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Old 03-27-2019, 06:24 AM   #21
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2018 27' Globetrotter
Apollo Beach , Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirMiles View Post
I think the drop-ins are lacking the technology to cut off battery charging when they are full, which is why the complicated engineering masterpiece installations are still needed.

AirMiles

I am a bit confused. My understanding is that the converter or the solar controller controls the charging of the batteries. When they are full, about 13.5 volts, they receive no charge from the converter or the solar controller. I have only a solar controller with no complicated engineering masterpiece and it stops charging my lithiumís at the 13.5 volt setpoint.

Dan


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdavitt View Post
Dan,
Yes, that has been the standard for years. However, with the new BMS technologies, the batteries control the charging sources. You have to admit, that makes sense. Who better to know what they need than the batteries themselves.
Pat
I've been following the Lithium for a while and like what is happening with the drop-in Lithium batteries. I put a lot of faith into what the www.marinehowto.com site has to say about batteries. He is an ABYC electrical systems specialist, a manufacturer of marine products and components such as alternators, and specializes & focuses on energy management systems for both design/engineering and installation. He is also an active member of the ABYC committee that is working on the safety standards for high capacity batteries. He has many thousands of hours of testing LFP cells in regards to house bank or off-grid type of use. He's destroyed well in excess of $4k in LFP cells during this testing, both in prismatic and cylindrical form factors. This testing has given him a better understanding of how these cells behave and what charging & use practices may be damaging.

Beyond all that he has a 400Ah LiFePo4 bank on his own boat since 2011. He is a huge fan of LFP banks, for many reasons, but does not act as a ďfan boyĒ for the technology. Fan boying a product that is so expensive, and so easy to ruin, would be unfair to the readers of MHT. He does his best to give you both sides of the story, not just the ďfan boyĒ side of LFP.

MarineHowTo.com does not currently sell LiFePO4 batteries or BMS systems. The advice here is not intended to get you to buy something from us, it is for you to learn something from so you can get what you paid for when you finally make your own decision.

Here is what he has to say about Lithiums: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ He can describe my concerns about drop-in Lithiums much better than I can.

He also has a great article on Lead Acid batteries: https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/

And another on AGM: https://marinehowto.com/how-fast-can...ry-be-charged/
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:34 AM   #22
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
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Great links, thanks.

I would encourage everyone to read this article:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirMiles View Post
. . .
Here is what he has to say about Lithiums: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ He can describe my concerns about drop-in Lithiums much better than I can.
. . .
Thanks again for the links . . . lots of information and data to digest!

For now, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" covers our standard flooded cell battery setup, especially given that we often need to keep our batteries charged in very cold weather.

Peter
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:07 AM   #23
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PS . . . plus our Yamaha 1000 propane-fired generator provides the ability to charge the batteries whenever permitted by the CG. A huge convenience with very little added weight.

Peter
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:12 AM   #24
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2005 25' International CCD
Sarasota , Florida
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Another way

I upgraded quite a few things in my 25í International and am finding the system optimal. I have two Lifeline 8D AGMs (510-amp hours/255 usable) under the front couch, a Magnum 3000-watt hybrid inverter/charger, 200 watts of solar panels on the roof with 80 watts of Zamp Solar portable panels, a Victron MPPT Bluetooth solar controller, and a Honda 2000-watt portable generator. I also have a Goal Zero Sherpa 100AC power bank that has a lithium battery, USB-A ports, 2 USB-C ports, a Qi wireless charger for my iPhone, and an A/C inverter. All my electronics are charged through this ó itís very portable and can be legally taken on airline flights. The Honda generator/hybrid inverter does allow me to run my air conditioner. System has lots of flexibility but was not cheap. When the Lifelines die (8 to 10 years?), I will replace them with lighter lithium batteries or whatever the new tech offers. Another way...
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:39 PM   #25
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2018 27' Globetrotter
Mooresville , North Carolina
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I appreciate this forum for all the different ideas that are out there and how everyone can find the solution that works for their situation. This Goal Zero things still intrigues me even more after reading all the responses. My wife and I have been camping for 30 plus years so we know what our needs are. We started with a tent, went to a Class C then to a Class A diesel pusher before going to the Airstream. The Airstream is perfect for our lifestyle at this time but we did get spoiled by the 2,000W inverter / 4 house batteries and in house generator of the Class A. The 2 house batteries and the 1,000W inverter in our Globetrotter just donít compare to the Class A setup . The 1000W inverter is good for the Television / DVD but that is about it. The ease of towing and getting around with the Globetrotter is a lot less stressful than the Class A Diesel pusher.

On a recent 5 week trip this past Fall we found that out current set up works fine if you have sunny weather and no extended rain. We can go indefinitely with power from solar and the honda generator with no issues. If we have just clouds or shade there is no issue as I just fire up the generator from the bed of my truck. However, throw in 27 degree weather or continuous rain for multiple days then batteries drain and solar is of no use to recharge them.

Call me spoiled but if have rainy weather and low batteries the last thing I want to do is go outside and fire up the generator in the rain / cold to have enough battery power to function. I also donítí want to go outside to back up the truck in the rain / cold to hook it up to the TT and have my diesel disturb me and my neighbors. Donít get me wrong, I can do all these things and I have, but I would prefer not to. In my Class A, if the batteries were low, I just press a button to turn on the generator and life is good. If the batteries were not low, the 4 batteries would work the coffee maker and the microwave if necessary.

We prefer sites that are more natural versus commercial and have no problems with limited services. However, if we have no hookups, we prefer to stay dry and warm if the weather is cold and wet. On this trip we had some extraordinary weather circumstances we donít normally have but it made us aware of certain things we would like to address for our future camping. If Pteck is correct that the Goal Zero can be integrated into the RVís 12V system it wouldíve solved a lot of the issues we are trying to resolve without buying any permanent additions to our RV ( permanent batteries or permanent solar panels).

In addition, I would have the Goal Zero for a) football tailgating available for TV / blenders / fan / etc with no generator noise or fumes b) would power my home refrigerator, inside my home, when power goes out instead of firing up my generator and having the extension cord run inside through a crack in the door.

Iím not sure I would buy the Goal Zero if it only met my home or RV needs. However, if it can help with both it would be a good choice and one that Iím still evaluating.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:34 PM   #26
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1995 34' Excella
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The Everyday Man's Lithium Upgrade

GOUSC

Your logic makes perfect sense to me. You get about an additional 72 AH of battery for your Airstream, assuming a 90 AH lithium battery, a 1,500 watt inverter to run a hairdryer or microwave, power to run your home refrigerator and then power for football tailgating for whatever is needed.

Dan
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Old 03-27-2019, 11:03 PM   #27
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2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , Milky Way
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Stealing a Portable Solar System...🤔

Isn't the point of portable system is that it's portable?
... storing at night or when away is not a problem.
We do have a 30ft cable lock for day time if we feel it's needed.

Bob
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:10 PM   #28
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2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
Barnstable , Massachusetts
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I went the expensive, overly complex, difficult to understand route, and absolutely love the results. It runs itself as I watch over it like a doting grandfather!
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:54 PM   #29
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2019 16' Sport
Worthington , Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventure.AS View Post
I understand your desire to have more 12V - amp hours. There are other low cost alternatives to your idea.

I have found that with two AGM group 27 batteries I have enough capacity to power the trailer (including the furnace) for at least 24 hours.

If off grid I prefer to quickly recharge the house batteries from my running TV (at a much higher rate than a portable generator) by using a 2-gauge quick connect power cable kit in the tow vehicle (incorporating a battery isolator) to short a quick connect cable set connected to the house batteries. I can even use my remote start from inside the trailer to recharge the batteries in the middle of the night if needed. This probably costs less than the Goal Zero and saves the weight of carrying around the Goal Zero.

I do carry a portable lithium jump start kit. This will charge USB devices as well as start your TV if needed, or run an air pump. It can also be charged from your car cigar lighter.

If you wanted to have a second pure sine wave inverter you could use the CarGenerator that can provide up to 1000 watts.
Adventure AS: When using the "Warn" brand disconnects you mentioned to charge the Trailer battery from the idling TV, why are you using the longer (20 ft) cables which are expensive ($200 plus), rather than the 90 inch cable kit which is less than half the price, about $85? Does the 20 ft cable kit contain something important? You mentioned a battery isolator? Is that the solenoid?
When I jump start the kid's car from the truck, I don't use a battery isolator. We just use cables. Or is the use of a battery isolator is something that becomes important because one is leaving the batteries connected over an extended period of time?
Thanks.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:20 PM   #30
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1985 31' Excella
st. Paul , mn
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Goal Zero - is way - way over priced .
A idling TV has almost not charging amps - lead batteries should be charge at the C-charge rate - manufactures spec. , that's is commonly much higher than a idling TV can put out , the TV should be at / or above 1,300 RPM to get any kind of reasonable charging .
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:32 PM   #31
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Port Dover , ON Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searching View Post
Adventure AS: When using the "Warn" brand disconnects you mentioned to charge the Trailer battery from the idling TV, why are you using the longer (20 ft) cables which are expensive ($200 plus), rather than the 90 inch cable kit which is less than half the price, about $85? Does the 20 ft cable kit contain something important? You mentioned a battery isolator? Is that the solenoid?
When I jump start the kid's car from the truck, I don't use a battery isolator. We just use cables. Or is the use of a battery isolator is something that becomes important because one is leaving the batteries connected over an extended period of time?
Thanks.
I used the long kit to reach the rear of the TV so the connection is close to the trailer. BTW I also have the short cable in the grille too. I also have a 2 gauge booster cable (with large alligator clips) that has Andersen quick-connection.

The isolator is only needed if the cable is left connected overnight for use with remote start.
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:12 PM   #32
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Bountiful , UT
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Simply joining this group to learn more about this topic. I am not an electrician so all this information is new to me. Thanks for the education
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