Battleborns in OEM battery box

[NoResults]

What about the opposite? Camping in hot temp with batteries in outside battery box. Is this a problem?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by NoResults

What about the opposite? Camping in hot temp with batteries in outside battery box. Is this a problem?

Hi

With any batteries, once you get over about 140 degrees, things get iffy. If you expect to be out in that sort of heat, I'd suggest that the batteries are pretty far down the "worry list". Your stock A/C setup will have some serious problems at those temperatures as well .....

============

As far as heater mat versions, RV's are *not* the only market for these batteries. They go into a lot of applications and BB sells into a number of markets. If you have a cell site on top of a > 12,000 foot mountain in the northern part of the country, it's going to get *really* cold up there .....

Bob

[jimdelane]

The BMS with low temp charge cut-off should stop all incoming charge at 0F. The battery will still discharge at up to -4F (same as lead acid).
Both the maximum recommended temperature are well above what is considered comfortable
Discharge Temperature -4 to 140 ºF (-20 to 60 ºC)
Charge Temperature -4 to 113 ºF (-20 to 45 ºC)

Also, lithium batteries have much better performance at colder temperatures than lead-acid batteries. At 0°C, for example, a lead-acid battery’s capacity is reduced by up to 50%, while a lithium iron phosphate battery suffers only a 10% loss at the same temperature.

What 'uncle_bob' said about battery temp vs air temp is worth considering. In many instances, the battery is in an area which is not subject to freezing.
Robert_Cross posting shows the charging of lithiums at various cold temps and noted they low temp cut-off activated at 28F.
The point is that the batteries have shown to charge below the recommended charge temp. This is probably not good for the cells and may affect long term cycle life.
The main concern is whether the battery may be subject to subfreezing temp long enough to freeze the battery. If so, a heated battery or a battery blanket should be considered if there is some charging system connected such as solar or generator and there is a possibility that the battery can freeze.
Bottom line - know your application. Lithium batteries are a long term investment. They are safe, durable and can take a lot of use and abuse. Probably the last batteries you will ever buy. It does not take much to protect your investment.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by NoResults

What about the opposite? Camping in hot temp with batteries in outside battery box. Is this a problem?

"From the performed analysis, one can conclude that a lithium-ion battery should be kept in a temperature range lower than 40 °C and 75% SoC during its calendar life for guaranteeing long lifetime of the battery." Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...82420903000092

My battery box frequently exeeds 40C (104F). Here is a picture recording a 109F temperature on 9/10/19 at 3:08pm. I didn't take this picture to record the high temperature, it just happened to be hot at the time I took this picture. I'm sure I've seen temperatures exceeding 120F in my battery box under the hot Florida sun. I'd be more concerned about hot temperature performance than cold temperature performance in Florida.

[PKI]

This is a video that covers a conversation with the BattleBorn CEO on low temperature use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywn-vBjKblI

Pat

[glcmranger]

I put a Battleborn in my Teardrop (live in PA) and wrapped it with a Heater strip which I bought from Battleborn...... absolutely no problems charging at 22 degrees this winter.

http://battlebornbatteries.com/shop/heat-pad-for-bbgc2/

[Whamm511]

This has been a great discussion. I purchased my ‘78 Argosy 30 just this past summer with a bank of 2 LA batteries of indeterminate age. So I will be replacing them. I had been planning to use AGM batteries but this discussion now has me considering LI batteries. Any opinion on the relative merits of each would be appreciated.

[turk123]

While you guys are modifying the battery box for the new lithiums, you might consider adding a locking system or at least a chain wrap with lock. I will be visiting all of you collecting batteries for my new solar build.

Seriously, I don't believe we've seen a wave of lithium thefts in the RV community, but as lithium starts to be the norm, it might make a thief ponder his career path.

[Milo1952]

Just purchased 2 Lion UT 1300 batteries.
Good reviews On sale now at Costco 699.99 ea. Thru March 22
or until supplies last. Must be a Costco member.
Group 24 size replacement so no battery compartment
modifications needed.
They're not battleborns but close enough.
Now, next question is what charger to upgrade to ??
I have a 2017 30ft International.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by turk123

While you guys are modifying the battery box for the new lithiums, you might consider adding a locking system or at least a chain wrap with lock. I will be visiting all of you collecting batteries for my new solar build.

Seriously, I don't believe we've seen a wave of lithium thefts in the RV community, but as lithium starts to be the norm, it might make a thief ponder his career path.

Hi

Unless you brought along some fancy tools, you would leave a lot of blood evidence pulling mine out of the battery box

=====

AGM vs Lithium?

It's all about pay me now or pay me later. If you plan to keep the trailer for a long time and take a long view about money, lithiums make sense. If the trailer might get sold next week, neither one makes any sense at all ( = on sale at Costco is the right decision ). There are a number of AGM's that cost *more* than the equivalent capacity Lithium so even this part can get nutty.

To a lesser extent it's about putting ~2X the capacity in the same space. ( and weight savings ). That all was a *big* driver for us. If you never are off grid, it probably will not be for you.

Lithium's self protect (at least the good ones do). At the price they very much need to last a long time. Good ones also have a long warranty ( BB's are 10 year). AGM's might last a while, they aren't going to have a 10 year warranty.

Some folks burn through a set of good lead acid's in three or four years. They probably put a lot of cycles on them and are picky about capacity. They also could be doing something wrong, but to me three of four years is doing ok on lead acid's.

Others claim to get over 10 years out of the "on sale at Costco" version. I'd bet they aren't very picky about capacity. If you are in that "don't really care" group, Lithium's aren't for you.

Bob

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by Milo1952

Just purchased 2 Lion UT 1300 batteries.
Good reviews On sale now at Costco 699.99 ea. Thru March 22
or until supplies last. Must be a Costco member.
Group 24 size replacement so no battery compartment
modifications needed.
They're not battleborns but close enough.
Now, next question is what charger to upgrade to ??
I have a 2017 30ft International.

That is an awesome deal on a very good battery.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Unless you brought along some fancy tools, you would leave a lot of blood evidence pulling mine out of the battery box

Bob

Bob,

As I said too Rich...I am a digit-al engimeer.

I did this with my own 10 digits to solve that exact problem with the much heavier Lifelines....👍

Stream safe...

[wingingit]

So batteries are installed. Fit easily in our 2014 Classic Limited 27FB. Installed battery monitor locally (close to shunt) as i had no ambition to install inside since we never look at it in our 5th wheel.

Mounting a few new Renogy 100w panels over OEM Go Power flex panels that apparently bit the dust several years ago. Updated controller to simple Zamp that knows about Lithium.

[waninae39]

why not mount the BB inside

i did that and it removed weight off the tongue

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by waninae39

why not mount the BB inside

i did that and it removed weight off the tongue

Hi

You don't want to get all the weight off the tongue. There are some very basic problems with a "tongue neutral" trailer .....

Bob

[Milo1952]

I removed 50 lbs just by going to Lithium and almost tripled my usable AH's.

[waninae39]

why get a Battle Born Lion battery. It is the only UL listed battery
check this review out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRe9TWEEoI0

[Overlanding]

Thanks for the great installation advice on BB GC2s. It appears that the 2016 battery box is deeper than the 2015. The BB GC2s do NOT fit in our 2015 battery box, which is 10" deep. They are too tall by 0.3". We have an FBT with a front hatch, so we can only raise the top of the battery box by less than 1.0", with zero clearance for connectors and wiring.