Wind power

[Charot]

Has anyone used Primus Windpower in conjunction with solar panels? I will be operating a salon out of my airstream and solar will not be enough. I am also looking for clean generator options. Has anyone used Nature’s Generator or Lion Energy? Looking for the cleanest footprint to get a good amount of offshore power. Thank you!



Natalie

[ROBERT CROSS]

Bought one...

...a 13+lb object on a 20ft pole needing at least a steady 15mph wind to generate a useable amount, operating next to the AS didn't compute...plus they aren't quiet...I returned it.

I now use two portable solar panels,360w and a duel fuel Honda 2000i generator.

Bob
🇺🇸

[Hans627]

When I thin of salons I think of hair dryers. Anything that generates heat uses a lot of power. I would doubt that wind and/or solar would provide adequate power to run a salon.

But I'm interested in what others think as well.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

There are a number of threads here from folks who have tried it. You can also head over to the boat forums and get a *lot* of data on how well it works.

Bottom line: you need a *lot* of wind to get these things putting out their rated power. 20 to 30 Knots is a *lot* of wind. That needs to be what hits the turbine. Even if you are in an area with those sort of winds, you likely will not see them near your trailer.

Simple answer ... don't bother unless you are on a sail boat and out on the ocean.

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

^
And even on a sailboat...wind speed over the blades can change a lot depending on heading, some are adapting the prop and an auxiliary alternator for regen.

Bob
🇺🇸

[Crackerman]

There is one option that is about to hit the market, uses sail cloth, poles and ropes. Can generate substantial electricity in 7mph winds (400w) and packs away neatly. After it's assembled the rotor is 12ft in diameter. It's truly made for off grid campers, not adapted from a different application. I'll have to find the name of it.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Crackerman

There is one option that is about to hit the market, uses sail cloth, poles and ropes. Can generate substantial electricity in 7mph winds (400w) and packs away neatly. After it's assembled the rotor is 12ft in diameter. It's truly made for off grid campers, not adapted from a different application. I'll have to find the name of it.

Hi

.... and I though that dealing with the awning and high winds was a gotcha ...

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

Great idea Bob...An awning generator, maybe an adaptation where we could leave it out while driving to regenerate everything.
Leaving it up to you for the future development let us know when you have it ready.

Bob
🇺🇸

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Mount the 12' diameter rotor on top of the trailer and head down the road !!!

So: is the restriction on not driving more than 7 MPH a bigger issue than the 22' clearance under bridges .... hmmm ...

Bob

[panamerican]

You know, although not sure how this would work yet, and understanding that every watt generated this way carries a fuel cost, this thread got me thinking......

What if there was a smaller wind generator. When we tow we travel on average between 45mph and 70mph. What if there was a smaller device you could bolt to the "A" frame to spin as the rig is moving? Clearly this won't help a stationary RV, but as we see the introduction of things like 12v compressor fridges, inadequate solar from the factory, and of course mother nature not cooperating (lack of sun, or trees in the way for solar), what if you could bolt a smaller version of this to primarily add power as you are moving in conjunction with solar or all by itself. Maybe even make it detachable to place on a modest and realistic pole when stationary to capture as many volts as possible. This one free spins at a very low wind MPH and though this one is still way too tall for what I'm suggesting and it's been designed for home use, what if it could be halved and maybe as such get half the power of the bigger brother? It could still generate upward of 375 watts while in transit.

https://www.tesup.us/product-page/at...ine-for-houses

[Gene]

What kind of salon? Will the trailer stay in one place for a long time? Why can’t you plug into the grid? What about water and sewer?

A salon could mean hair, nails, beauty stuff, or a group of intellectuals sitting around in a room or hotel restaurant (look up Algonquin Hotel and Dorothy Parker) discussing events,
literature and being catty. The last one seems more interesting to me.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by panamerican

You know, although not sure how this would work yet, and understanding that every watt generated this way carries a fuel cost, this thread got me thinking......

What if there was a smaller wind generator. When we tow we travel on average between 45mph and 70mph. What if there was a smaller device you could bolt to the "A" frame to spin as the rig is moving? Clearly this won't help a stationary RV, but as we see the introduction of things like 12v compressor fridges, inadequate solar from the factory, and of course mother nature not cooperating (lack of sun, or trees in the way for solar), what if you could bolt a smaller version of this to primarily add power as you are moving in conjunction with solar or all by itself. Maybe even make it detachable to place on a modest and realistic pole when stationary to capture as many volts as possible. This one free spins at a very low wind MPH and though this one is still way too tall for what I'm suggesting and it's been designed for home use, what if it could be halved and maybe as such get half the power of the bigger brother? It could still generate upward of 375 watts while in transit.

https://www.tesup.us/product-page/at...ine-for-houses

Hi

Simple answer is that the drag a device like that creates while in motion will hit your gas miles more heavily than any benefit you would get from it. Better to put the fuel into a generator ..... No free lunch.

Bob

[Gene]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Simple answer is that the drag a device like that creates while in motion will hit your gas miles more heavily than any benefit you would get from it. Better to put the fuel into a generator ..... No free lunch.

Bob

Not sure anyone has ever tested that and it sounds like the post is an assumption. But, I doubt there is much to gain from a windmill on a vehicle while moving and solar seems much more productive—also assumptions. I looked into the price of windmills to generate electricity at home and the cost is quite high. Solar was much more efficient.

People turn Airstreams into businesses such as coffee shops. I saw one uses as a skate rental place next to a skating rink in Lakewood, Colo. Sometimes ones that still move are used for business too. I think I read of a dog grooming business that went to meet the dogs at their homes. I would think a “salon” needs more than electricity. I wonder if such a business could justify the investment into an Airstream with necessary modifications, possibly a permanent parking spot unless the customers are very wealthy and willing to spend a lot because of the Airstream. You could get an old one pretty cheap that doesn’t move and shine it up and that may be the way to do it, but plumbing, etc., modifications would be necessary,

[uraljohn]

Originally Posted by Charot

Has anyone used Primus Windpower in conjunction with solar panels? I will be operating a salon out of my airstream and solar will not be enough. I am also looking for clean generator options. Has anyone used Nature’s Generator or Lion Energy? Looking for the cleanest footprint to get a good amount of offshore power. Thank you!



Natalie

Interesting concept. How are you going to deal with licensing and local health code requirements for a Salon? I am assuming you mean a Hair Salon. Finding a place to stay and operating a business for profit out of your AS may require some study as to where you might be able to do that. Even if your off the grid there are rules about Salons. Just some food for thought.

As for cleaner energy a generator operating on propane may be a bit cleaner than gasoline or diesel but it still has emissions. Your going to need some serious battery capacity and some way to keep them charged.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Gene

Not sure anyone has ever tested that and it sounds like the post is an assumption. But, I doubt there is much to gain from a windmill on a vehicle while moving and solar seems much more productive—also assumptions. ....,

Hi

The question was about mounting one on a trailer to generate power as you go down the road.

Basic physics:

The windmill creates drag.

Some (bit not all) of that drag goes into rotary motion.

That drag slows down your vehicle.

The vehicle engine needs to work harder to get you back up to speed.

The engine uses more fuel to do so.

Windmills are not very efficient. A generator will do a better job converting fuel to electricity.

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Mount the 12' diameter rotor on top of the trailer and head down the road !!!

So: is the restriction on not driving more than 7 MPH a bigger issue than the 22' clearance under bridges .... hmmm ...

Bob

How about a spinning pole dancer inside the trailer wouldn't generate some electricity? Anyway I think I saw a picture of a pole in an Airstream, now we need to find someone to spin.

Bob
🇺🇸

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

The question was about mounting one on a trailer to generate power as you go down the road.

Basic physics:

The windmill creates drag.

Some (bit not all) of that drag goes into rotary motion.

That drag slows down your vehicle.

The vehicle engine needs to work harder to get you back up to speed.

The engine uses more fuel to do so.

Windmills are not very efficient. A generator will do a better job converting fuel to electricity.

Bob

There may be some truth to this bc on the Chevy Volt it had a horrendous air buffering event when at speed and windows down. GM redesigned the side mirror with an ever slight bump to change the airflow. Owners reported a 1-2 mile range drop after install, which when you have only around 50 electric miles, it's not insignificant.

Using the methods discussed, I'm wondering how many other things that are glued or screwed to the Airstream create drag worse than that of a small wind generator.....awning(s) comes to mind, large solar panels up top, TV antennas, etc.....So to generate 400 watts of power with a small wind turbine, understanding there is no free lunch, I can't help but wonder how much drag this would take vs some of the other things.... and what would that delta look like exactly. Are we talking 1MPG? 2? A loss of 50 miles per tank and how does that delta compare to other drag items already on the Airstream? This is where my engineering stops. I guess I could, if I had the time, buy a small unit, attach it to my rig and see how it effects my mpg.

I don't disagree that a generator provides a far more efficient use of fuel, but if I am already in motion, and it's a cloudy 2-3 days on my way to my destination, we all know the 7 way umbilical cord doesn't do all that much, and with clouds, even the best solar isn't gonna keep my 12v compressor fridge going for long...so what kind of delta do you think we are we talking about. If it's 50 miles of range on a tankful, is that worth not loosing your entire fridges contents? And what if it became fully integrated into the bellypan or even the body of the trailer like a RAM air..but I digress....

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by panamerican

There may be some truth to this bc on the Chevy Volt it had a horrendous air buffering event when at speed and windows down. GM redesigned the side mirror with an ever slight bump to change the airflow. Owners reported a 1-2 mile range drop after install, which when you have only around 50 electric miles, it's not insignificant.

Using the methods discussed, I'm wondering how many other things that are glued or screwed to the Airstream create drag worse than that of a small wind generator.....awning(s) comes to mind, large solar panels up top, TV antennas, etc.....So to generate 400 watts of power with a small wind turbine, understanding there is no free lunch, I can't help but wonder how much drag this would take vs some of the other things.... and what would that delta look like exactly. Are we talking 1MPG? 2? A loss of 50 miles per tank and how does that delta compare to other drag items already on the Airstream? This is where my engineering stops. I guess I could, if I had the time, buy a small unit, attach it to my rig and see how it effects my mpg.

I don't disagree that a generator provides a far more efficient use of fuel, but if I am already in motion, and it's a cloudy 2-3 days on my way to my destination, we all know the 7 way umbilical cord doesn't do all that much, and with clouds, even the best solar isn't gonna keep my 12v compressor fridge going for long...so what kind of delta do you think we are we talking about. If it's 50 miles of range on a tankful, is that worth not loosing your entire fridges contents? And what if it became fully integrated into the bellypan or even the body of the trailer like a RAM air..but I digress....

Hi

Put a DC/DC converter on your 7 pin. You will get a *lot* more power far more efficiently than rigging a wind turbine. The $70 full delivered price is also a whole lot less than that turbine will run ....

Is there drag from this and that? Sure there is. It's being "paid for" by your reduced MPG when towing. Adding something else will reduce that MPG. A generator will fully charge 200AH of lithium's from flat to full on less than a gallon of gas.

Bob

[CMHM]

When I read these types of discussions I feel many of us in this forum could one day get together and create a sort of innovation lab for the RV industry. Beyond windmills, we discussed docking stations, and many other business ideas. I work in the startup world, if anyone is interested we could get Airstream on board and discuss a venture of sorts. There is no better and no better-experienced user group than us – especially if Uncle Bob joins

[Gene]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

The question was about mounting one on a trailer to generate power as you go down the road.

Basic physics:

The windmill creates drag.

Some (bit not all) of that drag goes into rotary motion.

That drag slows down your vehicle.

The vehicle engine needs to work harder to get you back up to speed.

The engine uses more fuel to do so.

Windmills are not very efficient. A generator will do a better job converting fuel to electricity.

Bob

Probably true, but still assumptions. Restating the same reasoning does not make it true.

If I remember, the person with the pole in an Airstream was Pamela Anderson.

I doubt Airstream would invest in product development. Thor Industries, the owner, always looks for the quick buck and what the next quarter results are. I do agree there are lots of interesting ideas on the Forum. Out of any ideas, usually only a few will work. Investors who invest in idea factories want a major portion of the results and ownership.