Battery not charging on campground outlet

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

I'd be finding the problem first. And since it's under warranty why bother tearing things apart to figure it out when the dealer can. You can always upgrade later. But it sounds like you don't do a lot of boondocking anyway, so going lithium would be wasted money. My trailer has the converter disconnected so the batteries are only charged via solar since 2016. I rarely plug in. Maybe to run the AC when loading or unloading. But if you're always plugged in what difference does it make if the batteries are this or that. They should be able to store a charge for several weeks if they're not in use.

You indicated the batteries weren't charging or loosing their charge compared to one site over the other. Have you determined that this still the case?

You make a good point. I have dreams of boondocking more. However, the trailer is too long to get to the good locations I’ve found. Interesting you only use solar to charge up. You must have a powerful solar set up. Our factory installed solar is 270W. Not sure if that is enough to keep the batteries charged.

That said, it would be nice to know that we are good to go with power just in case. We may not need it now but you never know what will happen in the future.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

We've never had a problem getting someplace we wanted to go with our 30' Classic. We also spend a *lot* of time off grid. You simply have to do your homework ahead of getting here or there. If your definition of "there" is this campsite and only this campsite, yes that's a problem. It also be a problem with a tent. If you want to "spend two weeks at Yellowstone" that can indeed be done.

270W of solar should be adequate to extend battery life in a sunny spot. If you are in the deep woods or down in a valley ... maybe not. The tanks ( fresh / gray) are what limit us. If you have to go somewhere to dump, charging often is part of the same process. Is that every 6 days or every 12 days? .... depends.

You very much need to be able to see how much power you are using and to manage that power use. Without knowing what's going on, you probably "die" in two days. Seeing / knowing / managing, you can push the same rig out to a week or more.

Fun !!

Bob

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Done the cheap way:

Two Renogy 100AH lithiums at $500 each (on sale)

One converter at $200.

Total parts cost $1,200

No, that's not the way I'd do it. I'd go with BB lithiums at $700 each (on sale) and get a 10 year warranty. I also would not be a beta tester on a brand new battery design .....

Total parts with BB's $1,600

Either way you double the usable amp hours.

Bob

The AS came stock with a WFCO 9800liS series converter. According to the manual, you can use it in Lithium mode by simply placing a jumper wire or remote switch.

Doesn’t that mean I can simply take the 2 AGMs out and drop in a couple of BB lithiums? Sounds easy.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by turonueve

The AS came stock with a WFCO 9800liS series converter. According to the manual, you can use it in Lithium mode by simply placing a jumper wire or remote switch.

Doesn’t that mean I can simply take the 2 AGMs out and drop in a couple of BB lithiums? Sounds easy.

Hi

If the converter uses a jumper for programming, then you want a solid jumper. Do not wire in a switch. To many ways for that to go wrong and no reason to ever throw the switch.

Take a look at how the AGM's are wired in. If they have battery post connectors on the wires, those will need to be changed out. If they have lugs, check the hole size. Many lithiums have "oversized" holes in the lugs. Again a change out.

The solar controller needs to be set up for Lithium. How that's done depends a bit on which controller you have. The Victron controllers are pretty easy.

The charge wire from the 7 pin connector gets disconnected from the DC bus.

That just about takes longer to read than it does to do ....

Bob

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If the converter uses a jumper for programming, then you want a solid jumper. Do not wire in a switch. To many ways for that to go wrong and no reason to ever throw the switch.

Take a look at how the AGM's are wired in. If they have battery post connectors on the wires, those will need to be changed out. If they have lugs, check the hole size. Many lithiums have "oversized" holes in the lugs. Again a change out.

The solar controller needs to be set up for Lithium. How that's done depends a bit on which controller you have. The Victron controllers are pretty easy.

The charge wire from the 7 pin connector gets disconnected from the DC bus.

That just about takes longer to read than it does to do ....

Bob

Wow that is awesome! Can’t believe how simple it is. Even found the official Airstream upgrade PDF from another post. They recommend BB model #BBGC2H.

What about the inverter? The trailer has the 1000W continuous with 2000W surge. Is it worthwhile to upgrade that too?

Arthur

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by turonueve

You make a good point. I have dreams of boondocking more. However, the trailer is too long to get to the good locations I’ve found. Interesting you only use solar to charge up. You must have a powerful solar set up. Our factory installed solar is 270W. Not sure if that is enough to keep the batteries charged.

That said, it would be nice to know that we are good to go with power just in case. We may not need it now but you never know what will happen in the future.

Plenty. I've got 300 watts. But no solar tilt option so I'm never getting the max out of the panels. Plus I'm mostly camped under some sort of tree or at least shaded by one for most of the day. I kept track this summer and the best I pulled in was 14 amps. But 5 is about average. And that is for short periods in the day. So basically diabolical. But it works. Managing your usage and your expectations are key to the success.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by turonueve

Wow that is awesome! Can’t believe how simple it is. Even found the official Airstream upgrade PDF from another post. They recommend BB model #BBGC2H.

What about the inverter? The trailer has the 1000W continuous with 2000W surge. Is it worthwhile to upgrade that too?

Arthur

Hi

AS uses the GC2's. Most of us have had good luck with the more normal looking 100AH version BB10012. Same capacity, same reliability, same warranty for less money.

If you want to go whole hog, you swap out the inverter and converter. The goto item there is a Victron Multiplus 2000 or 3000. The price is near same on both of them. The only reason to do the 2000 is it sometimes fits here or there easier.

Upgrading inverter power gets you into running heavier wires to the inverter. If you put it next to the batteries that's not a big deal. If you keep the batteries in the battery box and the inverter under the sink ... it's a bit of a pain.


Bob

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

AS uses the GC2's. Most of us have had good luck with the more normal looking 100AH version BB10012. Same capacity, same reliability, same warranty for less money.

If you want to go whole hog, you swap out the inverter and converter. The goto item there is a Victron Multiplus 2000 or 3000. The price is near same on both of them. The only reason to do the 2000 is it sometimes fits here or there easier.

Upgrading inverter power gets you into running heavier wires to the inverter. If you put it next to the batteries that's not a big deal. If you keep the batteries in the battery box and the inverter under the sink ... it's a bit of a pain.


Bob

Thanks so much Bob! Great info here.

Nice to know the cheaper BB1002 are basically the same. Do they also fit in the tongue box?

Is there a benefit of upgrading to a higher power inverter? Seems like the 1000w will be fine unless you want to run high output external appliances on battery power. Does the inverter surge do the same thing as a soft start for starting the AC on generator power?

Arthur

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by turonueve

Thanks so much Bob! Great info here.

Nice to know the cheaper BB1002 are basically the same. Do they also fit in the tongue box?

Is there a benefit of upgrading to a higher power inverter? Seems like the 1000w will be fine unless you want to run high output external appliances on battery power. Does the inverter surge do the same thing as a soft start for starting the AC on generator power?

Arthur

Hi

There are an almost infinite number of battery boxes that show up on various AS trailers. The BB100's fit fine in the battery box on a 2017 30' Classic and many similar trailers.

If you want to run the A/C on battery, you will need a *lot* more battery and a *lot* more solar. Unless you are headed for 6 to 8 lithium batteries and a similar number of solar panels, forget about it.

A 2KW or larger inverter will run your microwave and various other kitchen appliances (one at a time ....). Just how long it will run them is very much a "that depends" sort of thing. 2KW out means a bit over 200A into the inverter. A fully charged pair of BB's will keep it running at that level for maybe an hour.

The A/C without a soft start likely pulls around 45A at 120V. That is roughly 5.4 KW. It would try to pull >500A out of the batteries. The BMS likely will shut them down if you try to do that ....

Fun !!!

Bob

[Wazbro]

Is your main campsite well shaded?
Wondering if you converter is not doing anything anywhere. Possibly while towing and at the other site your solar is charging your batteries.

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

The charge wire from the 7 pin connector gets disconnected from the DC bus.

Bob

Bob,

What do you mean by disconnecting the charge wire? How do you do that? Does disconnecting this wire effect the trailer brakes, brake lights & turn signals?
I have a Ram 2500 Cummins diesel.

Arthur

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by turonueve

Bob,

What do you mean by disconnecting the charge wire? How do you do that? Does disconnecting this wire effect the trailer brakes, brake lights & turn signals?
I have a Ram 2500 Cummins diesel.

Arthur

Hi

If you get out your AS manual and look at the electrical diagram, the wiring on the 7 pin connector is shown in that manual. One of the wires on the 7 pin connector is "always on" power. It's intended use is to charge an onboard battery for the beak away system. Thus it gets called the charge wire.

In a typical AS, that wire comes in with the other 7 pin wires to the from of the trailer. The ones that go to the lights / brakes hit a terminal block and head off. The charge wire goes to a thermal breaker and then to the master DC bus for the trailer.

To disconnect the wire, you simply unscrew the nut holding it to the breaker and then tape off the wire.

The charge wire has nothing to do with the brakes or lights. They are powered independently from that circuit.

Bob

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you get out your AS manual and look at the electrical diagram, the wiring on the 7 pin connector is shown in that manual. One of the wires on the 7 pin connector is "always on" power. It's intended use is to charge an onboard battery for the beak away system. Thus it gets called the charge wire.

In a typical AS, that wire comes in with the other 7 pin wires to the from of the trailer. The ones that go to the lights / brakes hit a terminal block and head off. The charge wire goes to a thermal breaker and then to the master DC bus for the trailer.

To disconnect the wire, you simply unscrew the nut holding it to the breaker and then tape off the wire.

The charge wire has nothing to do with the brakes or lights. They are powered independently from that circuit.

Bob

Accessing that wire on my trailer (21 Classic) will involve removing the entire lounge. Does not sound fun.

I called Airstream and they said no additional modification to the 7 way cable (or DC-DC box installation) is needed for towing after the Lithium install.

Battleborn says the same thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxypk8J-0Mg

After watching the Victron “smoking alternator video” it is nice to know that it will not damage the alternator on the tow vehicle (as compared to Class A - C motorhome). I’m sure they sell a lot of the Orion boxes because of their demonstration.

Hopefully the solar will help top-off the last bit of charge or that it doesn’t really matter for most people.

I also know a bunch of full-time non-Airstream folks that have lithiums in their TTs and say it has never been a problem for them.

Is their something specific to AS that I’m (and the experts) are missing?

-Arthur

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by turonueve

Accessing that wire on my trailer (21 Classic) will involve removing the entire lounge. Does not sound fun.

I called Airstream and they said no additional modification to the 7 way cable (or DC-DC box installation) is needed for towing after the Lithium install.

Battleborn says the same thing:


After watching the Victron “smoking alternator video” it is nice to know that it will not damage the alternator on the tow vehicle (as compared to Class A - C motorhome). I’m sure they sell a lot of the Orion boxes because of their demonstration.

Hopefully the solar will help top-off the last bit of charge or that it doesn’t really matter for most people.

I also know a bunch of full-time non-Airstream folks that have lithiums in their TTs and say it has never been a problem for them.

Is their something specific to AS that I’m (and the experts) are missing?

-Arthur

Hi

They are talking about a completely different issue. The problem here is *not* setting your alternator on fire. It's a completely different problem.

There have been a number of posts here on the forum about this. The reason you do it is to keep the lithiums from discharging while you are towing. As long as you are not bothered by the batteries being discharged while you drive (and getting to the campground with batteries 30% down ....) it's not a problem at all. Most of us want to get to the campground with at least much battery power as when we started the drive......

Bob

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

They are talking about a completely different issue. The problem here is *not* setting your alternator on fire. It's a completely different problem.

There have been a number of posts here on the forum about this. The reason you do it is to keep the lithiums from discharging while you are towing. As long as you are not bothered by the batteries being discharged while you drive (and getting to the campground with batteries 30% down ....) it's not a problem at all. Most of us want to get to the campground with at least much battery power as when we started the drive......

Bob

Understand. I’ll see how it goes with my setup and if battery drain is an issue, at least I know what needs to be done.

Thanks so much for helping. I finished installing my BBs yesterday. Not too hard and learned a whole lot.

-Arthur

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by turonueve

Understand. I’ll see how it goes with my setup and if battery drain is an issue, at least I know what needs to be done.

Thanks so much for helping. I finished installing my BBs yesterday. Not too hard and learned a whole lot.

-Arthur

Hi

No problem .....

If you have solar, it's not easy to spot the issue, even with a BMV-712

Bob