my electronic tools/supplies being 1500 miles away but think that would put them too close to the lid.
The style of the post that requires it.....it is about the same height. I'd send a photo but our tongue is still covered for Winter and I can't open the doors.
It does look like these should work, hard to be sure, maybe someone who has used them will chime in.


FWIW we use this Boondocker Lithium converter which IS adjustable.

Bob
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"Instead of going to ’Starbucks…I make my own Coffee at home, yell out my name rong, then light a five dollar bill on fire"
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:06 AM   #8
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Hi

They fit fine in the battery box on our 2017 Classic. They have done fine there for a couple years now.

The way AS does the cable ends, there really is no alternative to putting new "stuff" on the ends of the cables. There *is* enough room, but not by an enormous amount ....

The often mentioned Chinese hydraulic crimper from Amazon for < $50 delivered and a couple of the right end fittings will make short work of the task. Check the bolt size on the BB's and the wire gauges involved. That gives you what you need to order up the supplies.

Bob
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:12 AM   #9
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we moved the BB lion battery inside under the bed. that helped to reduce tongue weight

we also moved from the stock PD converter to the victron 3k inverter/converter. very pleased with both items
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:12 AM   #10
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Temperature condition Lithium batteries?

From my understanding of Lithium batteries, they can be discharged hot or cold, but should be “room” temperature when being charged. Since this is not possible in the external battery box much of the time, don’t you need to relocate the batteries to be inside? The number of charge/discharge cycles the batteries are capable of is reduced if the battery is charged when cold or hot.

Pleasure Way recently posted a factory tour video that discusses this issue, explaining that the batteries should be in the conditioned space to avoid damaging lithium batteries. Electric cars (Tesla) also temperature conditions their batteries for this reason.
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:23 AM   #11
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Snip..."From my understanding of Lithium batteries, they can be discharged hot or cold, but should be “room” temperature when being charged."

That is not true with our Battleborn's...they are in the AS as I type.
During tests they have charged at temps down to 28*F with no concerns. 28* was the temp at which the BMS stopped the charging.
This is not theory...I did several winter tests.

FWIW...although this can be done, it is not something that should be done on a regular Basis.
I only did it once to trace SOC thru the Winter.

Bob
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Here is a month of tracking...after a full Winter charge.
2/04/20 13.91v 09:30am Charged rested 6hrs
2/04/20 13.38v 11:30pm 33*
2/05/20 13.32v 9:00am 29*
2/06/20 13.29v 9:00am 26*
2/07/20 13.28v 5:00pm 27*
2/09/20 13.28v 8:00pm 36*
2/11/20 13.28v 10:26pm 35*
2/13/20 13.28v 7:35pm 26*
2/14/20 12.70v 6:30am 11*
2/16/20 13.28v 10:40am 35*
2/18/20 13.29v 10:53pm 35*
2/22/20 13.26v 2:29pm 34*
2/24/20 13.29v 8:35am 45*
2/26/20 13.30v 12:30am 37*
3/02/20 13.30v 7:30am 47*
3/04/20 13.31v 12:30pm 37*
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"Any nation that can survive what we have lately in the way of government, is on the high road to permanent glory."
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"Instead of going to ’Starbucks…I make my own Coffee at home, yell out my name rong, then light a five dollar bill on fire"
Amanamus


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Old 03-06-2020, 10:10 AM   #12
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Yeah, the tools are my demise. I have all sizes of copper lugs with me but my HD crimping tools are in another state and I don't want to buy tools twice. Guess I'll see if I can round up/borrow a crimper from someone. My last install on our 5th wheel last summer...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/d35eHG6JK1NdvsYh6


Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

They fit fine in the battery box on our 2017 Classic. They have done fine there for a couple years now.

The way AS does the cable ends, there really is no alternative to putting new "stuff" on the ends of the cables. There *is* enough room, but not by an enormous amount ....

The often mentioned Chinese hydraulic crimper from Amazon for < $50 delivered and a couple of the right end fittings will make short work of the task. Check the bolt size on the BB's and the wire gauges involved. That gives you what you need to order up the supplies.

Bob
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:12 AM   #13
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Yep, ideally they should be inside if one is using year-round or in freezing temps. In our case we are only using for Alaska trip this summer so not concerned with freezing temps. The AS is just our travel rig ...we also have 5th wheel. The AS will only be used in summer, etc. We full-time in a 5th wheel in AZ over winters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterdamer View Post
From my understanding of Lithium batteries, they can be discharged hot or cold, but should be “room” temperature when being charged. Since this is not possible in the external battery box much of the time, don’t you need to relocate the batteries to be inside? The number of charge/discharge cycles the batteries are capable of is reduced if the battery is charged when cold or hot.

Pleasure Way recently posted a factory tour video that discusses this issue, explaining that the batteries should be in the conditioned space to avoid damaging lithium batteries. Electric cars (Tesla) also temperature conditions their batteries for this reason.
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Old 03-06-2020, 11:33 AM   #14
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Group 27 Lithium batteries for low temp

You might consider the ReLion battery instead of the BattleBorn. They make a battery which will drop-in replace the group 27.
RB80 -12V 80Ah LiFePO4 Battery
12 in (305 mm) x 6.6 in (168 mm) x 8.6 in (219 mm)
It has a low temp charge cut-off so it will not charge if the temp is below freezing.
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb80

Also they offer a battery which has the low temperature charge cut-off and heat tracing. The battery can be frozen to -4F and when a charge is applied, the battery will self-heat to the point where the cells are warm enough to take a charge. However this battery is the same size as the BattleBorn (Group 31/100Ah instead of Group 27/80ah) so it you will need to check to see if you have the room.
12.95 x 6.77 x 8.9” 329 x 172 x 223 mm
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb100-lt

If you go with the Group 27 you will have twice the usable watt hours, 5 times the life and higher constant voltage of your current lead acid batteries.
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Old 03-06-2020, 12:25 PM   #15
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Battle Born

They do NOT need to be placed inside the trailer. Several companies make low temp lithium batteries which have their own built in heating pad.
I spoke with battle Born and they have one coming out SOON !.
I will go that route. I will buy a Batt Box extender online to increase the height
of the b-box.
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Old 03-06-2020, 05:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingingit View Post
Yep, ideally they should be inside if one is using year-round or in freezing temps. In our case we are only using for Alaska trip this summer so not concerned with freezing temps. The AS is just our travel rig ...we also have 5th wheel. The AS will only be used in summer, etc. We full-time in a 5th wheel in AZ over winters.
Where/who claims such, I'm not aware of that.
I even called BB to confirm my charging plan this Winter.
Was told the BMS will control the charging & not to worry about damage. The batteries are in the AS disconnected from the panel with no load and off shore power.

Bob
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Currently 33*
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"Any nation that can survive what we have lately in the way of government, is on the high road to permanent glory."
Molly Ivins

"Instead of going to ’Starbucks…I make my own Coffee at home, yell out my name rong, then light a five dollar bill on fire"
Amanamus


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Old 03-06-2020, 06:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingingit View Post
Yeah, the tools are my demise. I have all sizes of copper lugs with me but my HD crimping tools are in another state and I don't want to buy tools twice. Guess I'll see if I can round up/borrow a crimper from someone. My last install on our 5th wheel last summer...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/d35eHG6JK1NdvsYh6
The West Marine boating store near me has all the lugs, wire, and a crimper available for use at the store. Check the West Marine stores near you.
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:03 PM   #18
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Yes BMS is supposed to protect batteries in sub freezing temps. My comment was regarding actually using RV/batteries in extended freezing environments where they will happily discharge for you but recharging is another matter entirely if in prolonged freezing temps where temperatures don't warm enough long enough for batteries to recover/charge entirely. Some people use RVs in such climates where freezing temps impact the ability to use the batteries. Probably not an issue for 95% of RV owners. But enough of a problem where mfrs, including BB are addressing the issue.
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Old 03-07-2020, 07:19 AM   #19
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Hi

The BMS in the BB's *will* protect them from charging when it is "to cold" ( = below freezing ). Once it gets above freezing there is no problem. They very much do *not* need to come up to "room temperature" to be working properly.

We don't use the trailer when it is below freezing all day / many days in a row. There are just to many issues when doing that. The combination of those things makes it "no fun", so we don't .... Our "cold use" is on days where it might go below freezing overnight and it warms up well above freezing during the day.

The temperature that matters in this case is the actual battery temperature, not the air temperature. Since they are pretty massive, it takes them a while to "cool down". If it gets chilly overnight, they may never "see" that temperature. Unless it gets cold / stays cold, the batteries are going to be doing fairly well. A temperature sensor on the batteries is a useful thing .....

Indeed, it's not real clear to me what the "use case" is for charging the batteries at 5AM in the morning is. The solar isn't going to be doing anything before sunrise. I'm most certainly *not* going to be out there running the generator. If we're on shore power, the batteries are already charged. If you are charging with a generator, do it around dinner time.....

Watching the temp's here in PA this winter. In most weeks, we *could* have been out playing with the AS. It's been a very warm winter.

Bob
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Old 03-07-2020, 08:30 PM   #20
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True.

Bob
Can't give out my dealer source but I was looking at buying BattleBorns then converting my own current vehicle battery blanket to fit. Dealer said hang on they are coming out with a blanket system for BattleBorns.

Thanks for your post on the temp vs voltage drain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Where/who claims such, I'm not aware of that.
I even called BB to confirm my charging plan this Winter.
Was told the BMS will control the charging & not to worry about damage. The batteries are in the AS disconnected from the panel with no load and off shore power.

Bob
🇺🇸

Currently 33*
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