Battery not charging

[Joey Joe]

Hi all. Looking for some guidance on my new 2022 30RB Classic. I’m at a seasonal campsite and upon arriving today my battery was at 8% and still draining to power the trailer. I verified that shore power was on but it seems the converter just isn’t providing the DC power that it should be?

On a related note, I’ve noticed for the last month that the battery is often partially discharged, around 60% even when on shore power. I assumed the converter was just programmed to let the battery partially discharge before recharging it. Does this sound right, or should I be looking more closely at the converter for a problem?

Screen shot from my Airstream Smart app attached for reference.

[Jcondon]

What batteries do you have? 12.59 Volts is 100% State of Charge for Lead Acid batteries. AGM is about 12.7 volts for 100%. Lithium would be 13.3 at 100% State of Charge. Let us know.

[Joey Joe]

Sorry. I have LiFePO4 batteries.

Let night I cycled the circuit breaker for the converter, turning it off and back on. I heard the fan kick in, which I hadn’t heard previously. The battery began charging and my CZone was showing a charging current to the batteries.

I put the door back on and noticed the fan stopped after a few minutes and the batteries began discharging again. I cycled the breaker again, and this time left the door off. The batteries have gained a charge overnight (up to 28% now).

I am wondering if there’s not enough air flow under the wardrobe, causing the converter to overheat and shut itself off?

As added info, I think this poor charging has existed since I took delivery a few weeks ago. As long as there’s adequate light, the solar is charging the batteries properly, but my seasonal site is in the shade so I’m relying mostly on the converter for battery charging.

If I want to examine the converter more closely, do I remove the breaker box from the cabinet to get behind it where the converter is located?

[Jcondon]

If your converter is charging your Lithium’s when you are plugged in all of your 12 volt supplies should read 14.4 volts. When unplugged the Lithium’s at rest will drop down to around 13.8 volts at full charge. Do you have a multimeter?

[uncle_bob]

Hi

As you have discovered, the charger does not "cycle" the batteries or anything like that. Either your breaker is bad or the converter has an issue. The air flow under the wardrobe should be plenty for the converter / charger. There is a big open space behind the unit.

Breakers are easy to find / cheap to replace. That's what I would start with on a DIY basis. Since you are very much still in warranty, taking it in for service is the "low cost" approach vs any DIY fix.

Bob

[Joey Joe]

Thanks everyone.

I pulled out the breaker box this morning to get at the converter. The first thing I noticed was that the converter was not screwed into the floor (or anything) and was just lying in the pile of wires under the wardrobe. One of the fuses on the converter was bent from bouncing around during transport.

I pulled the fuse and it wasn’t blown, but was probably pulled out in the process of being bent. I replaced both fuses for good measure (they were both good, other than one being bent) and repowered the unit.

It’s been eight hours now and the batteries have been charging all day, with no sign of discharging. I think the problem is fixed.

Next step will be securing the converter to prevent any more bouncing around…

[Jcondon]

What does your voltage read now on the battery monitor?

[Joey Joe]

Originally Posted by Jcondon

What does your voltage read now on the battery monitor?

Voltage is hovering around 13.2-13.3 V but I am continuing to see the battery increase its SOC on the CZone.

I noticed that my converter is a WFCO 9855-AD (not the 9855-LiS as suggested in the owners manual). The AD is an auto-sensing Pb/Li converter, so no jumpers or switches are required for Li batteries. When on Li batteries, it provides a two-step charging profile, 14.6 V during the quick/bulk charge step (limited to 4 hours), then steps down to 13.6 V for the absorption phase of charging. The absorption phase is designed to be a slower charging rate for battery health, and the CZone tells me it will take 4-5 days to reach maximum charge. One workaround I've found is to cycle the breaker for the converter. This resets it and it will immediately restart in bulk 14.6V mode for a faster charge rate (up to four hours).

The 13.3V I am seeing on the CZone reflects the current condition of the batteries, not the output of the converter. In order to confirm the converter voltage, I would need to disconnect the batteries to get the true converter voltages (per the WFCO owners manual).

[Jcondon]

Your battery monitor should show 14.4 when the converter is charging in bulk mode. I like the BMS to make these decisions not the converter. When you reset the converter it should go right to 14.4. What brand of batteries did they install?

[uncle_bob]

Hi

There is no need at all to "slow charge" a lithium to improve it's lifespan. The charger is so wimpy and the typical battery bank is so large that even "full bore" charging is "slow". For lead acid's its a bit debatable how much they like slow charge. There are a number of examples of them liking fast charge better ..... The charger's "smarts" aren't helping you any in this case.

In theory ( = according to the spec sheet ) the converter should put out 55A when charging. Many many folks have observed that they only put out about 30 to 35A. Is this true of the unit you have? Who knows. I'd bet it is ....

Any battery (lead acid or lithium ) will slowly ramp up to max voltage as it charges. How fast depends on the current the charger supplies. Without a current meter, it's tough to know what's going on.

With a 200AH battery bank and 55A of current, you should be at full charge in < 4 hours. With 30A, seven hours should get it done. Assuming "all day" is > 8 hours, the batteries should have hit 14.4V and stuck there for at least an hour. One would *hope* the charger would idle at 13.6V after that.

The gotcha (based on the spec sheet) is that they show two sets voltages for the lithium battery side of this converter. One is 13.2 to 14.6V. The other is 13.6 to 14.6V. Which one is it? The 13.2 is not a good idea for LiFePO4. The 13.6 is what you want. If it gets "confused" how do you re-educate it? The manual talks only about 13.6V, who knows which one is correct.

Bob

[Joey Joe]

Originally Posted by Jcondon

Your battery monitor should show 14.4 when the converter is charging in bulk mode. I like the BMS to make these decisions not the converter. When you reset the converter it should go right to 14.4. What brand of batteries did they install?

I have Battleborn batteries. And it seems I declared victory too soon. Everything crapped out again today, so I’m going to replace the converter tomorrow.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Joey Joe

I have Battleborn batteries. And it seems I declared victory too soon. Everything crapped out again today, so I’m going to replace the converter tomorrow.

Hi

Another option is to grab a plug in charger and see how it does. You can get one for a bit less money than a new converter. Tacking it on the batteries is simple. If that fixes the issue, you have both a very useful backup item and good data to base your converter swap out on.

Bob

[Jcondon]

The battery monitor should show 14.4 volts whenever the converter is plugged in. The battery cells may or may not be charging due to the BMS but the BMS needs a constant source of 14.4 volts. The converter should not be reducing the voltage after four hours. Replace it.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Jcondon

The battery monitor should show 14.4 volts whenever the converter is plugged in. The battery cells may or may not be charging due to the BMS but the BMS needs a constant source of 14.4 volts. The converter should not be reducing the voltage after four hours. Replace it.

Hi

I have lithiums in the trailer, the van, and the supply tag along. In all of them, the battery monitor does *not* show 14.4V on a battery prior to it's being fully charged.

The voltage on a discharged battery starts out at (maybe) 13V and *slowly* ( = hours ...) moves up to 13.6V or so. At that point it may move pretty quickly to 14.X volts. However, most of the time with a discharged battery, the voltage is *way* below 14V.

It works this way on all of my lithium setups. It does so for a very good reason. The BMS isn't there to waste power .....

Bob

[Joey Joe]

Battery stopped charging around 40% and then began discharging overnight. I disconnected the batteries this morning and charging them separately.

With batteries disconnected, the output of the converter is 13.68V, which is what the manufacturer's manual says it should be (13.6 +/- 0.2 V). I'm at a loss - I want to say the converter is bad, but everything on the trailer is running off the converter right now with no problem and with no batteries connected.

Bad batteries or a bad wiring connection?

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

I have lithiums in the trailer, the van, and the supply tag along. In all of them, the battery monitor does *not* show 14.4V on a battery prior to it's being fully charged.

The voltage on a discharged battery starts out at (maybe) 13V and *slowly* ( = hours ...) moves up to 13.6V or so. At that point it may move pretty quickly to 14.X volts. However, most of the time with a discharged battery, the voltage is *way* below 14V.

It works this way on all of my lithium setups. It does so for a very good reason. The BMS isn't there to waste power .....

Bob

Same on my setup - the voltage doesn't go to 14.4v until some time has passed with the charger doing it's thing. Doesn't matter if it's the Progressive Dynamics doing the charging or the Victron devices doing it (solar & DC-to-DC).

[Joey Joe]

So while running my AS today on the converter with no battery attached (disconnected them and charging them separately), I was monitoring the voltage readings from the Victron controller. The Victron always displayed a little bit lower than the voltage I measured at the converter terminals, but I assumed that is due to some losses in the system between the different components.

What did get my attention was how variable the Victron voltage would fluctuate, and a few times it would drop to 12.5 V, a full volt below the converter voltage (which I was measuring directly in real time).

Is this to be expected without a battery attached to help even out the highs and lows? Could there be an issue with my charge controller that isn’t charging the batteries correctly and letting them discharge? In the image below, the voltage varied a lot over this 15 minute snapshot…

Originally Posted by Joey Joe

Battery stopped charging around 40% and then began discharging overnight. I disconnected the batteries this morning and charging them separately.



With batteries disconnected, the output of the converter is 13.68V, which is what the manufacturer's manual says it should be (13.6 +/- 0.2 V). I'm at a loss - I want to say the converter is bad, but everything on the trailer is running off the converter right now with no problem and with no batteries connected.



Bad batteries or a bad wiring connection?

[Daquenzer]

I assume you don’t have the switch on “in store” mode. I’m not sure how the 2022’s work, but my 2017 must be in the “in use” mode to charge the batteries while on shore power. Just checking

[Jcondon]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Same on my setup - the voltage doesn't go to 14.4v until some time has passed with the charger doing it's thing. Doesn't matter if it's the Progressive Dynamics doing the charging or the Victron devices doing it (solar & DC-to-DC).

I have two trailers both with Renogy smart lithium’s, Renogy rover solar chargers and Renogy DC to DC chargers. The converter is a fixed output Boondocker Lithium that I have adjusted to a constant 14.4. I have the converter unplugged because the solar keeps the SOC in the 90% range. When I plug in the converter the voltage goes to 14.4 in seconds on both the solar charger and the smart lithium monitor. The Renogy App agrees with this. The SOC slowly raise to 100% and the BMS cuts off the charging current. The voltage stays at 14.4 whenever the solar charger or the converter is charging. They are both fixed output. You all don’t have enough charging voltage.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Jcondon

I have two trailers both with Renogy smart lithium’s, Renogy rover solar chargers and Renogy DC to DC chargers. The converter is a fixed output Boondocker Lithium that I have adjusted to a constant 14.4. I have the converter unplugged because the solar keeps the SOC in the 90% range. When I plug in the converter the voltage goes to 14.4 in seconds on both the solar charger and the smart lithium monitor. The Renogy App agrees with this. The SOC slowly raise to 100% and the BMS cuts off the charging current. The voltage stays at 14.4 whenever the solar charger or the converter is charging. They are both fixed output. You all don’t have enough charging voltage.

Hi

The *only* reason you see that happening is because the batteries are already at full charge.

Bob