Solar upgrades on 2008 Safari SE 25'

[GEON]

Hi All,


I am "upgrading" from a Basecamp 20x to a 25' Safari SE. I put extra solar on the Basecamp but didn't upgrade to lithium batteries.


I *really* wanted the new Tradewind, but 150K seemed a bit much for that trailer.



SO... Roll your own! I would like to do a significant solar/power upgrade to the Safari. Solar/Inverter/Charger/Lithium.



The 2008 trailer I found is in great shape and I look forward to doing the work myself. I will be picking it up in the next week or so.



Any advice from the "hive mind"? How many panels can I realistically fit on the roof? Is there a preferred place for the roof penetration to get solar wiring through? I want the batteries to be "inside", where have others put the electronics/batteries? Have any of you gone through this effort?



The trailer has no solar on it and I am not sure solar was an option in 2008...



I've been following explorist.life for a while, they have great how-to videos and seem like great folks. Any other recommendations?


TIA and happy holidays!

[JeffKim]

Congratulations! Some random thoughts:

You are diving into the bottomless rabbit hole. There are tons of options and battery and solar technology keeps evolving. Generally upgrading to solar and lithium is the way to go. I'd first try and figure out how much power consumption you anticipate and your style of camping. Judging from the Basecamp you will likely be unplugged pretty often, but then you don't have a 12V refrigerator (a big drain with newer campers), so your power requirements are likely not that great unless you have a lot of other loads (computers, Starlink, etc.). Once you know that then you can plan out your solar and battery needs.

You can do a search (Explorist is a really good resource) in the the forums and there are lots of approaches. I'd standardize on Victron equipment with Smart (bluetooth) since it all plays together and they make it easy to monitor your system.

There are a ton of lithium battery options. There are some very good cheap ones that aren't Battleborn and my philosophy is that for the few duty cycles our camper batteries go through, I bought cheap but with a good reputation. Li-Time, Weize, SOK, and Epoch come to mind. I have HQST and they are doing well after two seasons.

I also moved our 4X100Ah batteries inside and freed up the battery box as you are considering. I like that there is a lot more space for outsized batteries and to add other components like a battery cutoff switch and routing the inverter, solar controllers, through a Lynx fusebox. It was a matter of pulling the old cabling back through the cable hole and redoing the wiring. I'm not super-handy but it was very doable with the right tools and planning.

Rooftop panels are good but I wouldn't necessarily go hog wild since often the exposure on the roof isn't always the greatest. I'd also get some external plug in panels that can be moved around. We get more power from these than the roof. If you go with two banks of panels you will need two solar controllers.

Maybe the wisest approach is go incrementally and see. But adding lithium will be the biggest bang for the buck as a start. Once you sort out your batteries, you'll need a lithium compatible charger. We have a Victron 50A that works great and as I said it plays with the other Victron equipment. But there are cheaper ones that work well. I'd advise against WFCO, I didn't have very good luck with it. A Victron Smart shunt is necessary if you go that route. Some people rely on their native Bluetooth battery monitor without one but some sort of battery monitor is necessary with lithium.

Last I'm sure everyone has an opinion, but take your time and wait and see what the layout is in your "new" trailer. That might determine your options.

[ghaag]

This information is a bit dated, but this is what I did on my 2007 25' Safari in 2018.

[sfranklin]

If you boondock, that RV, with lead/acid batteries can last at least 7-8 days on the twin batteries. It is true that for nearly 25 years Aistreams have either been prewired for solar, or have had solar installed from the factory. If you change the converter and swap out the batteries to lithium (not sure a 2008 battery box is large enough) that could let you out off-grid for a few more days than that.

For what a solar system would cost, unless you stay off grid for 2 weeks at a time, it might not be money well spent. If you have a 12v compressor fridge, I would say for sure if you do any boondocking you need better power. Even with 300w or more of solar up top, many that boondock are in wooded/rustic areas that block out some or most of the direct sunlight.

I'm not suggesting you abandon the idea, just that you really do an honest cost benefit on it. You might find the return is not as great as you'd think as that trailer is not a power hog by any means.

I have 300w of factory installed solar with a 12v compressor fridge, and I am thinking if I boondock, even with full sun I will be prob not be able to stay off grid fore more than 4-5 days and that is if I have good direct sunlight, which many times when I boondock, I don't.

Now if you stay mostly at campgrounds that have electric hookups, adding solar is mostly a waste.

[ckronvall]

WE had 4 95W Zamp Solar panels added to the roof of our 2008 23' Safari SE this fall. Been maintaining charge while sitting in our S Central WA driveway. Paid a bit more than had originally envisioned by having Ultimate Airstream in Portland do the work, but they are a 1st class outfit.

[27ftToaster]

Good advice from JeffKim and others. You truly need to look at what your "style" of camping/traveling is going to be. Do you stay at an individual boondock site for a couple of days? A week? Two weeks? Are you traveling between sites for several hours on travel days? What part of the continent will you be traveling? For instance we found we could stay in Utah on solar indefinitely. But as you go north, the solar efficiency decreases dramatically. Summer vs Winter, and Clear sky vs Cloudy are significant factors as well. Canada/Alaska? Solar alone just won't cut it, unless you are extremely conservative on your use. Will you just be using lights and a phone charger? Do you want to use your microwave, hair dryer, or other appliances >1000w? Consider a Multiplus II. Will you be using Starlink? Gen 3 or Mini? Our biggest power hog is Starlink Gen 3. But we love being connected and researching and discovering where we are going or where we have been. (Pro tip: install your Starlink in your Tow Vehicle so you have it with you on the road and when not at camp. Plus no need to set up/tear down daily. Power it from your lithium batteries)

I say all that to let you know that by far, my best return on investment is my 60 amp DC to DC charging setup from my truck as we travel. We have 400ah of Lithium and in a few hours of driving can bring the batteries back up to full. Regardless of the location, weather, the shade of the trees, or the season of the year! The 380w of panels on the roof add to the charge while parked or driving. That is good. But since they don't point at the sun, and the a/c shroud can often shade a small portion of the panel, so it produces zero. Whereas my 100w portable panel, if I point it at the sun, it will often produce as much as the 380w on the roof. But you need to move it throughout the day to keep it pointed. Plus it can tend to blow over with a strong gust of wind!

Yes, it is an adventure and worth doing it yourself. Because only you will be around to fix it and tweak it as needed. Go plenty big on your wire gauge so that you can upgrade in the future.

We just completed a 22k miles, 160 night trip to Alaska/Artic Ocean/Yukon/NWT/Western US with 130 nights without hookups. Pretty much paid for our upgrades in one trip. But more importantly was that we were able to stay in the most incredible locations! Beautiful snow covered mountains, glaciers, and rivers! Not having somebody 25 feet out your window is another plus. Go for your upgrade. Travel the countryside. Stay in the wilderness. Be adventurous. Make memories. Get a scratch or a ding. Don't hold back!

[GEON]

Thanks for all your replies.


I know this is a rabbit hole (solar/lithium) and part of the reason I wanted an older trailer is to be able to upgrade it for this purpose.


I *do* boondock and last time was 2 weeks (at burningman) with no water/power/dump station. I do have a generator (but I don't like using it!) My current trailer has a compressor fridge and I had another chest compressor fridge (kept all my food frozen) running for that time. I have 300w of panels and AGM batteries. I have some flex panels that I use to augment the roof panels.


I hope to set up the "new" trailer to easily handle this kind of event and to stay off grid.



I struggle a little with "rightsizing" the system, either small enough to just run charging electronics etc or enough to run the A/C. The current trailer has a microwave/compressor fridge, the "new" trailer has propane fridge and stove, so power use is much less.


Still researching and very much appreciate all your insights!

[richard5933]

My 1994 Excella 25-ft is a little older but probably about the same roof footprint. I was able to easily fit four Renogy 100w panels on the roof, and could probably have put a 5th if being able to walk up there wasn't a priority.

In my opinion the factory pre-wiring for solar is not adequate so I ran my own. The panels are 2S2P configuration which meant larger wires would help with the amp carrying capacity. To bring the wires inside I used two wire glands mounted towards the top of the fridge vent vertical curbing, and then ran the wires down the side wall of the fridge cavity. The cables then follow behind the cabinet in the front room and terminate behind the couch at the front of the trailer where our batteries are kept.

I've got two 100Ah Battleborn batteries, a Progress converter/charger, and a 2,000w inverter. Solar charge controller is a Victron.

[Life is a Highway]

I personally don't like solar on the roof wind ours came with 2 panels I added a third Zamp when Ronnie Dennis did our upgrade. I'm talented but I also know my limitations and like a place to return to for advise warranty and repair. He must have 50 Zamp 90 brand new panels he has taken off new trailers.

We have a system most would like. 3 GC3 270’s 60 amps of Victron DC-DC a Victron 50 amp 3000 with Cerbo GX Touch. A Victron 712 , Digital Multi Control Panel and Victron Solar control basically a home built TradeWind.

If I had to do it all over again I would have the 3 panels one GC3 and Ronnie or Vinnie install of the AirKrafters Airstream on board Generator systems.

[27ftToaster]

Originally Posted by GEON

I struggle a little with "rightsizing" the system, either small enough to just run charging electronics etc or enough to run the A/C. The current trailer has a microwave/compressor fridge, the "new" trailer has propane fridge and stove, so power use is much less.

!

My opinion: Once you do the math, you'll find the A/C is a huge load! You would want 600-800ah minimum of Lithium. Then to get those charged back up for tomorrow's hot day, you'll not achieve that with solar. Also realize that when you pull that much amperage from your batteries, and through the Multiplus, you create a lot of additional heat inside wherever you have the battery bank and Multiplus. That works against the cooling you are trying to accomplished.

Option A: On those days you must use a/c, use the generator.
Option B: DC-DC Charger with your truck idling for hours.

[Taco Joe]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

Congratulations! Some random thoughts:

You are diving into the bottomless rabbit hole. There are tons of options and battery and solar technology keeps evolving. Generally upgrading to solar and lithium is the way to go. I'd first try and figure out how much power consumption you anticipate and your style of camping. Judging from the Basecamp you will likely be unplugged pretty often, but then you don't have a 12V refrigerator (a big drain with newer campers), so your power requirements are likely not that great unless you have a lot of other loads (computers, Starlink, etc.). Once you know that then you can plan out your solar and battery needs.

You can do a search (Explorist is a really good resource) in the the forums and there are lots of approaches. I'd standardize on Victron equipment with Smart (bluetooth) since it all plays together and they make it easy to monitor your system.

There are a ton of lithium battery options. There are some very good cheap ones that aren't Battleborn and my philosophy is that for the few duty cycles our camper batteries go through, I bought cheap but with a good reputation. Li-Time, Weize, SOK, and Epoch come to mind. I have HQST and they are doing well after two seasons.

I also moved our 4X100Ah batteries inside and freed up the battery box as you are considering. I like that there is a lot more space for outsized batteries and to add other components like a battery cutoff switch and routing the inverter, solar controllers, through a Lynx fusebox. It was a matter of pulling the old cabling back through the cable hole and redoing the wiring. I'm not super-handy but it was very doable with the right tools and planning.

Rooftop panels are good but I wouldn't necessarily go hog wild since often the exposure on the roof isn't always the greatest. I'd also get some external plug in panels that can be moved around. We get more power from these than the roof. If you go with two banks of panels you will need two solar controllers.

Maybe the wisest approach is go incrementally and see. But adding lithium will be the biggest bang for the buck as a start. Once you sort out your batteries, you'll need a lithium compatible charger. We have a Victron 50A that works great and as I said it plays with the other Victron equipment. But there are cheaper ones that work well. I'd advise against WFCO, I didn't have very good luck with it. A Victron Smart shunt is necessary if you go that route. Some people rely on their native Bluetooth battery monitor without one but some sort of battery monitor is necessary with lithium.

Last I'm sure everyone has an opinion, but take your time and wait and see what the layout is in your "new" trailer. That might determine your options.

I'd say go down the rabbit hole if you enjoy doing things yourself.

I’ve done my lithium/solar upgrade incrementally as budget and time allows. All parts keep getting cheaper and better. On each upgrade cycle, most items are either smaller, lighter, better performing, or have more features than the last time I’ve purchased a similar item. As I’ve replaced parts, they were repurposed for use on other parts of our property.

Most of my parts come from Renogy, with a few from Victron. I added the largest rigid solar panels that would fit in the various open spots on the roof.

I like having solar panels on the roof. If I ever have hailstorm damage on top, or something fall on the roof, I’d rather replace a $100 solar panel than deal with dents on the roof.

Starting with stock 2012 23FB I did the following upgrades.
1. Upgraded inverter from 1000 to 2000 watts.
2. Added 2 100-Watt rigid solar panels to roof and a 20-amp HQST MPPT charge controller.
3. Replaced deep cycle AGM with 2 100Ah Renogy smart lithium batteries.
4. Moved lithium batteries from outside to inside and replaced the stock house charge controller with a lithium compatible one. Added shunt, bluetooth module and LCD display.
5. Added a 200Ah Renogy smart lithium battery under bed.
6. Added 1 50-Watt rigid solar panel to roof.
7. Added a 180-watt rigid solar panel to the roof and upgraded to 40-amp HQST MPPT charge controller with LCD display.
8. Replaced 50-Watt solar panel with 80-Watt solar panel and moved 50-watt panel to shed.
9. Added extra 12-volt USB outlets in various locations. Added a Peplink router that accepts multiple internet connections (Starlink and hotspot), with automatic failover.
10. Replaced 40-amp MPPT charge controller with dual 30-amp dual input DC to DC charger with MPPT and temperature sensor. Added a dedicated charging circuit from truck alternator.
11. Added a Renogy One smart LCD display with remote monitoring. Added door sensor and smart outlet that talks to the Renogy One display that can be monitored and controlled remotely.
12. Added a dedicated 48-volt circuit for Starlink using a POE injector, so I can run the Starlink with the inverter off.
13. Upgraded charge controller/inverter from AIMS Power 2000 watt to Renogy 3000-watt smart controller with temperature sensor.
14. Rewired batteries to improve charge and output balancing.
15. Starlink moved from flagpole temporary mount to roof mount to avoid setting up at each campground.
16. Added 50Ah Renogy lithium battery which will eventually be repurposed for a DIY UPS in my office.

Current upgrades:
1. Add a 100-watt Renogy flexible solar panel on top of the air conditioner cover.
2. Complete a secondary 48-volt POE circuit for Starlink and outlet so I can move the Starlink dish if the trailer is shaded.

Future upgrades:
1. Add exterior solar panel input for 200-watt portable unit.
2. Replace smart TV with 12-volt model.
3. More window sensors and a home-built security system using a Raspberry Pi and Arduino boards.
4. Replace 50 Ah battery with 2 100 Ah batteries.
5. Add smart start to air conditioner.
6. Add 2 switches and related circuits so I can run the air conditioner or microwave off the battery bank.

Additionally, I have a 100-watt flexible panel mounted on the roof of my truck’s shell, a charge controller/ inverter and portable fridge/freezer mounted inside on a slide. I carry a Bluetti PowerStation and Victron 110-volt universal battery charger/conditioner for miscellaneous purposes. If the refrigerator battery or Bluetti are low, I can charge them at a campground with the Victron charger.

[trailerKat]

No it is NOT true that Airstream has been pre-wiring or installing solar for 25 years.Ours is a 2013 International Signature CCD, one model down from the Classic at the time. There was no pre-wiring then. It didn't even come with USB charge ports. Flooded cell lead acid batteries and a dumb (single stage charger) were OEM equipment. We bought it on 2016 and have since added solar, lithium etc. to make it a boondocking dream unit. You do need to know your travel style before you do the mods.

[JohnTF]

1st thing is " MATH " gather data on what your consumption maybe .
Next is how to make you consumption as efficient as possible .
You mention air conditioning , - that is both a yes & no --- large consumption depending on how hot & how long you want to run .
The way I look at it - solar --- how fast you want / need to replace consumption ?
One small panel will replace any consumption --- but takes longer ?
So the amount of space needed for enough panels is for most people & their wants are not possible --- so choosing for lesser wants ?
Learn Ohms Law !
Under ideal conditions , the sun produces about 1,000 watts per square meter , general quality panels are about 20% efficient --- so your not going to get more than about 200 watts per sq meter .
I would suggest to avoid mounting flexible panels , they will radiate heat into the trailer , and their life is far less than glass aluminum panels - then an advantage you rarely here --- with at least 1/2" gap from roof to bottom of panel --- needed to help cool panels --- also put shade on roof / cooler trailer less air conditioning
As for where to run the power / cables in - I like the idea of using the fridge vent --- instead of making a new hole in roof .

[sfranklin]

Originally Posted by trailerKat

No it is NOT true that Airstream has been pre-wiring or installing solar for 25 years.Ours is a 2013 International Signature CCD, one model down from the Classic at the time. There was no pre-wiring then. It didn't even come with USB charge ports. Flooded cell lead acid batteries and a dumb (single stage charger) were OEM equipment. We bought it on 2016 and have since added solar, lithium etc. to make it a boondocking dream unit. You do need to know your travel style before you do the mods.

Do some research, most Airstream trailers have been solar prewired before the factory started adding the panels themselves. My early 2000s rig was prewired and clearly identified in the fridge compartment. Here is one thread that talks about it.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f448/solar-prewire-finally-discovered-228735.html

[x1MAJOR1x]

Originally Posted by GEON

Hi All,


I am "upgrading" from a Basecamp 20x to a 25' Safari SE. I put extra solar on the Basecamp but didn't upgrade to lithium batteries.


I *really* wanted the new Tradewind, but 150K seemed a bit much for that trailer.



SO... Roll your own! I would like to do a significant solar/power upgrade to the Safari. Solar/Inverter/Charger/Lithium.



The 2008 trailer I found is in great shape and I look forward to doing the work myself. I will be picking it up in the next week or so.



Any advice from the "hive mind"? How many panels can I realistically fit on the roof? Is there a preferred place for the roof penetration to get solar wiring through? I want the batteries to be "inside", where have others put the electronics/batteries? Have any of you gone through this effort?



The trailer has no solar on it and I am not sure solar was an option in 2008...



I've been following explorist.life for a while, they have great how-to videos and seem like great folks. Any other recommendations?


TIA and happy holidays!

Hi I have a 23' SE, i put the batteries upfront, under the bench, behind the hitch where the battery cables run in. Where the busbar and distribution block were, as well as the solenoid, you know that Store/Use button relay. I put in 2 LiTime 500Ah batteries and upgraded my AC to a 12v, as well as my refrigerator, to be less dependent on the inverter, and more efficient in general. I'm putting up 4 solar panels two 'long ones' that will run on the sides of the roof, CIGS Panels by BougeRV. Two more in between the AC and rear vent and the other between AC and front MaxxAir Fan. A total of 460Watts. I also, have a cable running to the hitch where the batteries used to be to be able to plug in with portable panels for an extra boos of wattage. My MPPT is 60 Amps so it can handle 900 watts total in a 12v configuration. I'm taking off the Wineguard antenna by the way. I will probably run the cable down the refrigerator area which is driver side on my rig, thats where i ran the 12v AC cable thru. Hope this helps.

[x1MAJOR1x]

Hi I have a 23' SE, i put the batteries upfront, under the bench, behind the hitch where the battery cables run in. Where the busbar and distribution block were, as well as the solenoid, you know that Store/Use button relay. I put in 2 LiTime 500Ah batteries and upgraded my AC to a 12v, as well as my refrigerator, to be less dependent on the inverter, and more efficient in general. I'm putting up 4 solar panels two 'long ones' that will run on the sides of the roof, CIGS Panels by BougeRV. Two more in between the AC and rear vent and the other between AC and front MaxxAir Fan. A total of 460Watts. I also, have a cable running to the hitch where the batteries used to be to be able to plug in with portable panels for an extra boos of wattage. My MPPT is 60 Amps so it can handle 900 watts total in a 12v configuration. I'm taking off the Wineguard antenna by the way. I will probably run the cable down the refrigerator area which is driver side on my rig, thats where i ran the 12v AC cable thru. Hope this helps.

[rodsterinfl]

Hey Geon,

Congrats on the ‘08 Airstream. I have an ‘06 and did my own solar. If yours is anything like mine you DO have solar prewiring. My floorplan is probably a bit different but here is the lay of the land per se. Somewhere in your model there is a place where the trailer wiring comes into the camper. Mine is in the front behind the sofa with the DC stuff all there. The charger converter is in the back in the bedroom. At the front there was wiring for a solar monitor cat 5 (wall) and behind the fridge the yellow and green wires (outside access panel) My monitor wiring other end was above the kitchen counter near the tank monitor system. I accessed it behind the tank monitoring unit. You can find out where yours is by looking in the model wiring in the owners manual- section G-10.

I agree with JeffKim as you can go nuts with additions and massive systems and lots of cash!

I kept mine simple. I too have jacks I installed on the sides of my battery box for remote solar suitcases. I also mounted some panels on the roof. My goal is meager, to operate basic equipment for three days. Basic as in TV, audio, coffee pot, chargers, lights. I have two lithium Lion batteries 210 amp hours and 450 watts of solar. (250 roof and 200 portable). So far it has been more than enough, however, my calculations for adding a Dometic 12V fridge in the future find it to be just enough. The third day might be a squeeze with fridge but I also have two backups- a large lithium BLUETTI portable power station and my truck with the 7.2KW generator. I do not have the fridge yet and will not get it until I have to but I believe I am ready.

I have not stayed boondocking more than three days yet so it meets my goal. I was told that if I ever do get a DC fridge to do the initial chilling before I leave to save on battery load. Beyond this I do not see a justification to spend a lot of money on solar because I can use a generator to simply charge up for another few days if need be or run it for days on the truck if needed. I did buy a Victron inverter and my lithiums have built in monitoring with Bluetooth.

BTW I want to share my info on the F150 7.2kw running a 30 amp. While it can provide 58 amps my Airstream is 30 amps here is a bit of info. THe truck runs about 3-5 min per hour while providing 2800ish watts for AC and everything else and the idling truck is quiet. I do not know the exact consumption of fuel but it was not much for 12 hours of operation while in a parking lot overnight.

[rodsterinfl]

Forgot to mention, propane is your friend as far as fridges go. The efficiency is way beyond the 12 volt as far as energy usage though the temp varies and time to cool is longer.

[GEON]

Hi All,


Well I thought I would show my efforts since my first post! I decided to go down the rabbit hole of solar and it is up and running. I put 600w of solar panels on the roof and 920ah of batteries in. Two solar chargers so I can also use a ground array too. I selected Epoch batteries and these are impressive - I mounted the guage and the master battery OFF by the door, and the touch screen on the cabinet above.


Super happy how things turned out. everything fit cleanly under the bed. I mounted the equipment on a piece of plywood and used a cable channel to try to keep things a bit neater.


I got energetic and replaced both ceiling fans and the bathroom and shower fans too!


Anyway - I appreciate all the comments. I can run the A/C for probably 10 hours off the batteries (I haven't tried it for more than an hour so far) but I plan on putting a more efficient A/C in soon too.



GEON

[GEON]

Has anyone been able to have the tank levels from the 2008 era airstreams to display on the touch display/cerbo gx?


I know that Sealevel systems can do it - but that means getting to the grey and black tanks to place the sensors, wiring and upgrading the panel to the sealevel one.


Please let me know if you have any info for the 2008 systems? My trailer *does* have rj11's to plug in the tanks (I see the wires strewn around by the pump...) so it doesn't have the separate wire sensors like the older ones (right?).


GEON