Battery question

[Ofdtruckie]

Do not have a battery in my 31' sovereign.i plan on keeping it plugged in for some time.do I need a battery anyhow for system to work properly.i just popped both 30 fuses for charger converter and smelled electrical odor .a/c worked still but no lights inside.only thing I did was remount front overhead light it plugged into a little male and female fitting was falling apart so I cut out and wire nutted and taped.few minutes later lights went out not a/c.thanks leaving today and little worried.

[Kevo]

I would suspect it would not be a good idea to run the inverter without some sort of load. It is designed to charge the battery and the the load from the 12v system should come from the battery. Not sure if you have the original inverter or not, but the IOTA that I bought, has circuitry that is designed to raise and drop current, depending on what it reads from the battery.

"As a battery charger, the unit will maintain the battery, delivering its full-rated current when the battery capacity falls sufficiently low. The voltage is set to deliver its maximum current for the necessary period of time to minimize undue stress to the battery caused by heating of its cells. This helps to ensure the longest possible life of the battery. Over time, as the battery nears its full capacity, the DLS-45 will automatically drop the current, providing a float-charge to the battery to prevent self-discharge of the cells."

The fact that they put Battery Charger in bold cant be a mistake...

[lewster]

First, you don't have an inverter, you have a power converter. This unit takes 120VAC current and converts it to 12VDC for use in the trailer's DC circuits and for battery charging.

If you have the original Univolt converter, you WILL need a battery connected, as it acts as a filter for the DC coming from it. The newer switch-mode converters (IOTA DLS55IQ-4 is my personal favorite) can be operated with no battery.

[RTurnConn]

Originally Posted by lewster

First, you don't have an inverter, you have a power converter. This unit takes 120VAC current and converts it to 12VDC for use in the trailer's DC circuits and for battery charging.

If you have the original Univolt converter, you WILL need a battery connected, as it acts as a filter for the DC coming from it. The newer switch-mode converters (IOTA DLS55IQ-4 is my personal favorite) can be operated with no battery.

The owners manual for my 85 Limited (with the original Univolt converter) reads as follows"Operating appliances, lights, fans and radio/tape players without the batteries in the circuit can blow fuses, shorten the life of motors, and ruin expensive electronic circuit boards." I believe my new Progressive Dynamics converter allows me to run shore power without batteries.......I do not however, as a precaution. My batteries are only out when I store the unit for winter.

[TinLoaf]

If the worst case scenario happens and the trailer comes unhitched, the trailer needs the battery to apply the emergency brakes.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Kevo

I would suspect it would not be a good idea to run the inverter without some sort of load. It is designed to charge the battery and the the load from the 12v system should come from the battery. Not sure if you have the original inverter or not, but the IOTA that I bought, has circuitry that is designed to raise and drop current, depending on what it reads from the battery.

"As a battery charger, the unit will maintain the battery, delivering its full-rated current when the battery capacity falls sufficiently low. The voltage is set to deliver its maximum current for the necessary period of time to minimize undue stress to the battery caused by heating of its cells. This helps to ensure the longest possible life of the battery. Over time, as the battery nears its full capacity, the DLS-45 will automatically drop the current, providing a float-charge to the battery to prevent self-discharge of the cells."

The fact that they put Battery Charger in bold cant be a mistake...

From IOTA customer support....


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Crosse [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:44 AM
To: Jay Settlemyre
Subject: Re: IOTA IQ4 question
On Aug 25, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Jay Settlemyre wrote:

Hi Bob,
Yes, it is fine to use our converters as a power supply without a battery attached. The IQ4 will not sense a battery voltage so it will simply remain in the float stage, (13.6v).

Let me know if you have further questions.

Jay Settlemyre
Iota Engineering Tech Support
IOTA Engineering Emergency Fluorescent Ballasts, Emergency Lighting Inverters, and AC/DC Power Converters

Bob

[bryanl]

re: "my new Progressive Dynamics converter allows me to run shore power without batteries.......I do not however, as a precaution. My batteries are only out when I store the unit for winter."

You do your batteries a disservice, I think. Both the PD with chargewizard and the IOTA have good battery maintenance modes that will help keep your battery healthy during storage.

Both the PD and the IOTA are modern power supplies that will provide a clean, regulated power for RV DC appliances whether or not a battery is in the circuit. They have the smarts to sense the battery and its condition and behave appropriately.

[Ofdtruckie]

Thanks alot I have a new dls45 put in by previous owner.I was running my a/c last night off a 20 amp breaker at home doing some work maybe not enough juice.also touched wire on light causing arc but did not blow for 20 min.i just bought new fuses and a battery and when I get home ill try it again before I leave.i appreciate all the help.

[RTurnConn]

Originally Posted by bryanl

re: "my new Progressive Dynamics converter allows me to run shore power without batteries.......I do not however, as a precaution. My batteries are only out when I store the unit for winter."

You do your batteries a disservice, I think. Both the PD with chargewizard and the IOTA have good battery maintenance modes that will help keep your battery healthy during storage.

Both the PD and the IOTA are modern power supplies that will provide a clean, regulated power for RV DC appliances whether or not a battery is in the circuit. They have the smarts to sense the battery and its condition and behave appropriately.

Not sure I get your point. My batteries are in the unit at all times and my converter is on at all times; that does not do my batteries a disservice. If they need no charging they get none, if they do then the wizard kicks in and gives them a charge.
You need to understand that when my unit is in "storage" it is not connected to shore power, but is in a storage lot......keeping my batteries in during freezing weather is definitely doing them a disservice. I think you would agree. You may be lucky enough that when your AS is in storage you have access to shore power. That must be nice.

[Ofdtruckie]

Never had a battery in it before , since its going to be connected to power in one spot for several years didn't think I needed one.well I have one now seems to work except now there's a click click sound like a blinker at umbilical connection every 30 seconds.any ideas would be great since I'm about to drive 6 hours.thanks again

[Kevo]

Originally Posted by lewster

First, you don't have an inverter, you have a power converter. This unit takes 120VAC current and converts it to 12VDC for use in the trailer's DC circuits and for battery charging.

If you have the original Univolt converter, you WILL need a battery connected, as it acts as a filter for the DC coming from it. The newer switch-mode converters (IOTA DLS55IQ-4 is my personal favorite) can be operated with no battery.

I stand corrected, sometimes I just seem to get my terminology wrong...Good Catch !

[Kevo]

Bob,

thanks for the info, this is good news. Always good to have an "inside" source...

[bryanl]

re: "You need to understand that when my unit is in "storage" it is not connected to shore power, but is in a storage lot."

The problem of unpowered storage is rather common.

Batteries risk freezing when they discharge and they discharge themselves when left alone. Freezing isn't the only risk, though. Discharged batteries that just sit grow lead sulfate crystals and this prematurely ages them.

Taking batteries out of potential freezing conditions is a good start. Better would be to put them on a modern battery maintainer (not just trickle or float) that will apply a technique to inhibit sulfation as well as keep a full charge without plate corrosion or electrolyte loss.

The easiest method, if you have power where you store your Airstream, is to use a modern converter such as the PD or Iota, and just leave it powered between trips. If you can't arrange this, then your batteries will need some special attention to assure best health. Removal to prevent freezing is a start but they still need a maintenance and storage charge.

[RTurnConn]

Bryan:thank you for the battery maintainence lecture 101. I have been maintaining stored batteries for many years (successfully I might add). I have a Corvette track car that is not used in the winter, a winch battery for my track car trailer and now two AS batteries. I do not, repeat do not, have power at the storage site and hence the reason for battery removal. I understand the role of my PD when hooked up to shore power........ Don't have that Bryan. Batteries are stored in a heated garage and appropriately maintained during the off season. My corvette battery is coming up on year 5, kinda long for a vette and does just fine... Well maintained off season.. The original question was if a battery was needed when hooked up to shore power .......we kinda wandered off the thread.
Thanks for the input anyway, refreshers are always good.

[bryanl]

re: "Bryan:thank you for the battery maintainence lecture 101." I am very sad that you perceived my posting as suggesting you needed a refresher on a topic in which you feel you are an expert.

There are others that read these threads besides you and I.

Battery maintenance and storage is an issue that causes many RVers problems with their batteries.

Taking offense where none is intended is an issue that causes many threads to have problems.

I try to keep in mind the lurkers and others who may wander through the thread looking for solutions to their battery problems. I also try to avoid personalizing discussions.

[RTurnConn]

I apologize for my comments. I do not consider myself to be an expert, far from it, but what I described is not knowledge that I think only an expert would have.
You "kind of" personalized it when you kept referring to my leaving the AS hooked up to shore power which I had explained in a couple of posts that I did not have.
I realize that a lot of people read these posts and this is not a two way conversation.
Time to move on, that was not the original intent of the thread anyway.
I obviously spend a lot of time on this forum as I have a LOT to learn from more experienced folks. Keep on giving your advice.

[Ofdtruckie]

Thanks guys for the help no problems encountered on my 350 mile trip,pulled perfectly even with my f150.left it hooked up to power with battery attached so far so good.

[Mexray]

Being in the battery sales biz for many years, getting the most out of your batteries, comes down to one basic condition:

Lead-acid (including AGM & GEL's) need to be maintained at a full charge to get the maximum service life...

If you store your batteries, and can't maintain a full charge, you will shorten their life - pure & simple...If this is your pattern of use, you'll just have to replace em' more often!

I always use the example that one's daily driver's battery is always maintained at a full charge by the engine's alternator, hence most batteries in these types of installations last for many years, lets 4-6 years as a rule of thumb...

Your RV's battery should last this long or more, but you'll have to find a way to keep it 'float' charged when not in use, or remove it and maintain the charge periodically on a shelf in your garage, etc...

All batteries of this type will self-discharge as they sit in storage without any float charge - at different rates, depending on construction, temp., etc...Batteries left hooked to the RV's 12 volt system during storage will self-discharge much faster due to minute external loads; circuit boards in accessories, propane alarms, etc...

Also, a battery with a dirty top, will provide a path that can allow a small amount of current to flow between the terminals when moisture is present, as during winter storage months - Brush em' off with some fresh water & dish soap if your batteries are subject to road dust, etc...

One other issue I'm asked about, is about discharging your lead-battery completely before discharging to eliminate any 'memory'???...That's for for other types of storage batteries; tool batteries, video cam batteries, etc, NOT FOR LEAD-ACID BATTERIES!...

The grids inside a L-A battery expand and contract during charge and discharge - the 'deeper' you discharge the battery, the shorter will be it's ultimate life...worse yet, as the grid material erodes during this action, you run the risk of cell failure, in the form of two plates touching...hence that dreaded 'Bad Cell' diagnosis...

Some more Battery, 102...

[TouringDan]

RTurn

Have you considered a solar charger or would this be a security problem at the storage area?

How about charging the Airstream (batteries installed) once a month with a small generator (if you have one)?

On the other hand it may be easier to just take them out, then store and charge them in the heated garage.

Dan

[RTurnConn]

Definately easier fo me to take them out and charge in the garage.