US Carburetion Propane Conversion NOT Recommended

[robstar]

Day Five

1. Today I double checked all my fittings and connections based on photos I took PRIOR to sending the carb to US Carb when the genny was operating 1st / 2nd pull on gasoline. Everything seems to be in the same place it was other than the gasoline nipple and gasoline fuel line are both capped off and of course US Carb added the propane inlet/hose.

2. I not only double checked the spark plug gap for .020 again but I also tried several larger gaps up to about .030 and a somewhat smaller gap (my gauge only goes to .020)

3. I unplugged the ON/OFF switch to take it out of the equation

4. I tried a larger ID vapor hose between the zero-governor and the carb with larger fittings; that hose was about 12-15" long total.

5. Also double checked that the carburetor bowl drain plug/screw is tight

About the best I can get is maybe a < 1 second sputter if I use full choke and pull once or twice, then open the choke a little. This is inconsistent at best but that is the only pattern I can see.

Robert Cross: I did look for that yellow colored hose you have at two different hobby shops but they only had it in smaller diameters. It sort of looks like you mated some surgical / medical tubing to or over yours in some way? The yellow hose I found at the hobby shops is "Du-Bros" brand I think. However, I'm as positive as I can be that there is no kink in my hose especially with the new shorter hose and the cover panel propped open. If you take a look at my photos I'm pretty much running the same routing as you are. What do you mean by "make sure my carb is sealed" where would I seal it other than the gasoline input nipple?

I think it is beyond time at this point for US Carb to step up and pay to have the entire system, genny, parts and all shipped back and make the system work AS ADVERTISED and AS PROMISED. The steps I've taken, detailed feedback, tests, detailed photos, suggestions from all of you and time I've spent on this have far exceeded anything or anyone would consider "reasonable and customary". US Carb needs to make it right and make it work consistently on both propane and gasoline without me THE CUSTOMER having to perform any extraordinary or magic starting sequence. As it is now, it's a patched together piece of crap! "FrankenGenny" Even if it started in this new configuration with the shorter hose I can't close the cover.

Granted US Carb said they'd call me on Monday or Tuesday but what could they offer up that you nice people have not suggested already?

There's something more than the wind and cold weather that is bitter in Las Vegas today! ;-}

Thanks again!

Robert

[halimer]

Robert,

Your ordeal with the Honda is giving me second thoughts in not purchasing a a tri-fuel Yamaha 2400 from US Carb.

Mark

[robstar]

Hey Mark,

I'm way beyond "second thoughts" on US Carb but I'm stuck with the gal I brought to the dance so to speak and have to see it through. That means either make them make it right, buy a new carb and take this one back to gasoline only and/or buy a complete out of the box ready to go system from another manufacturer / conversion company.

I'm committed to owning a propane powered Honda generator in some configuration and will do so via some method.

As far as my advice to you; check out the company up in Maine that sells Honda's already converted and ready to go. Here's the link:

Triple-Fuel Honda EU2000i Inverter Generator

All companies and products occasionally have problems; it's how a company handles it from that point forward. US Carb never answers the phone and they did not respond to repeated emails requesting tech support until I literally FLOODED their fax machine with faxes in something like 60pt type. In fact, the ONLY time they contact me is when I flood their fax machine.

Consequently, after 20 days now on this Forum I stand by my original subject title and double it:

US Carburetion Propane Conversion NOT Recommended !!!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Robstar,

Have you tried removing you gas return line to the tank and capping the nipple. If you don't plan on running petrol that would eliminate the possibility of a vacuum leak through the line. Make sure you can blow thru the line with no restrictions.

[robstar]

Hi Robert C. !

I definitely do NOT plan on using gasoline except in an emergency.

Are you referring to the line I've roughly outlined in the photo below?

If so, I've not done anything with that line. It seems to be attached into the crankcase? If I remove and plug it, from which end should I do that and in which direction would I blow towards; the tank or the motor?

Sorry to be so uneducated about motors; it probably comes natural to most of you but it's painfully not for me. By the same token, I can tech support PCs and Macs all day (though not my profession) and have the patience to do so... and professionally I'm an excellent Steadicam, aerial and underwater camera operator for film and television. No doubt I should keep my day job and not open a small or large engine repair shop!

Thanks again!

Robert

[AirsDream]

Just so you know, I too have been following your troubles with considerable interest (and probably a lot of other folks have been also). I'm unfortunately not able to help, as I know nothing about Honda generators. But, I've been considering buying a Yamaha 2400 from them, all set for tri-fuel - but given your lack of customer support, especially when having this much trouble, this is giving me more than second thoughts. If they can't figure out how much damage is being done to what sounds like an already shaky reputation, my view is that they won't be around for long. Can't see buying from them. I'll look for another vendor.

[halimer]

Robert/Robstar,

Thanks for the link. I will definitely check into that company in Bangor when I am ready to purchase a tri-fuel Yamaha 2400.

Mark

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by robstar

By the same token, I can tech support PCs and Macs all day

Well ANYBODY can tech support a Mac! And would never take all day if you had too!

[robstar]

Day Six... and the saga continues on!

US Carb called this morning and sent me yet another convoluted set of steps to start the unit, none of which worked.

They also tried to pawn the problems off on "your tanks look somewhat new and they may need to be purged". So, I took FOUR tanks down to the refill house and had all four purged by a tech using some sort of purging machine that looks like a little compressor. Then I had the tanks refilled and personally watched the liquid propane come out the purge valve.

Still none of that worked.

After all this, the US Carb tech said "The Owner" has agreed to pay for shipping the whole genny and parts back to them for inspection and repair.

They topped that nice piece of customer service off by insisting I sign and return a faxed document / contract that if they find that my genny or my work is the problem then I have to pay them for the shipping plus $40 an hour for labor!

As you can well imagine, after all the hassles, time, testing and junk I've been through this kind of gives me a real nice warm and fuzzy feeling to be treated so fairly as a customer; guilty until proven innocent. Of course I'm screwed either way because all they have to do is say it's my fault and I have no way or knowledge to prove otherwise. They had no response when I asked them if they find it's a US Carb issue were they going to compensate me for the six days I've spent on it?

No doubt there's a profanity policy here on this fine Forum but please use your most vivid imagination as to my thoughts on all this. Buyer beware with US Carb.

Again, a million thanks to everyone here who's suffered through my long whining posts and sub-idiot mechanical questions and especially to those of you who put a lot of thought / work into it.

Wayne & Sam... you're right! I'm a Mac guy and this conversion sure ain't no Mac!

Happy New Years to all and I'll update you when and if this thing ever gets resolved.

Robert "Sore Cranking Arms" Starling
Las Vegas, NV

[ROBERT CROSS]

Robert,
Any positive up-dates?

[robstar]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Robert,
Any positive up-dates?

Well, actually yes there is a "potentially" positive update as of this morning and Robert C., you were on-target all along the way with your method even though US Carb didn't know it at the time.

First off, I still don't have the genny back yet but US Carb called this morning with an explanation of the problem and said it would ship today.

Here's the scoop:

The first zero-governor they sent was defective... duh!

The second one was fine but they also sent a LARGER hose and a LARGER load block to go with it. They also told me to open the Load adjustment screw more with this new set up.

The ultimate problem was (after the new governor was installed) that the carb was flooding due to the huge hose they added and of course the wide-open load block adjustment.

The said it took them a few hours to sort it out and that they had not done very many Honda's.... duh again!

They found that they needed to use a smaller more flexible hose (sound familiar Robert?) and just barely a turn out on the load block adjustment screw.

So Robert Cross, you were on target with the smaller hose all along and your act / action of convenience was actually why your genny works so well. Ultimately I don't think they used RC fuel line but I have not seen it yet.

I'm off to shoot a commercial job in the Turks & Caicos Islands in the Caribbean later this week and through next week so I probably won't have it in my hands until the 24th or so. We'll see then if they really fixed it and I'll post photos of the new set up. They swore to me on the phone this morning that they have it running with gasoline and propane 100%.

Hopefully this will be all behind us and we can move on. I'd like to order a Honda 3000 at some point or another EU2000 but it won't be from US Carb.

Thanks again to everyone!

Robert

[halimer]

Robert,

I hope everything works when you get the generator it back. You should be canonized for what you went through. US Carb should pay the entire tab and give you another EU 2000 for the grief that made you go through.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Bob,

Sounds promising, keep us posted.

Have a safe trip!!!

[robstar]

Sorry for the long absence and lack of update but work seems to get in the way of things.

My Honda is back from US Carb and it started within the first 2-3 pulls; as it should have from the beginning.

They pretty much mirrored Robert's set up, they added a pitcock to shut the gasoline line on-off, used a smaller flexy hose like Robert has on his genny and eved added a quick release to that so I can pull the cover off completely. They installed my tachometer as well.

Once the genny was warmed up and running I used the load-block adjustment screw to fine tune the idle. What I found there was that the acceptable adjustment for that screw is no more than 1/4 to 1/2 turn in either direction before it became rough and/or stalled out. Based on the half-a$$ thing they called the installation / instruction manual it would have been purely the luck of the draw to have found such a small setting / range that would have allowed the genny to start had the initial parts not been defective etc..

Again, thanks to everyone here for the suggestions, advice, photos and support. Sorry to have whined about it so long but at least that part is over now.

In retrospect I would still not recommend US Carb propane generator conversions to anyone; run the opposite direction!

My next acquisition will be a Honda EU3000 and I'll get that one from the company that builds and sells them pre-converted from their factory. It's painfully obvious I'm not mechanically inclined.

All the best!

Robert

[ROBERT CROSS]

Glad everything? work'd. I know it was a PITA for you.

What about cost? Hope they took care of that also.

Good luck!!!

[robstar]

Hi Robert C.,

Again, thanks for your help!

They paid shipping there and back and after all this hassle still charged me $10 for the pitcock, nickel and diming...

Regardless, it's up and running and something to mark off my list finally.

All the best!

Robert

[US CARB]

We would like to reply to some of the reviews on this forum that have been posted regarding US Carburetion, Inc. Even though we are the newest management we are sorry for any inconveniences that some may have experienced a few years ago. After checking our records, it is a fact that we had some issues that were the result of quality control by the manufacturer of our engine regulators. The company was required to bench test all assembled zero governors and apparently did not abide by the contract which caused performance issues. Unfortunately, it takes some customers having problems before the situation comes to light. However, once identified and corrected, all customers were fully taken care of to their ultimate satisfaction. That manufacturer was terminated. We painstakingly design our systems so that those who are mechanically inclined have very few problems installing our conversion kits on their generators. The most common problem is the use of a new, incorrectly purged, propane tank which makes most installers think it's the engine conversion equipment.

As far as our customer relations, we have worked hard over the last couple of years to hire more staff to handle all the emails and phone calls that we receive. We continue to grow and expand every year. And we are taking positive steps to keep up with expansion. US Carburetion has been in business for 15 years now thanks to our thousands of satisfied customers. For our volume of business, we take seriously even a few misunderstandings that we have had along the way. This management is committed to correcting any issue a customer may have and always to their complete satisfaction.

[pmclemore]

Thanks for responding to this thread - as a customer, my only concern was with the lack of communication. I hope you will continue with this as time goes on.

I think using propane with our Yamaha generators is a neat way to get power when you can't plug in. US Carb did mine, and I'd do it again.

Thanks - Pat

[robstar]

My neighbor recently converted an old genny he bought on Craigslist and it went very well for him. Once resolved mine continues to work well.

It's good to see US Carb's new management getting involved here and working toward change. I guess until we see a broader spectrum of customer comments on the "new team" the verdict is still out for me.

It's pretty hard for me to get past the months of agony I went through dealing with US Carb, the extra time/money I spent packaging and then shipping the unit back to the factory, the frustration of lack of communication and their attitude of indifference when I did reach them. They treated me like I was trying to rip them off of something when all I was trying to do was get their product to work. Never an apology, never any sign of customer service. Total strangers on this forum spent more time and energy helping me than US Carb did.

I plan to buy and convert another Honda soon but I just don't know if I'd be willing to risk getting burned again.

Robert

[ROBERT CROSS]

Been off-line for awhile, good to see US Carb participation....

Any first-hand experience with the CS lately...

Rob...glad to hear yours is finally working